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The East Dulwich Forum
The Bishop, The EDT, The Great Exhibition, the Actress or another?
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messageRe: Secondary school allocation
Posted by Renata Hamvas 05 March, 2018 11:43

Hi Monkey,
if you live close to the school, you would be likely to gain a place on distance, 1/3 of places left after siblings/SEN/looked after etc are allocated by distance and 2/3 on random allocation, ie by lottery. This is a new system for 2018.
Renata

messageRe: Secondary school allocation
Posted by tulip 05 March, 2018 12:01

Oh dear. We are indeed 151 on scholarship list for Kingsdale. How many scholarships do they award if 15% already have a place? Thought it was top 4% of those who tried out got awarded full scholarship level. Even assuming perhaps 80% applied for at least one scholarship of the 3000 applicants and 4% got sport and 4% music and already 15% of places have gone to them- I cant fathom a waiting list being that long? Waiting for a call back. Just ranting and driving myself mad with pointless maths!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was 2018:03:05:12:02:12 by tulip.

messageRe: Secondary school allocation
Posted by Monkey 05 March, 2018 12:50

Blimey, Renata, this means I can't even rely on my nearest school to allocate me a space if 2/3 of the places are based on a lottery. And I think I'm now out of catchment for Sydenham School and all other schools. Either everything should be based on catchment or on lottery. Why does everything need to be so complicated?!

messageRe: Secondary school allocation
Posted by kristymac1 05 March, 2018 13:16

Hi Renata,
I think this system has been in place for the last couple of years at Harris Girls ED. When I spoke with the new head during our school visits she gave me the impression that she wanted to move back to 100% distance based allocation (after siblings, SEN etc) but dwasn't able to change it in time for the 2018 start.

Renata Hamvas Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi Monkey,
> if you live close to the school, you would be
> likely to gain a place on distance, 1/3 of places
> left after siblings/SEN/looked after etc are
> allocated by distance and 2/3 on random
> allocation, ie by lottery. This is a new system
> for 2018.
> Renata

messageRe: Secondary school allocation
Posted by hoonaloona 05 March, 2018 13:52

Hi tulip,
If it helps Kingsdale will be able to give you a clearer indication of your waiting list place once the deadline for accepting/rejecting places has passed. I expect you'll jump up a few places. Last year I heard that there were almost 2000 on the waiting list for Kingsdale so 151 doesn't seem too bad!

messageRe: Secondary school allocation
Posted by Renata Hamvas 05 March, 2018 14:38

Hi Monkey, I know it's very difficult for parents. It's because each school can set it's own admissions policy and they do!
Hi Kristy, the system was new for this year, but was consulted on a couple of years ago.

I guess if they find they have turned away applicants on their doorstep, they may decide to consult again and go back to the old system and as you correctly point out, there has been a change of Head! For a few years, Harris Girls was more popular overall with parents in Peckham and Camberwell than in Nunhead and East Dulwich. I am definitely seeing far more local interest for the school than a couple of years ago, so hopefully they will change it back. I will make an appointment to see the Head and discuss it with her. Another school which has become popular, particularly with parents to the east of the Rye is Deptford Green in New Cross. This is easily accessible, either by train from HOP or the 343 bus to New Cross Gate.
Renata

messageRe: Secondary school allocation
Posted by uncleglen 05 March, 2018 23:55

Renata Hamvas Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi Monkey,
> if you live close to the school, you would be
> likely to gain a place on distance, 1/3 of places
> left after siblings/SEN/looked after etc are
> allocated by distance and 2/3 on random
> allocation, ie by lottery. This is a new system
> for 2018.
> Renata
A Lottery ...How is that even LEGAL....appalling - no wonder people aren't having children

messageRe: Secondary school allocation
Posted by wonderwoman 06 March, 2018 07:28

When are the letters likely to come out? We were informed by email it. It doesn't explain why 1st or 2nd choice was not given. How can you challenge if you don't know the reason? Also I'm in the process of transferring my 1st son to the 1st choice school as he's in year 9 now. If he's successful will my year 6 son get a chance of getting in. Bit confusing but can someone help?

messageRe: Secondary school allocation
Posted by Bill1234 06 March, 2018 08:13

--- snip -- When are the letters likely to come out? We were informed by email it. It doesn't explain why 1st or 2nd choice was not given. How can you challenge if you don't know the reason? Also I'm in the process of transferring my 1st son to the 1st choice school as he's in year 9 now. If he's successful will my year 6 son get a chance of getting in. Bit confusing but can someone help?

