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messageRe: Flats being demolished in Solomons Passage SE15
Posted by geneie 15 June, 2016 12:35

There is an item on Solomons Passage on You and Yours (BBC radio 4) now

messageRe: Flats being demolished in Solomons Passage SE15
Posted by LondonMix 15 June, 2016 12:50

Agree-- one of my experiences with Southwark building control in 2013 involved the inspector forcing the builder to re-do a run of drainage 4 times before signing it off. That's why I find the idea that they are just there to advice totally preposterous.

Thanks for continuing to pursue this.

buddug Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi rendelharris. It's normal nowadays for local
> authorities to work together under what is called
> the LABC (local authority building control)
> partnership - google it. One council outside the
> area - often where the architects or developers
> are based - approves their plans for the host
> council and submits them - i.e. in this case, to
> the host council Southwark - where the work is
> taking place, and then the host council takes over
> to do the building control and sign-off of the
> works. What that entails, who knows. In my
> experience of building control, with regards to a
> local restaurant I helped with, they are very
> stringent, as LondonMix said. Anything wrong, and
> you have to redo it. However, now, in this case,
> Southwark is claiming building control sign-off is
> all very airy-fairy. Very odd.

messageRe: Flats being demolished in Solomons Passage SE15
Posted by spider69 15 June, 2016 14:45

After listening to this latest interview with Wandle you can only cry on behalf of these residents..

Lives destroyed but it is still pass the parcel. When the Chief Exec was asked do you feel guilty she put Sir Humphrey Appleby to shame with a it's not my fault answer.

Government should take this up and take who is responsible to court. Will it happen? I doubt it.
It you want to listen it is about 15 minutes in.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit was 2016:06:15:16:07:24 by spider69.

messageRe: Flats being demolished in Solomons Passage SE15
Posted by Mugglesworth 15 June, 2016 14:49

Has anyone ever found out who the Clerk of Works was on this?

messageRe: Flats being demolished in Solomons Passage SE15
Posted by farfisamania 16 June, 2016 00:15

"Agree-- one of my experiences with Southwark building control in 2013 involved the inspector forcing the builder to re-do a run of drainage 4 times before signing it off. That's why I find the idea that they are just there to advice totally preposterous"

I think it was you who first introduced the term 'advice'?

The situation is, stated simply, much as the head of building control put it: they are "not a clerk of works". The fact they can, for example, inspect a drainage run to ensure the contractor knows what they are doing is neither here nor there. They are there to ensure, as well as possible, compliance. They can't put a surveyor onsite every day. That's why the client on any complex project (i.e. Wandle) needs to have its own quality management processes in place. Exactly what happened in this case is something the client really needs to tell the building's residents. I don't think throwing most of the focus on the approval process, rather than the contract management, will progress things much.

Building control approval, ultimately, is not a guarantee and if defects subsequently emerge then they do not have financial liability. Murphy 1991 was fought on that very issue. The speculation on this forum that a local authority might become somehow liable to the owners for defects if the contractor goes under is poorly informed. Compensation for defects is usually based on rent and I am wondering if this is the principle Wandle have adopted here.

messageRe: Flats being demolished in Solomons Passage SE15
Posted by LondonMix 16 June, 2016 08:33

No I wasn't the first person to use the term, it was another poster who said they were more of an advisory service.

I am not arguing that Southwark is financially responsible-- I want to know how this happened (corruption, incompetence, etc) and for the person responsible within Southwark never to work on any building control project again.

Not only should what has happened to Wandle residents not be allowed to reoccur but imagine if this happened to the new secondary school or the new primary school. Its unconscionable!

Building control provide a public service and in this instance they appear to have badly failed. Of course Building Control isn't a clerk of works but they make specific visits at critical times in the build to ensure the most sensitive elements of the build are executed to code.

messageRe: Flats being demolished in Solomons Passage SE15
Posted by first mate 16 June, 2016 09:38

London Mix,

I totally agree with you. This is not about strict liability but building control, having made numerous site visits must even in a minir way be held accountable..if only to finally indicate that stuff was deliberately hidden from them etc..

I have heard takes from builders working on large projects in ED that certain building control officers can allegedly be 'persuaded' to pass stuff that is not to standard. Obviously this may be oure baloney.

messageRe: Flats being demolished in Solomons Passage SE15
Posted by richard tudor 16 June, 2016 10:23

When will Wandle publish the name of the
Clerk of Works and others concerned withis build and also make available all the confirmation sign off
sheets for the works on this project.

So far nothing seems to have been produced to allow MP,s Cllrs, Residents and public to see the depth of this mess.

