Is criminalising membership in the banned group Islam4UK really necessary...

[Santerme]

jimmy two times Wrote:

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> Re-open the internment camps on the Isle of Man

> and chuck em all in there. They're enemies of the

> state.

I remember how well that worked in Northern Ireland!!

May as well have opened recruiting offices in the high streets of every town and city!

[huncamunca]

this one caught mine

From Guardian lite sunday rag

[Ladymuck]

huncamunca Wrote:

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> this one caught mine

>

> From Guardian lite sunday rag

Thanks huncamunca - I hadn't seen that one. I quite like the way he uses his comic talent to provide a smattering of light relief to such a weighty topic.

[flapjackdavey]

david_carnell Wrote:

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> Islam4UK have a habit of announcing impressively

> antagonistic events which don't come off. I

> suspect they sort of mean them to come off,but

> their organisational skills are very poor. They

> recently announced a major conference of the role

> of Islam (or some such) and put stickers up all

> over London, but the event didn't happen because

> they couldn't attract suitable speakers,and hadn't

> thought of arranging that first. They in turn are

> followers of Bakri Mohammed, who once famously

> arranged a stunt in which verses of the Koran were

> put in envelopes, tied to balloons, and released

> in Trafalgar Square. The trouble was, at no-one

> point in all the

> putting-of-verses-into-envelopes-and-tying-them-to

> -balloons procedure did anyone in his group take

> note of the fact the resultant unit was heavier

> than air, so when they hundreds of balloons were

> released they just stayed on the ground.

>

> Choudary, on the other hand, is full of hot wind.

piss up .... brewery ?

[Magpie]

Santerme - actually I think the consensus on Multiculturalism has collapsed. The policy has effectively led to mono-culturalism - ie pockets of individual cultures that fail to interact with each other and with the mainstream.

I prefer an integrationist model - ie freedom of worship, belief, culture, but acceptance that there is a dominant British culture, and immigrants and established minority communities are expected to integrate with that in the public sphere.

The likes of Choudray receiving benefits may be as a result of his citizenship but that doesn't mean that his entitlement to said benefits should not be scruitinised. Why for example, as a qualifed lawyer is he not earning an income? Is he actively seeking employment? etc. Next, foreign citizens that are openly hostile to Britain should be deported - its called acting in the national interest.

[reggie]

Magpie

I assume you are British. If I am openly hostile to you does that mean I have to leave the country?

How do you measure hostility and how do you define Britain?

About half of this country feel openly hostile to Tony Blair over the Iraq war, does that fit your definiton?

Something to listen to while we are on the subject

[Ladymuck]

reggie Wrote:

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> Something to listen to while we are on the subject

Ha ha...very good...thanks for that reggie

[northlondoner]

Santerme, I respect what you say -especially as one who has fought for his country.But is it safe for any democracy to allow free reign to a tiny group who would threaten the democratic rights of the rest of us? I believe that test could also be applied in the case of Nick Griffin.

Magpie, much of what you say also makes sense - but that coersive tone leaves a slightly sour taste in the mouth.

[Santerme]

northlondoner Wrote:

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> Santerme, I respect what you say -especially as

> one who has fought for his country.But is it safe

> for any democracy to allow free reign to a tiny

> group who would threaten the democratic rights of

> the rest of us? I believe that test could also be

> applied in the case of Nick Griffin.

>

> Magpie, much of what you say also makes sense -

> but that coersive tone leaves a slightly sour

> taste in the mouth.

I would argue it is essential we allow freedom of speech within the law, we already have certain restictions on the freedoms we believe we enjoy...

I am not sure I feel threatened by this group in any way, shape or form, they are a marginal grouping on the extreme fringe, isolated even from other Muslims

I, personally, have a completely negative emotional response to them, but I would never deny their right to lawful expression.

I would give Nick Griffin copious amounts of airtime, he is entirely capable of destroying the BNP single handedly!

[jimmy two times]

That's why this mob should be put on Question Time like Griffin was. They can shoot themselves in the foot in front of millions of viewers.

[????]

It's an been debated on here extensively but NG on Question Time was a wasted opportunity to show his stupidity thanks to the Student Politics/SWP demo manner in which the BBC and audience reacted...it just let him and the BNP trot out all their stuff about London not being england etc etc

[northlondoner]

Jimmy, I worry about this approach to handling anti-democratic elements. Surely exposure to a wider audience does only three things: 1. Gives wider exposure to hateful and damaging propoganda - possibly seducing those already vulnerable to "radicalisation" 2. Gives these views a kind of credence - being broadcast on an institution like the BBC lends them a specious reflected respectability 3. Inflames opinion, causes offence and heightens tensions.

I think the root of my unease is the presumption of moral equivalence - ie all views are have the same moral right to be heard - the same moral weight, as it were.

I don;t think that presumption is right. Not all views are equally deserving of a fair hearing.

Is that totalitarian? Not sure.

[jimmy two times]

Ok point taken. Can we just kick them out of the country then as they pose a threat to National Security.

[northlondoner]

Wise Guy! (See what I did there?)

[Magpie]

Reggie - I am British, and as I said in my post I believe that the British culture should be considered dominant. This means a legal system based on common law, and with social and morality issues judged by a Judeo-Christian inheritance, with a representative parlimentary democracy as the means of government.

Therefore the advocation of the establishment of Sharia Law and/or an Islamic state is entirely hostile to a British way of life and British culture. A foreign national who advocates such an approach through the means of an offensive protest should at least be monitored by the authorities and, if evidence found of illegal behaviour, deported.

[reggie]

Magpie

It may be that some of your views are entirely hostile to my British way of life and culture.

What are you going to do about that?

[SteveT]

We are gonna deport you reggie, have you got your passport ready, we're gonna make you eat it, on tv.

Soooo wotcha gonna do about that?

[reggie]

Luckily I have the law on my side.

Try changing the law.

[SteveT]

I have yet to find it beneficial to my cause, to have the law on my side reggie.

[reggie]

I'm confused.

Surely if you had the law on your side then it would be beneficial to you.

[Ladymuck]

reggie Wrote:

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> Try changing the law.

Ha! Until today, I would have laughed (in agreement) at that comment - given the process/length of time usually involved for changing UK law. However, since the UK Government got their Home Office lawyers to draw up the necessary parliamentary order so that the ban against Islam4UK could take place within days, I am not laughing now. Oooh no, not at all.

[reggie]

LM

Yes I was aware of the irony of my last post..but only once Id posted.

BTW how about these as new ideas for group names:

Sharialaw-u-like or maybe RADICALMUSLIMS-R-US

I cant wait

[reggie]

Stop press

"I cant believe its not Sharia"

[Ladymuck]

reggie Wrote:

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> BTW how about these as new ideas for group names:

> Sharialaw-u-like or maybe RADICALMUSLIMS-R-US

> I cant wait

Behave yourself!!

*grins*

[SteveT]

Shhh careful what you say reggie, they might put one of those things that they put on Salmon Rushdee...........Do'h