---

To the best of my knowledge the following is correct.


If your Year 9 son moves into the other school fairly soon, and is formally on the preferred school roll, then if they have a sibling policy your other son should move to top of the waiting list, depending on the exact admissions criteria.

Similarly if address is one of the over-subscription criteria, and it is address at the time of entry that counts for admission then your waiting list place should change if your address were to change.

AFAIK the waiting lists are flexible.

messageRe: Secondary school allocation
Posted by Angelina 06 March, 2018 11:46

The lottery system is designed to avoid the situation with some schools, where property is premium as proximity is more likely to guarantee a place. This is also noted as being unfair.

It seems you can't please everyone.

messageRe: Secondary school allocation
Posted by tomskip 06 March, 2018 12:10

Wait ... 2/3 of places at Harris Girls are now going to be allocated by lottery?

What a disaster for that area of Nunhead/East Dulwich - which is in a secondary schools black hole as it is.

messageRe: Secondary school allocation
Posted by Angelina 06 March, 2018 12:23

yes - agree - a move to lottery places has to be widespread or not at all.
If anything the risk is our children all have further to travel.

2/3 seems the wrong balance.

messageRe: Secondary school allocation
Posted by tomskip 06 March, 2018 12:26

I don't think any school should be allowed to run a lottery in a vacuum. But there, schools are no longer accountable to the LA and can do whatever the hell they like with their admissions.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was 2018:03:06:12:28:11 by tomskip.

messageRe: Secondary school allocation
Posted by Angelina 06 March, 2018 12:33

agree - very bizarre behavior by the school. I wonder what drove that decision?

messageRe: Secondary school allocation
Posted by uncleglen 06 March, 2018 12:44

'Lottery'- and who will be overseeing that it is FAIR....what was wrong with the old LEA system 25% band one, 50% band 2, 25% band 3- on a proximity basis- this is a recipe for sink schools imo- unless their lottery is truly random

messageRe: Secondary school allocation
Posted by Shaggy 06 March, 2018 13:37

The Harris Girls lottery isn't truly random. It is banded. I've pasted the appropriate part of the Harris Girls policy below. The logistics of running a banded lottery without using computer selection strike me as being mind-boggling, so I would assume that it is a computer programme that blindly allots the places, and therefore random in that respect.

This does NOT appear to a new system introduced this year. According to their archived admissions policies, the policy was approved in March 2015 and first used in the 2016 round, for entry in September 2017. That would make this the second year of operation.

[www.harrisdulwichgirls.org.uk]

d). One third of the remaining places available in each band ( rounded up the next whole number) will then be allocated to those living nearest to the Academy as calculated by straight line distance from the students home to the road junction of Shelbury Road and Colyton Road and living no more than 1 kilometre away from that point. Any applicants not allocated a place on this basis will be added to those awaiting random allocation as set out in e) below. Any places not filled by this distance criteria will also be added to the available places in each band to be filled by random allocation;
e) Random allocation: any remaining students who have sat the admissions test and have not been allocated a place will be selected for a place in each band through a random allocation procedure until each band is full. Should any band not be full at the end of this process, students from the nearest adjacent band will allocated using random allocation to fill the unallocated places, alternating between the band above and below. The random allocation will be verified by a person independent of the Academy who will certify that it has been carried out properly and fairly.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit was 2018:03:06:14:41:45 by Shaggy.

messageRe: Secondary school allocation
Posted by DaveR 06 March, 2018 14:39

"...schools are no longer accountable to the LA and can do whatever the hell they like with their admissions"

Obviously not

[www.gov.uk]

messageRe: Secondary school allocation
Posted by tomskip 06 March, 2018 14:47

Obviously, I didn't mean literally whatever they like.