As Housing Ass are no more than extensions of local authorities regarding housing perhaps Ms Harmam could ask the Govt to now take a deeper interest.

messageRe: Flats being demolished in Solomons Passage SE15
Posted by buddug 16 June, 2016 20:55

I agree with everything you've just said LondonMix, so I won't repeat. Farfisamania said 'They can't put a surveyor onsite every day', but Southwark building control made 48 visits, for God's sake! How did they miss all of this?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was 2016:06:16:20:57:28 by buddug.

messageRe: Flats being demolished in Solomons Passage SE15
Posted by farfisamania 17 June, 2016 10:30

48 visits don't represent a huge amount of time over the course of constructing a large residential building!

Don't get me wrong, I find it appalling that these buildings are now having to be demolished. I do however feel that trying to get 'answers' from building control isn't going to get you that far because a) they can point out that they have no responsibility for quality issues (which most of the problems listed by Wandle seem to be) and b) on compliance issues, approval is still not an absolute guarantee of compliance.

I think it would be more productive to ask how the contractor (and their replacement) was procured, how the contract was managed, what snagging was carried out, what are the contents of the report recommending demolition. There was a suggestion y someone here that the structural problems were worsened by poor maintenance. What maintenance regime was in place? How did it take account of the building's characteristics? Why did it take several years to uncover these defects? I don't know if private organsisations like housing associations are covered by FoI - I think it depends on ownership. If the HA in this case isn't covered by FoI then I think it shows some of the problems with HAs as a way of delivering social housing.

Housing associations were at the forefront of promoting timber framed construction in the UK in the early 2000s. Up till that point English homebuilders hadn't made that much use of it. Detailed info from the HA would help to show exactly what happened here.

messageRe: Flats being demolished in Solomons Passage SE15
Posted by LondonMix 17 June, 2016 11:18

Farfusanabua-- your 10 posts on this thread are virtually all of the 12posts you have ever made on the ED forum.

I hope you don't mind me asking but are you in anyway affiliated with Southwark Council? If so, can you please openly declare what that relationship is?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was 2016:06:17:11:19:36 by LondonMix.

messageRe: Flats being demolished in Solomons Passage SE15
Posted by richard tudor 17 June, 2016 11:51

farfisamania Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 48 visits don't represent a huge amount of time
> over the course of constructing a large
> residential building!
>
> Don't get me wrong, I find it appalling that these
> buildings are now having to be demolished. I do
> however feel that trying to get 'answers' from
> building control isn't going to get you that far
> because a) they can point out that they have no
> responsibility for quality issues (which most of
> the problems listed by Wandle seem to be) and b)
> on compliance issues, approval is still not an
> absolute guarantee of compliance.
>
> I think it would be more productive to ask how the
> contractor (and their replacement) was procured,
> how the contract was managed, what snagging was
> carried out, what are the contents of the report
> recommending demolition. There was a suggestion y
> someone here that the structural problems were
> worsened by poor maintenance. What maintenance
> regime was in place? How did it take account of
> the building's characteristics? Why did it take
> several years to uncover these defects? I don't
> know if private organsisations like housing
> associations are covered by FoI - I think it
> depends on ownership. If the HA in this case isn't
> covered by FoI then I think it shows some of the
> problems with HAs as a way of delivering social
> housing.
>
> Housing associations were at the forefront of
> promoting timber framed construction in the UK in
> the early 2000s. Up till that point English
> homebuilders hadn't made that much use of it.
> Detailed info from the HA would help to show
> exactly what happened here.


Perhaps Harriet Harman, all Cllrs and Southwark Council could take action, legal if necessary, to get the answers to above.

Perhaps all parties, including Wandle, would prefer it to remain buried. From memory at the very start of this thread these questions were raised. Due Diligence

From all interviews maintenance was a great problem. Last raised on Radio 4 a few days ago

messageRe: Flats being demolished in Solomons Passage SE15
Posted by farfisamania 17 June, 2016 11:59

LondonMix, I already said I'm not affiliated. My particular interest in this story is the same as yours: I'm concerned as to how a building can require demolition after six years of life. Something has clearly gone wrong somewhere.

messageRe: Flats being demolished in Solomons Passage SE15
Posted by Penguin68 17 June, 2016 12:06

On the face of it, this seems to have been a flawed build exacerbated by poor or inappropriate maintenance - hand-over from builder to association seems to have been slack (i.e. suggested lack of snagging) - whether the faults which have appeared are part of the remit of buildings control or not will presumably (if 'they' bother to undertake a proper review) appear in due course. Whether they should have been (i.e. is the remit and authority of buildings control wide enough?) is a different question. What is blindingly obvious is that a build undertaken by or for a Housing Association should not need tearing down so soon after completion. No materials used should have failed so precipitately (even Ronan Point took some time for its flawed construction to become apparent). No doubt there will be a lot of blame shifting but this is a scandal - and anything but a victimless 'crime'. If poor maintenance was an issue (lots of suggestions it was certainly contributory) then Wandle cannot get out from under by blaming the earlier principals and the builder.

