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The East Dulwich Forum
Would you recommend your East Dulwich doctor, dentist or butcher?
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messageopen letter to David Cameron's parents
Posted by ironjawcannon 12 August, 2011 13:36

This was sent to me, don't know who wrote it but I though it was worth sharing......


Subject: An Open Letter to David Cameron’s Parents



Dear Mr & Mrs Cameron,

Why did you never take the time to teach your child basic morality?

As a young man, he was in a gang that regularly smashed up private property. We know that you were absent parents who left your child to be brought up by a school rather than taking responsibility for his behaviour yourselves. The fact that he became a delinquent with no sense of respect for the property of others can only reflect that fact that you are terrible, lazy human beings who failed even in teaching your children the difference between right and wrong. I can only assume that his contempt for the small business owners of Oxford is indicative of his wider values.

Even worse, your neglect led him to fall in with a bad crowd.

There’s Michael Gove, whose wet-lipped rage was palpable on Newsnight last night. This is the Michael Gove who confused one of his houses with another of his houses in order to avail himself of £7,000 of the taxpayers’ money to which he was not entitled (or £13,000, depending on which house you think was which).

Or Hazel Blears, who was interviewed in full bristling peahen mode for almost all of last night. She once forgot which house she lived in, and benefited to the tune of £18,000. At the time she said it would take her reputation years to recover. Unfortunately not.

But, of course, this is different. This is just understandable confusion over the rules of how many houses you are meant to have as an MP. This doesn’t show the naked greed of people stealing plasma tellies.

Unless you’re Gerald Kaufman, who broke parliamentary rules to get £8,000 worth of 40-inch, flat screen, Bang and Olufsen TV out of the taxpayer.

Or Ed Vaizey, who got £2,000 in antique furniture ‘delivered to the wrong address’. Which is fortunate, because had that been the address they were intended for, that would have been fraud.

Or Jeremy Hunt, who broke the rules to the tune of almost £20,000 on one property and £2,000 on another. But it’s all right, because he agreed to pay half of the money back. Not the full amount, it would be absurd to expect him to pay back the entire sum that he took and to which he was not entitled. No, we’ll settle for half. And, as in any other field, what might have been considered embezzlement of £22,000 is overlooked. We know, after all, that David Cameron likes to give people second chances.

Fortunately, we have the Met Police to look after us. We’ll ignore the fact that two of its senior officers have had to resign in the last six weeks amid suspicions of widespread corruption within the force.

We’ll ignore Andy Hayman, who went for champagne dinners with those he was meant to be investigating, and then joined the company on leaving the Met.

Of course, Mr and Mrs Cameron, your son is right. There are parts of society that are not just broken, they are sick. Riddled with disease from top to bottom.

Just let me be clear about this (It’s a good phrase, Mr and Mrs Cameron, and one I looted from every sentence your son utters, just as he looted it from Tony Blair), I am not justifying or minimising in any way what has been done by the looters over the last few nights. What I am doing, however, is expressing shock and dismay that your son and his friends feel themselves in any way to be guardians of morality in this country.

Can they really, as 650 people who have shown themselves to be venal pygmies, moral dwarves at every opportunity over the last 20 years, bleat at others about ‘criminality’. Those who decided that when they broke the rules (the rules they themselves set) they, on the whole wouldn’t face the consequences of their actions?

Are they really surprised that this country’s culture is swamped in greed, in the acquisition of material things, in a lust for consumer goods of the most base kind? Really?

Let’s have a think back: cash-for-questions; Bernie Ecclestone; cash-for-access; Mandelson’s mortgage; the Hinduja passports; Blunkett’s alleged insider trading (and, by the way, when someone has had to resign in disgrace twice can we stop having them on television as a commentator, please?); the meetings on the yachts of oligarchs; the drafting of the Digital Economy Act with Lucian Grange; Byers’, Hewitt’s & Hoon’s desperation to prostitute themselves and their positions; the fact that Andrew Lansley (in charge of NHS reforms) has a wife who gives lobbying advice to the very companies hoping to benefit from the NHS reforms. And that list didn’t even take me very long to think of.

