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The East Dulwich Forum
The Bishop, The EDT, The Great Exhibition, the Actress or another?
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messageRe: Residents Melbourne Grove, Adys Road, Bromar Road - Traffic increases due to Champion Hill
Posted by Angelina March 03, 05:27PM

So people don't like the traffic on their roads now it's diverted.

CH may be a wider road but it is also a residential area but had turned into a main road I fully welcome the view of stopping traffic through more roads, as Peter atated.

messageRe: Residents Melbourne Grove, Adys Road, Bromar Road - Traffic increases due to Champion Hill
Posted by spider69 March 03, 05:32PM

Where do you live?

Just the road

messageRe: Residents Melbourne Grove, Adys Road, Bromar Road - Traffic increases due to Champion Hill
Posted by Camberwellse5 March 03, 06:26PM

This is a load of poppycock. Champion Hill was closedto stop the predominant traffic flow of Peckham to Brixton. Those commuters will not go via East Dulwich as that adds 10 minutes to their journey time at least. Theyíre using the bus route. The increased flows in East Dulwich are no doubt due to the new Charter and children being dropped off

messageRe: Residents Melbourne Grove, Adys Road, Bromar Road - Traffic increases due to Champion Hill
Posted by goldilocks March 03, 11:12PM

You have thought that, but itís strange how the tailbacks coincided exactly with the closure of the champion hill / grove junction isnít it? charter East Dulwich opened after Christmas so the timing doesnít line up!



Camberwellse5 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This is a load of poppycock. Champion Hill was
> closedto stop the predominant traffic flow of
> Peckham to Brixton. Those commuters will not go
> via East Dulwich as that adds 10 minutes to their
> journey time at least. Theyíre using the bus
> route. The increased flows in East Dulwich are no
> doubt due to the new Charter and children being
> dropped off

messageRe: Residents Melbourne Grove, Adys Road, Bromar Road - Traffic increases due to Champion Hill
Posted by rendelharris March 04, 09:43AM

Charles Notice Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How many people/houses are there on Grove Hill
> Road, Bromar Road, Pytchley Road, Quorn Road,
> Malfort Road, Ivanhoe Road together with all the
> flats on to the the DKH estate that now have the
> pleasure of the road closure?

Well, Charles, I had to walk to hospital again this morning, so I took some pictures for you. Clockwise from top left: Bromar Road, Quorn Road, Ivanhoe Road, Grove Lane, Dog Kennel Hill and Pytchley Road. All pictures taken between 8.05 and 8.20 this morning. So you can put your kind concerns for residents of these roads to rest, it would seem.

There was a traffic jam along the bottom part of Champion Park, stretching back almost as far as the wolf sculpture; in the twenty-plus years I've lived round here there has always been a traffic jam of that length or longer at rush hour, it's a very busy road with a pelican that turns red every ninety seconds or less and there is a very long red/short green phasing at the lights at the Denmark Hill junction. From the wolf sculpture, cars were taking approximately two minutes to reach Denmark Hill. Of the alleged nightmarish gridlock of which we've heard so much, not a sign.

https://i.imgur.com/4dyzS5n.png?1



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit was march 04, 12:10pm by rendelharris.

messageRe: Residents Melbourne Grove, Adys Road, Bromar Road - Traffic increases due to Champion Hill
Posted by bels123 March 04, 11:58AM

Please can someone confirm when the trial started? I live on one of the mentioned roads and canít say Iíve noticed any increase. ED Grove however has been bad, Iíve taken a few videos of the congestion wrhen itís been particularly slow as weíre walking to school - Iíll check dates once someone confirm trial start date.

messageRe: Residents Melbourne Grove, Adys Road, Bromar Road - Traffic increases due to Champion Hill
Posted by Galileo March 04, 12:36PM

Grove Vale has also been backed up a lot recently. I havenít noticed an increase in traffic on my road, which is where the drop offs for Charter East Dulwich would be, but so far I have seen relatively few drop offs, much to the credit of the school and itís pupils and parents.

messageRe: Residents Melbourne Grove, Adys Road, Bromar Road - Traffic increases due to Champion Hill
Posted by sdrs March 04, 01:27PM

Champion Hill access to Denmark Hill has been blocked off since Monday 4th Feb as the no entry barrier was installed at the intersection of Champion Hill with itself a week ahead of the official start date (which was given as 11th Feb).

messageRe: Residents Melbourne Grove, Adys Road, Bromar Road - Traffic increases due to Champion Hill
Posted by bels123 March 04, 08:42PM

I took videos on our way to school on ED Grove on 22nd Jan as was particularly bad then - backed up all the way to Melbourne Grove. I remember thinking it had been for a week or so - put it down to the cold weather as there were no road works this side of Dulwich Village.