messageRe: Flats being demolished in Solomons Passage SE15
Posted by Elphinstone's Army 22 June, 2016 21:07

Whilst many comments are attempting to pin the tail on the donkey, this does not help the residents of Solomons Passage who will not be thrilled to receive the Wandle propaganda in the guise of a house magazine, the cover of which declares, '1,000 new homes - tackling south London's housing crisis' with an abject lack of irony, awareness or concern.

messageRe: Flats being demolished in Solomons Passage SE15
Posted by jam_log 23 June, 2016 14:42

another article in the local press

[www.southwarknews.co.uk]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was 2016:06:23:14:43:10 by jam_log.

messageRe: Flats being demolished in Solomons Passage SE15
Posted by Elphinstone's Army 23 June, 2016 16:56

Thank you for posting this - the spelling, grammar, syntax, split infinitives, and dull tone are not exactly dynamic.

However, the gist is that nothing productive is being done by Wandle,

The notion that somehow it is the resident's fault/responsibility/burden whether practically, fiscally or morally, to be utterly disingenuous.

In the Spring magazine, Wandle picture and describe,l,000 new homes for south London. ready for 2021. at

Grange Walk Bermondsey, 34 flats to rent and 22 for shared ownership,

Valentine Place, 13 flats for rent and 6 for shared ownership.

this can be seen on wandle.com/newhomes

I realise the tenants want to stay in Peckham of course they do if they have chidren at school, or in fact, want to stay.

But they are being disenfranchised, dismissed, sidelined, without being offered, as recompense for the upheaval, stress, inconvenience and imposition of indifference on the part of their landlords, Wandle, new accommodation in which they could at least be together. A forward completion time notwithstanding.

Bearing in mind as someone pointed out earlier, there are no cracks showing yet in their current accommodation.

Who can cut through the sheer bloody minded intransigence of all from the euphemistically described 'customer services' to the almost monstrous CEO Tracey Lees.

There is another word I feel would describe the head of the fish but I fear is possibly libellous, usually involving lack of empathy.

messageRe: Flats being demolished in Solomons Passage SE15
Posted by spider69 23 June, 2016 17:46

What you can be 100% sure of they have taken very expensive legal advice to minimize their liability, to Residents, Tenants and Leaseholders, paid for by indirect Govt funds and left these people to hang out to dry. They are fully aware that these people cannot employ the best legal brains to put up any fight.

No doubt they have employed at great cost the best legal advice they can get. Will they tell who?

I suspect that all discussions held under the umbrella of Harriet Harman and Cllrs and possibly agreed prior to Legal advice to make them look good is now flushed down the toilet.

It is apparent that Wandle did not oversee this construction which is not the fault of residents and before anyone says Leaseholders and Shared Ownership showed have conducted their own survey you do not expect to find in some cases 3 year old builds wrong from the getgo. How would they find out?

They may be taking the builders etc to court but this is no more than a smokescreen to avoid what they should be doing for residents etc. "We cannot comment until the report is released" but residents will only see what Wandle want people to see, no more no less. Not their failings I suspect

Courts I suspect would uphold that Wandle is fulfilling their minimum duties. i.e. lets screw these people for the min we have to pay.

This will not cover improvements, furniture that has been purchased to fit their flats. Location to allow people to continue their work. Will Wandle cover storage for furniture that cannot be used until the repairs are made and they return in the case of Shared Ownership and Leaseholders.

When will Tracey Lees and Wandle stand up and say we have "F..cked up" in a major way and we will pay out whatever it costs to put matters right. Lives are worth much more than my reputation and Wandles.

If Wandle are building houses in the immediate area all residents should have first choice not having to bid.

Shared ownership should have their places fixed with all costs incurred covered without out arguments and remain shared ownership as per the purchase agreement.

What will happen is Harriet Harman, Cllrs will slip slowly away and let matters disappear.

I hope HH will remain committed and use her influence to help these people.