Our politicians are for sale and they do not care who knows it.

Oh yes, and then there’s the expenses thing. Widescale abuse of the very systems they designed, almost all of them grasping what they could while they remained MPs, to build their nest egg for the future at the public’s expense. They even now whine on Twitter about having their expenses claims for getting back to Parliament while much of the country is on fire subject to any examination. True public servants.

The last few days have revealed some truths, and some heartening truths. The fact that the riotcleanup crews had organised themselves before David Cameron even made time for a public statement is heartening. The fact that local communities came together to keep their neighbourhoods safe when the police failed is heartening. The fact that there were peace vigils being organised (even as the police tried to dissuade people) is heartening.

There is hope for this country. But we must stop looking upwards for it. The politicians are the ones leading the charge into the gutter.

David Cameron was entirely right when he said: “It is a complete lack of responsibility in parts of our society, people allowed to think that the world owes them something, that their rights outweigh their responsibilities, and that their actions do not have consequences.”

He was more right than he knew.

And I blame the parents.

messageRe: open letter to David Cameron's parents
Posted by silverfox 12 August, 2011 13:55

Interesting how the reference to the riots suggests this letter is contemporary.

The writer is obviously unaware of the death of David Cameron's father (widely covered in the news earlier this year) which makes him or her look rather foolish.

messageRe: open letter to David Cameron's parents
Posted by Loz 12 August, 2011 14:50

silverfox Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The writer is obviously unaware of the death of David Cameron's father (widely covered in the news
> earlier this year) which makes him or her look rather foolish.

I noticed that. I thought it made the writer look really quite heartless.

But I think this is the important line:
Quote:
Our politicians are for sale and they do not care who knows it.

Who appoints our politicians? We do. We are the ones that re-elected all those people listed. We are the ones that gave them the job. We are the ones that blindly vote for Labour/Tory/LibDem whatever the situation.

We should take some responsibility.

messageRe: open letter to David Cameron's parents
Posted by silverfox 12 August, 2011 15:11

in fairness Loz we elect our representatives on trust and if every candidate had to confess every skeleton in his or her cupboard we probably wouldn't have any candidates at all. But we do expect them to act with propriety when they are in office.

The anonymous writer of the article over-labours the point that there is an element of dishonesty and wrong doing at all levels of society and some of the criticism of the behaviour and morals (or lack of) of the 'underclass' is a bit hypocritical.

messageRe: open letter to David Cameron's parents
Posted by Brendan 12 August, 2011 15:13

Well some of us do. Unfortunately this board* we're on has a few million other voting members who are idiots or @#$%& or both. They insist on employing sticky-fingered scum who I wouldn't give any more regard to than something I had to scrape off my shoe let alone give them responsibility for my children's future.

The point made in the OP is true though. The immorality of MP’s stealing from the public is no more justifiable than that of hooligans looting shops.

Both were sickeningly audacious orgies of theft committed by groups of people with a lack of accountability and an impertinent sense of entitlement.

*that being the one which decides who to employ to run the country.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit was 2011:08:12:15:25:29 by Brendan.

messageRe: open letter to David Cameron's parents
Posted by Loz 12 August, 2011 15:14

silverfox Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> in fairness Loz we elect our representatives on trust and if every candidate had to confess every
> skeleton in his or her cupboard we probably wouldn't have any candidates at all. But we do
> expect them to act with propriety when they are in office.

To an extent I agree, but most of the transgressions listed in the letter were known before the last election and still they were re-elected.

messageRe: open letter to David Cameron's parents
Posted by silverfox 12 August, 2011 15:25

True Loz. they were re-elected even though we knew they bent the rules (or they created the rules to benefit themselves). definitely a failing of our electoral system.