Weíve taken to walking on the north pavement now, as the traffic going towards Dulwich Village is so gridlocked.

messageRe: Residents Melbourne Grove, Adys Road, Bromar Road - Traffic increases due to Champion Hill
Posted by goldilocks March 06, 12:20PM

I think as noted above by bels123, the traffic on East Dulwich Grove has been terrible for months, my point was that since the start of the trial closure, the tailbacks were longer than ever - they never used to go past Melbourne Grove, but on occasions during the trial they have been backed up past Matham Grove. This week however, it appears to have gone back to a more normal (congested) level so far. I have no idea why this would be the case, but its welcome!

messageRe: Residents Melbourne Grove, Adys Road, Bromar Road - Traffic increases due to Champion Hill
Posted by bels123 March 06, 12:57PM

Yes I noticed it was much better this morning!

messageRe: Residents Melbourne Grove, Adys Road, Bromar Road - Traffic increases due to Champion Hill
Posted by Siduhe March 06, 01:38PM

Interestingly the traffic has also been much better on the South Circular where the water main works are in the last two days - a very noticeable drop off in traffic. I wonder if people are using alternative routes to pass through Southwark given the impact of those works (which might in turn affect traffic flows a bit further north at the other end of the Lane)

messageRe: Residents Melbourne Grove, Adys Road, Bromar Road - Traffic increases due to Champion Hill
Posted by goldilocks March 07, 09:35AM

Wherever the traffic has been for the past couple of days, itís back today with a vengeance. Could see queueing towards the crossroads by alleyns all the way back last Matham Grove and beyond!

messageRe: Residents Melbourne Grove, Adys Road, Bromar Road - Traffic increases due to Champion Hill
Posted by wulfhound March 07, 10:41AM

Grove Lane was shut due to a serious RTC, much traffic will have diverted via EDG.

messageRe: Residents Melbourne Grove, Adys Road, Bromar Road - Traffic increases due to Champion Hill
Posted by goldilocks March 07, 01:50PM

Explains it as it was dreadful this am.

Will be interesting to see what tomorrow brings - its strange that there has been so much variation - totally ridiculous tail backs for about 2 weeks followed by 2 days of calm, then 2 days of extreme tailbacks that may have been due to accidents on Grove Lane.

messageRe: Residents Melbourne Grove, Adys Road, Bromar Road - Traffic increases due to Champion Hill
Posted by talfourdite March 09, 03:11PM

I do believe Champion Hill to be a much wider street (road to house frontage)than most other streets now bearing the brunt of the re-routed traffic. It was always free flowing and did shorten our journey by around 50%, I can still use it coming home, but outbound it is shut to us. It does feel like people are reporting a growing number of traffic problems - to some degree this is the inevitable consequence of the additional volumes of traffic re-routed via these streets either exacerbating or causing some of these issues. After all, it's clear that the impact of this change will be exactly the sum of those journeys, less the people shifted to walking / cycling / foregoing their journey. In my case, we still drive and and have to drive twice as far, at two thirds of the speed to get to the same end goal.
As an observation, reading this thread, this does feel like CH versus the rest of the world. That I suppose is inevitable if public roads are allowed to be treated as private roads - with locally advertised consultations with wide-reaching consequences. If I were in Lordship Lane, Melbourne Grove or Adys Road, I would feel a strong motivation to have my street closed to traffic too. I wonder where that would leave us.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was march 09, 03:16pm by talfourdite.

messageRe: Residents Melbourne Grove, Adys Road, Bromar Road - Traffic increases due to Champion Hill
Posted by PeterW March 09, 05:38PM

"this does feel like CH versus the rest of the world"

Certainly not from my point of view, as someone who lives on CH. As I've said before, I'd support such schemes just as vigorously if they were directed at other roads, eg Melbourne Grove. And the *only* way you'll get more such schemes is to not try and kill them off in the first place. Also, if you did have more and more residential streets shut to motor traffic, you'd gradually start to see the modal shift to other forms of transport (assuming other measures are taken to, for example, make walking and cycling more pleasant).

Out of interest, Talfourdite, what is the journey you make by car, and would there be a way to make it by other measns? Don't tell me if you don't want to, and it's not so I can judge - some trips are tricky by other methods. But the evidence is that a fairly decent percentage of London car trips could be made in other ways. For example, when I was walking down Champion Grove at 7.40ish on Friday, about 90% of the traffic queuing for the lights was single people in cars. I'm guessing at least some could use other methods but prefer not to. Sure, that's their choice, but it will cause congestion, and there's no reason why the majority of locals who don't own cars should have to indulge their choice at the penalty of more smog, danger, noise etc etc. Ultimately, the cause of the gridlock isn't one, minor traffic scheme Ė it's too many cars.

messageRe: Residents Melbourne Grove, Adys Road, Bromar Road - Traffic increases due to Champion Hill
Posted by sdrs March 09, 06:35PM

Thť problem is that the roads such schemes displace traffic onto, such as Dog Kennel Hill and Grove Lane, are also residential. Furthermore, these roads, together with Champion Park, take significantly more pedestrians than Champion Hill does. Far from being made more pleasant for walking, the trial closure of Champion Hill has made them unpleasant, unhealthy and unsafe. We are talking about a major pedestrian route to three local primary schools (Lyndhurst, Dog Kennel Hill and Goose Green). Closing single streets to make the roads we all use to get to school and work dangerously congested and polluted is neither equitable nor rational.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was march 09, 06:36pm by sdrs.

messageRe: Residents Melbourne Grove, Adys Road, Bromar Road - Traffic increases due to Champion Hill
Posted by rendelharris March 09, 07:48PM

talfourdite Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
In my case, we
> still drive and and have to drive twice as far, at
> two thirds of the speed to get to the same end
> goal.