I feel this is not about people but financial damage limitation underpinned by legal costs.

messageRe: Flats being demolished in Solomons Passage SE15
Posted by Blah Blah 23 June, 2016 19:02

Harriet and Cllrs will not be allowed to let it slip away. There are people at Labour branch meetings who have raised this and will keep Cllrs and Harriet involved.

messageRe: Flats being demolished in Solomons Passage SE15
Posted by richard tudor 24 June, 2016 15:37

Does anyone know if Solmons Passage suffered from the last few days of torrential rain?

messageRe: Flats being demolished in Solomons Passage SE15
Posted by spider69 28 June, 2016 18:06

Blah Blah Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Harriet and Cllrs will not be allowed to let it
> slip away. There are people at Labour branch
> meetings who have raised this and will keep Cllrs
> and Harriet involved.

With all that's going on what are the chances that this is only on a list they deem unimportant.

Labour like most politicians will only look after their own interest,

Perfect opportunity for Wandle to push through what ever they want. As some one noted in an earlier post.

What was the old Government ploy "now is the time to release bad news" no one will notice until it is too late.

messageRe: Flats being demolished in Solomons Passage SE15
Posted by Blah Blah 28 June, 2016 22:19

You qoute me but didn't actually read what I wrote did you? Local party members have power through the party to keep an issue raised. Local councillors serve their local community. They have a duty to respond to any request made to them. The issue is a civil legal matter. They are limited in what they can do.

messageRe: Flats being demolished in Solomons Passage SE15
Posted by spider69 13 July, 2016 17:46

Now that the circus regarding Brexit, Call me Dave and the Labour party has passed would it be possible for some update on the problems of Solomons Passage.

Will either Southwark Cllrs or Harriet Harman inform locals what has transpired to help all those people and what Wandle is doing.

Local party members have power through the party to keep an issued raised. What are they doing.

Although it is a civil legal matter for Wandle what are they doing to help residents? Apart from doing the basic requirement that their lawyers have instructed.

Perhaps Solomons residents could keep us up to date and not let this drop off the radar.

messageRe: Flats being demolished in Solomons Passage SE15
Posted by jam_log 13 July, 2016 19:00

hi Spider.

Solomons Passage resident here. We are currently in a process of negotiation with Wandle over the terms and conditions of our move out before the extensive renovation/ demolition begins.

What that means for all of us is providing us with the opportunity to be able to replace like for like in the local area that we have built our lives, work and call home that we desperately don't want to leave.

This process is not quick and to be honest we are hardly off the starting blocks.

Harriet Harman and her office are supporting us through the process and applying constant pressure to Wandle and their support has been truly fantastic in such challenging times.

messageRe: Flats being demolished in Solomons Passage SE15
Posted by Blah Blah 14 July, 2016 02:04

This is reported on at every local party branch meeting too. Councillors are fully engaged with residents, and councillor Edwards at the Branch meeting last week gave a further update to say that is the case.

messageRe: Flats being demolished in Solomons Passage SE15
Posted by jam_log 14 July, 2016 13:26

Solomons Passage resident here again, I am pleased that the Councillors continue the discuss the needs of Solomons Passage residents within their cross party meetings, we look forward to hearing their agreed plan of action to support to residents

messageRe: Flats being demolished in Solomons Passage SE15
Posted by dampdoris 14 July, 2016 14:25

Another Solomon's Passage resident here. I wanted to say thanks for your support everyone. It can feel very lonely when in the midst of a crisis so it's good to know we aren't alone. Elphinstone's Army just wanted to say that although our buildings look ok from the outside, inside the 'cracks' are very much showing. Numerous residents have been living with damp and mould for years, doing who knows what to our health. The evidence is there to see on our walls, ceilings and floors, complete with mushrooms in some areas (I kid you not). Our secure underground car park also pours like a waterfall when it rains, so don't be fooled by the exterior. As for the new shared ownership properties you mention, we have been offered these, but not on a like for like basis - so no transfer of % owned and they are far more expensive than our current homes were when we bought them. So effectively we are priced out of them unless we want to go backwards in terms of home ownership. :-( looking forward to receiving positive news soon.

messageRe: Flats being demolished in Solomons Passage SE15
Posted by kford 19 August, 2016 11:58

Meanwhile: [www.standard.co.uk]

messageRe: Flats being demolished in Solomons Passage SE15
Posted by Peckhamrye 23 August, 2016 13:29

Yes, I shudder to think what the effect of the same fire would have been on our neighbours in Solomon's Passage - it was very reassuring that the fire stopping in our car park worked so well, with no flats affected.

messageRe: Flats being demolished in Solomons Passage SE15
Posted by spider69 24 August, 2016 14:44

Someone in the lounge raised the matter of help for residents from the Mayor, could a resident bring us up to date as to what help the MP, Cllrs and Wandle are actually doing?

This should thread should not be allowed to die.

Look forward to an update



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was 2016:08:26:11:56:31 by spider69.

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