It would be difficult to explain this to some of the rioters who are about to get criminal records for being caught up in the excitement and frenzy of the looting where a defence of "I was only doing what everyone else was doing" will not wash with the courts.

messageRe: open letter to David Cameron's parents
Posted by binary_star 13 August, 2011 09:55

That letter is from Nathaniel Tapley's blog and his response about addressing the letter to both parents was:

Quote:
Nathaniel Tapley
Yes, I thought about that, but I think it underscores the point that whenever you blame someone’s parents you are doing so in utter ignorance of their situation. Whenever Cameron himself places the blame on parents, he has no idea if he’s talking to widows or the recently bereaved and yet he still feels quite confident in doing it. Yes, it’s crass and insensitive. It’s also exactly what he does.

Edited for clarity (quote attribution).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was 2011:08:13:20:37:56 by binary_star.

messageRe: open letter to David Cameron's parents
Posted by DJKillaQueen 13 August, 2011 20:12

Good post Binary. Puts a different perspective on things and one that was born out when some of the young people caught on camera rioting and looting were shopped by their own parents.

messageRe: open letter to David Cameron's parents
Posted by Otta 14 August, 2011 09:54

The reference to the Bullingdon Club is a bloody fair point.

messageRe: open letter to David Cameron's parents
Posted by MissNoodlesHats 15 August, 2011 04:31

Its a bloody great letter, shame the discussion got dragged into the EDF ministry of silly walks.

We can see from the government guided response for the SUN " shop a wally' that they have spun the argument away from themselves and the society they have created. Nathaniel nails it by highlighting what an amoral bunch of thieving individuals we have managing this country. They have been metaphorically looting us for years. Whanging on about fast track justice when they have kicked the whole of Murdoch's and News Internationals criminality into the long grass.

Maybe its blogs like these and the 10's of thousands that now exist that will circumnavigate the information put out by central government. This is where things will really get out of step and they won't see it coming before its to late.

Its interesting that the coalition put out the story about restricting people communicating by social media. Its as ridiculous as it is impossible, its panic stricken censorship but gives a clear indication about how nervous they are getting.

messageRe: open letter to David Cameron's parents
Posted by Loz 15 August, 2011 10:35

MissNoodlesHats Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We can see from the government guided response for
> the SUN " shop a wally' that they have spun the
> argument away from themselves and the society they
> have created.

I'm sorry, but I'll say it again - it is the society WE created. There is no 'they', no secret Illuminati running things - they tell us what we want to hear and we vote for them. Again and again.

Cameron has been in power 18 months and has actually done very little to change from the status quo. He doesn't need to - all three main parties are singing from the same slightly-centre-right song sheet and it's the song the electorate demands to hear.

> Maybe its blogs like these and the 10's of thousands that now exist that will circumnavigate the information put
> out by central government. This is where things will really get out of step and they won't see it coming before
> its to late.

Won't happen. All blogs are opinion and people will only sing the praises of a blog if it agrees with what they think. The riots have swung the electorate slightly more to the right - they are the blogs that will be read and believed.

messageRe: open letter to David Cameron's parents
Posted by MissNoodlesHats 16 August, 2011 04:01

You can say it all you like?! ..., but these views are frankly simplistic and wrong. Capital has created this society, big business over community.

As for ' won't happen', again overly simplistic and not thought out. It is actually happening , and has been for some time. The effects of which are global and affecting change.

messageRe: open letter to David Cameron's parents
Posted by Loz 16 August, 2011 10:21

MissNoodlesHats Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You can say it all you like?! ..., but these views are frankly simplistic and wrong. Capital has
> created this society, big business over community.

Sorry, but if we - as a country - wanted to change we could. We are going along with the ride because the current system offers us a carrot and we run for it.

Community can live hand in hand with capitalism. Community has been crushed by the size of cities where most people don't know their neighbour's name. This whole, weird notion that community is borne from government is one of those strange ideas of the far-left, where everything is centrally allocated and controlled.