OK, you may find this question offensive, and I sincerely apologise if you have issues which make any other form of transport unviable, but is it strictly necessary to use your car to go two miles from Talfourd Road to Dulwich Village? That's a distance that can be cycled in ten minutes by the most unfit of riders. If you have a disability that mandates your using a car, then fair enough, I would never want to have that proscribed. If you're just using a car for the school run or because you find it a convenient option, I can't offer you too much sympathy about congestion, because you're part of it.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit was march 10, 07:32am by rendelharris.

messageRe: Residents Melbourne Grove, Adys Road, Bromar Road - Traffic increases due to Champion Hill
Posted by talfourdite March 10, 01:27PM

I donít really want to get into the specifics of my own life, I donít think thatís what this is here for. I can tell you that I cycle, own an electric hybrid, have a pollution monitor at home, assess every journey I make and consider the pollution levels to be the single biggest issue facing Londoners today. However, despite all of this, I think this scheme is regressive and poorly thought out for the reasons I have raised. I totally get schemes to up car clubs, electric car ownership and cycle lanes. They are a good use of my tax payers money, shutting one street at a timers just idiotic. We need to encourage better transport choices and drive off highly polluting vehicles, this just isnít the right solution to ny mind.

messageRe: Residents Melbourne Grove, Adys Road, Bromar Road - Traffic increases due to Champion Hill
Posted by Sally Eva March 10, 04:14PM

If your reason for opposing this scheme is that it is too small perhaps you would like to propose a larger scale scheme which you would support.

messageRe: Residents Melbourne Grove, Adys Road, Bromar Road - Traffic increases due to Champion Hill
Posted by talfourdite March 10, 06:34PM

my reason for objection has been laid out quite a few times. it certainly isn't that it's too small, it's that it's too stupid.

messageRe: Residents Melbourne Grove, Adys Road, Bromar Road - Traffic increases due to Champion Hill
Posted by rendelharris March 10, 06:39PM

talfourdite Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
We need to encourage better
> transport choices

But not discourage school-running two miles every single day?

messageRe: Residents Melbourne Grove, Adys Road, Bromar Road - Traffic increases due to Champion Hill
Posted by talfourdite March 10, 08:14PM

Is that a question to someone?

messageRe: Residents Melbourne Grove, Adys Road, Bromar Road - Traffic increases due to Champion Hill
Posted by rendelharris March 10, 08:24PM

talfourdite Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Is that a question to someone?


Well yes - to you I think...

messageRe: Residents Melbourne Grove, Adys Road, Bromar Road - Traffic increases due to Champion Hill
Posted by talfourdite March 10, 09:46PM

I donít really think I understand. But if youíre asking me should people be able to drive their kids to school, then I would say of course I do. Do you not?

messageRe: Residents Melbourne Grove, Adys Road, Bromar Road - Traffic increases due to Champion Hill
Posted by rendelharris March 11, 05:58AM

It doesn't come under my understanding of "better transport choices", no.

messageRe: Residents Melbourne Grove, Adys Road, Bromar Road - Traffic increases due to Champion Hill
Posted by James Barber March 11, 07:52AM

Hi talfourdite,
I get the feeling we should all be able to driving our children to school if we so wish.

On a practical note...
Local primary schools maximum admissions distance home to school typically 300-1100m.
Secondary schools typically circa 1,250m.
These distance are easily walkable for 99% of children.

Thankfully the majority do not drive their children to school else we'd have even higher traffic and pollution levels.
Given the choice most children prefer walking, cycling, scootering to school. And in Southwark we have a child obesity epidemic.
Unless parents are ensuring lots of exercise, outside of driving their kids to school, they may well be doing their children physical harm by restricting their activity levels. And also harming other peoples children from increased air pollution.

--------------------
Regards jamesvbarber@gmail.com
former Liberal Democrat Councillor for East Dulwich Ward (2006-2018)
[www.jamesbarber.org.uk]
[twitter.com]

messageRe: Residents Melbourne Grove, Adys Road, Bromar Road - Traffic increases due to Champion Hill
Posted by first mate March 11, 08:11AM

Do we actually know what proportion of parents within the ED area that drive their kids to school on a regular basis, or is the evidence largely anecdotal?

messageRe: Residents Melbourne Grove, Adys Road, Bromar Road - Traffic increases due to Champion Hill
Posted by nxjen March 11, 08:51AM

ďGiven the choice most children prefer walking, cycling, scootering to school.Ē

This is really interesting and Iím not doubting you James but is this based on research or is it anecdotal?

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