However, schools seem to be able to operate their own admissions systems without reference to surrounding schools and general need in the area.

messageRe: Secondary school allocation
Posted by Renata Hamvas 06 March, 2018 14:58

Hi Uncleglen, Academies set their own admissions policy, so they can operate a random allocation/lottery system if they wish, following consultation.
Hi Wonderwoman, parents are notified of their application outcome by email only.
[www.southwark.gov.uk]
Bill is correct, if you move your elder son and the school has a sibling category as part of it's admissions process, then your younger son will have that criteria applied to their waiting list position. You'll need to make sure Southwark knows that they are siblings!
Sorry Shaggy and Kristy, this has been running for a couple of years. Kingsdale do this too, banding plus random allocation. It's a bit odd that the point that is used to allocate the places on distance isn't on the school premises but is at the junction of Shelbury and Colyton.
Renata

messageRe: Secondary school allocation
Posted by bodsier 06 March, 2018 16:32

How do you accept a school place offered and when is the deadline?

messageRe: Secondary school allocation
Posted by Renata Hamvas 06 March, 2018 16:51

Hi Bodsier, you automatically get accepted for your allocated school unless you have an alternative offer.
Renata

messageRe: Secondary school allocation
Posted by bodsier 06 March, 2018 17:36

Thank you for your speedy reply

messageRe: Secondary school allocation
Posted by samstopit 08 March, 2018 13:47

Hi bodsier and Renata

I assumed I didn't need to do anything in terms of accepting my son's school place as he got his first choice. But then I got a letter from the school (Kingsdale) saying that I needed to fill out a form accepting or rejecting his place by the 15th March, otherwise his place would be offered to the next child on the waiting list. It's a good job we opened the letter (I often assume letters are just marketing and they get shelved) as we didn't get this information by email and we could have lost his place.

I thought I'd share this because it contradicts the information in the email from Southwark which says you don't have to do anything. Don't want to panic anyone. Renata can you advise if it's just Kingsdale which expects this?

To everyone who isn't in our lucky position, hold tight and I'm sure the waiting lists will move soon. Good luck.

messageRe: Secondary school allocation
Posted by flocker spotter 08 March, 2018 17:45

The most useful piece of advice that I was given by my kids' primary head was that most public opinion of secondary schools is at least 5 years out of date! Old reps take time to fade. You should look at every school with fresh eyes and eager ears.

messageRe: Secondary school allocation
Posted by Renata Hamvas 08 March, 2018 17:54

Hi Sam, the normal practice is that it's automatic, on the Southwark system it is automatic and they are curators of all the lists until September 1st. This must be a Kingsdale thing! My only though on why they may be doing this is parents who are planning to go private and are holding both a state and private place for their child.

I agree Flocker Spotter!

messageRe: Secondary school allocation
Posted by bodsier 08 March, 2018 18:06

Of course you do need to go to the school with child benefit letter, birth certificate so I guess this is a form of acceptance. If you don't I'm not sure that the place is held.

messageRe: Secondary school allocation
Posted by comomum 09 March, 2018 07:46

I have another question about the Kingsdale waiting list systems, as my child is on both the banded and scholarship lists. I assume the system with the music scholarship is one-in-one-out, so for every child that declines a place, the next child on the list gets offered a place (irrespective of banding?).
With the banded waiting list, is it one list made up from children across all of the bands, or are there separate lists for each of the bands? Or is there one list, but a child of the same band has to decline for your child to get offered a place. I hope that makes sense. I guess I'm asking if the number he is on the list, the number of children who have to decline, or if it becomes more complicated than that or indeed if there are multiple lists, then many more need to leave to account for all the bands.

messageRe: Secondary school allocation
Posted by Renata Hamvas 09 March, 2018 09:09

Hi Bodsier, you do, but this is much later on.

Hi Comomum. Yes it's one in one out for music. It's also one in one out for each of the three random allocation bands, they each have their own waiting list.
Renata

messageRe: Secondary school allocation
Posted by comomum 09 March, 2018 16:36

Thank you Renata, that's good to know so we can keep our expectations in check!

messageRe: Secondary school allocation
Posted by bodsier 09 March, 2018 19:28

Thanks, Renata,


Just to remind parents you have to produce a child benefit letter which can take up to two weeks to arrive. Some schools only provide 3 dates when you can produce the id, and the timings can be tight between receiving the letter and the dates that you have to produce them.

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