> As for ' won't happen', again overly simplistic and not thought out. It is actually happening ,
> and has been for some time. The effects of which are global and affecting change.

I read this every day in the Guardian comments area - people convinced that some great revolution is rumbling. Blogs are hot air - any actual proof of this emerging utopia, MissNoodleHats?

messageRe: open letter to David Cameron's parents
Posted by mockney piers 16 August, 2011 10:35

"Community has been crushed by the size of cities where most people don't know their neighbour's name."

I don't think this is necessarily the case, people knew their neighbours 60 years ago when London was bigger than it is now.
I think community has been eroded because of the availability of credit. We can now move when once we couldn't. The communities died when everybody upped sticks and buggered off to Stevenage or Southend and were replaced by a transient stream of people.

Ironically, when you consider many accuse immigration and multicutlturalism or eroding communities, that's actually where you'll find the strongest communities.

Places like East Dulwich are just way stops for many, blow-in, live here for ten years, move to some home counties suburb where you'll barely know anyone outside of your childrens' friends circle despite a population of only 15,000!!

messageRe: open letter to David Cameron's parents
Posted by Huguenot 16 August, 2011 13:54

I'm not sure credit could have been the only influence on mobility.

Surely with a growing population you can't expect multiple family generations to continue to live within a stone's throw of each other? A disapora would have been forced upon society just by population density, whether or not they moved to rent or buy?

messageRe: open letter to David Cameron's parents
Posted by mockney piers 16 August, 2011 14:32

That's just it though. Our population hasn't grown significantly in that time.
Our prosperity has.

Perhaps it's affluence that erodes community; all that pull togetherness @#$%& off the moment you're alright jack.

messageRe: open letter to David Cameron's parents
Posted by Brendan 16 August, 2011 15:34

Or maybe people just realised that their neighbours were arseholes.

messageRe: open letter to David Cameron's parents
Posted by Loz 16 August, 2011 15:58

Just yours, Bren. Just yours... :o)

messageRe: open letter to David Cameron's parents
Posted by MissNoodlesHats 17 August, 2011 07:38

Yes Blogs can be full of hot air of course it depends on which contributors are doing most of the blowing.

"Blogs are hot air - any actual proof of this emerging utopia, MissNoodleHats?"

You have made a leap from the word Change to Utopia and then gone of the track with comments about the Guardian newspaper and left wing politics? .....this EDF ballon is definitely rising with that post !

messageRe: open letter to David Cameron's parents
Posted by MissNoodlesHats 17 August, 2011 08:01

You may have noticed that rioting and public disorder broke out across the UK last week, that the coalition are now talking about water cannons , rubber bullets and mass Curfews. The judiciary and handing down two 4 year sentences to two 20 year old's who set up a couple of facebook pages. The judge in his arrogance stated that they were involved in the 'UK's collective madness"? and news corps press has done a great job in helping the coalition turn it into 'shop a wally' festival.

The unspun reality is , one minute and without a seeming care in the world they were sunning themselves in Tuscany, Florida and who knows where else and next thing the UK relatively exploded. They have lost control, they have not got the resources to control it, everyone has seen it.

I suspect alienation is one of the things that contributes to eroded communities.

messageRe: open letter to David Cameron's parents
Posted by Loz 17 August, 2011 10:36

MissNoodlesHats Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Blogs are hot air - any actual proof of this emerging utopia, MissNoodleHats?"
>
> You have made a leap from the word Change to Utopia and then gone of the track with comments
> about the Guardian newspaper and left wing politics? .....this EDF ballon is definitely
> rising with that post !

OK, if it helps you answer the question... "Blogs are hot air - any actual proof of this emerging change, MissNoodleHats?"

messageRe: open letter to David Cameron's parents
Posted by MissNoodlesHats 17 August, 2011 12:46

Don't be ridiculous, here's a line from Bee Movie for you.

"Open your eyes, stick your head out the window"

messageRe: open letter to David Cameron's parents
Posted by Loz 17 August, 2011 13:35

[paxman_mode]
Look, if you can't answer the question, just say so - is there any actual proof of emerging change?
[/paxman_mode]

messageRe: open letter to David Cameron's parents
Posted by MissNoodlesHats 17 August, 2011 16:03

Loz , seriously do you not think you need your own thread - loz's of the beaten track dead end discussion thread.

Can I ask why you think that China, who are pretty advanced in terms of strategic thought as well as technology have built what can only be described as a pretty large wall around itself with regard to incoming and outgoing information traffic? Why don't you do the work and engage some thought then maybe your quotes will be less Pacman and more Paxman.

Lol

Back to the letter at hand, its bloody good but sadly the truth of it is somewhat lost in the irony. Personally I would have liked to have seen the audience of Question time slow hand clap them off the stage.

messageRe: open letter to David Cameron's parents
Posted by Loz 17 August, 2011 16:25

I'm starting to see a pattern - poor argument, resort to primary school-level ad hominem when questioned...

I think we should be adding MissNoodleHats to the AllForNun spotters thread.

messageRe: open letter to David Cameron's parents
Posted by MissNoodlesHats 17 August, 2011 18:06

Can I ask why you think that China, who are pretty advanced in terms of strategic thought as well as technology have built what can only be described as a pretty large wall around itself with regard to incoming and outgoing information traffic?

messageRe: open letter to David Cameron's parents
Posted by Loz 17 August, 2011 18:46

MissNoodlesHats Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Can I ask why you think that China, who are pretty advanced in terms of strategic thought as well as
> technology have built what can only be described as a pretty large wall around itself with regard
> to incoming and outgoing information traffic?

Ah, an attempt at a reverse Paxman. Good try, Allfornun, but sadly not effective this time.

China currently holds with the communist ideal of information control. They are especially worried about the information from western news streams, as the Beeb and the VOA, which carry information that the authorities deem to be not suitable for the populace. It is pretty obvious though, that as China opens up more and more to western trading and both business and leisure travel, this approach will be considered unsustainable in the longer term, as they will not only be forced to accept free flow of news and ideas (purely as it is virtually part and parcel of participation in a global market) but they will also discover that free speech is, in general, not a danger to effective government.

In other words, the question you ask is pretty irrelevant to your idea blogs have "effects of which are global and affecting (sic) change." as China is only one country (i.e. not global), blogs are a minor part of the target set of the Great Firewall of China and it is based on a paranoia rather than and actual power of the blog. Certainly a flow of ideas is a positive thing, and some grassroots ideas do make it to the big time, but if you are actually trying to say "The power of blogs is coming - tremble O Big Brother" then you are sadly mistaken.

Now if you had gone with Twitter and Facebook, you would have certainly had a case. But even then, they only generally have such power in single or a small number of unstable countries. Facebook campaigns in the UK no longer have any real effect and globally they've never really come off. Facebook is now just another marketing tool (notable by the easy way it is to 'like' something, but the 'unlike' is squirrelled away in a very hard to find place. You can't have all that advertising going unnoticed or turned off, now.)

Happy? We are a-wwayyyy off on a tangent from the OP, but for old time's sake, where is your proof that blogs have "effects of which are global and effecting change." (And I've even fixed your grammar.)

messageRe: open letter to David Cameron's parents
Posted by OtAcaciaRP.... 17 August, 2011 19:30

I do write well when I am happy and smile smiling smiley

messageRe: open letter to David Cameron's parents
Posted by MissNoodlesHats 17 August, 2011 21:48

Er ? What an earth, where an earth have you gone here, I think you fighting with a figment or your imagination ?

I only said that blogs , a part of the information super highway effect change. To deny that is rather like saying I don't need air to breath? Its so obvious it does not warrant this discussion.

Arab spring ? Libya ? Paris hilton !!

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