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messageRe: Council parks to charge £2ph parking fee from 1 April
Posted by sally buying February 11, 04:47PM

Firstly

"Dear Councillor Ali,
Thank you for your email. We are still progressing the implementation of the new car parking policy and you will have received information regarding the start date, earlier today.

That said, I wanted to get back to you on the specific issue you raised below. After installation the signs were covered, however subsequently some signs were uncovered by individuals visiting the park which lead to confusion over whether the charging had started. Those who have been in touch to let us know they have paid in error are having refunds processed.

If you have any further questions please free to contact me directly."

Secondly

"Dear Councillors

We write to inform you that we propose to commence charging for parking in the following parks from Monday 24 February 2020:

• Burgess Park
• Dulwich Park
• Honor Oak Park
• Peckham Rye Park
• Southwark Park

From that date a flat rate parking charge of £2 per hour will apply at all times. This is payable via the PaybyPhone cashless parking. Blue Badge holders will be exempt from these charges.

The Traffic Management Order (TMO) will be made next week. The legal requirement is for the order to be circulated to statutory consultees, (including ward councillors) and for the order to be published in the London Gazette. The TMO will circulated next week and published in the London Gazette on Thursday 13 February and is enforceable after 3 days. However, we have agreed to give the public a minimum of two weeks notice prior to commencing charging.

Therefore emails will be sent to all relevant stakeholders and posters notifying of the start date have been displayed in the relevant car parks. The permanent signs that show information on how to pay are currently covered and will remain so until the morning of Monday 24 February. A useful suggestion was also made that it may be beneficial to also display posters explaining the reasoning behind the decision to commence charging for parking and this has been done (see attached) and these posters are also on display at the above sites.

The introduction of charges to park motor vehicles in park car parks is in line with our Climate Emergency declaration, and aim for the borough to be carbon neutral by 2030. Discouraging car use is expected to lead to fewer cars on the roads which will benefit the community by improving road safety as well as reducing emissions. In addition, ongoing budget pressures mean that it has become necessary to find new ways of offsetting costs so the high standards in our parks can be maintained. These changes will also address the issue of commuters using park car parks, freeing up spaces for visitors to the park.

The Mayor for London’s Transport Strategy says that provision for car parking should be restricted and aims for 80% of journeys to be made by walking, cycling or public transport, thus reducing car journeys. We are installing new bike racks in all of our parks with car parks, to help with this. We hope that those who are able to, will adopt more sustainable modes of transport, and that this will help to improve air quality for everyone in Southwark.

Kind regards,"

messageRe: Council parks to charge £2ph parking fee from 1 April
Posted by richard tudor February 12, 09:51AM

Thank you for posting this.

It least we now know for a fact that Southwark will be doing all it can to rid the Borough of motorcars.

No original thoughts to improve things which will benefit the majority of an ageing population in the borough. who cannot walk or cycle.

There was a post on this forum that explained one residents problem in getting to and using Dulwich Park, no thought given to him or other residents in the same situation.

messageRe: Council parks to charge £2ph parking fee from 1 April
Posted by tiddles February 12, 10:48AM

but the signs in Peckham say that it is not happening until april and there will be a clear 2 weeks notice period so everyone is aware - which is different to what the above says

messageRe: Council parks to charge £2ph parking fee from 1 April
Posted by exdulwicher February 12, 12:37PM

richard tudor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thank you for posting this.
>
> It least we now know for a fact that Southwark
> will be doing all it can to rid the Borough of
> motorcars.
>

That's a rather dramatic overstatement, they're simply charging a small sum to park a car.

messageRe: Council parks to charge £2ph parking fee from 1 April
Posted by richard tudor February 12, 12:47PM

From your forum name I have to think you do not live in East Dulwich or its surrounds any more. If you look at what is being proposed every where is being directed to having no cars. This is not right and will effect many people. There was a posting on this from a resident and shows this is not is not an overstatement. You have not commented on this posting.

As you comment quite lot on this subject do you live in the area to be able to comment on what is going on?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was february 12, 04:24pm by richard tudor.

messageRe: Council parks to charge £2ph parking fee from 1 April
Posted by cleanairdulwich February 12, 02:30PM

richard tudor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
If you look at what is being proposed every where is
> being directed to no cars.
>


Why is an aim to encourage people out of their cars such a bad thing? A third of all car trips in London are under 2km, a distance which can easily be walked or cycled by most. Surely this is exactly what we should be calling for our councils / government to be doing to tackle the climate emergency, air pollution, childhood obesity etc..?

This report explains more [www.london.gov.uk]. Interesting quote 'Most people in London do not use cars regularly but car use impacts on everybody’s health'

messageRe: Council parks to charge £2ph parking fee from 1 April
Posted by Penguin68 February 12, 02:53PM

a distance which can easily be walked or cycled by most.

I am assuming your are possibly young, able bodied, without small children. Or without the need to port large and heavy/ awkward objects. And probably living in the parts of the area without steep hills, whilst not being young, able bodied or with small children.

Or having to take children one way to school and then in an entirely different direction to get to public transport to get to work.

Or needing to travel broadly east: west where most public transport is optimised north: south (i.e. into and out of Central London).

messageRe: Council parks to charge £2ph parking fee from 1 April
Posted by womanofdulwich February 14, 04:21PM

Dulwich Park signs say the charges start 28th Feb, not 1st April. 😱

messageRe: Council parks to charge £2ph parking fee from 1 April
Posted by Renata Hamvas February 14, 06:52PM

To confirm it is Monday 24th February and the rationale behind it is it will encourage local residents to walk or take public transport to the park. Blue badge holders will be exempt.
Renata

messageRe: Council parks to charge £2ph parking fee from 1 April
Posted by sally buying February 14, 08:34PM

Please read and understand the message that is listed below.

Southwark is only interested in raising money not the requirements of its residents.

I believe parks should be for the use of all residents not just Dulwich resident able to walk to the park

Email sent by Spider69 posted on the forum

"Below is an email that I sent to Southwark regarding the park charges, I have not had a response. This is the real damage these charges will cause not the reasons given by some above.

Perhaps people should consider what is written below.

As many of you are aware Council Tax will rise this year by 4%

Try applying for a Blue Badge, it is not that easy as various articles in the Southwark News have thrown up.

Dear People,(Richard Livingstone, Eleanor Kelly and Peter John)

It has just been posted on the Dulwich Forum that the parking charge is going ahead as it would seem that the payment signs are already up to be used but are hidden. Although I have posted before my opposition I have heard not a word until the Forum put it up just now.

I have circulation problem with my feet whereby I need to walk a lot. My dog and I use Dulwich Park once a day and sometimes twice as it is flat and pleasant and does not put to much pressure on my metatarsal bones due to fat loss. It gives us both the exercise that Doctors recommend.

Prior to Champion Hill closing it took me 10/12 minutes by car to reach the park. Now I am looking at 25minutes sometimes more to get there. Another ill thought out scheme.

Now that this charge is being brought in I will have to consider if I can afford to go for 2/3 hours a day combined with other factors.

Before the normal comments are made if I have to take public transport, which involves 2 buses and walking the journey will take a min of 40 minutes or longer each way. That time depends if the bus/s turns up on time or at all. My house is situated in the middle of a hill away from public transport. So it is already difficult to reach a starting point.

Combine that with having a dog and the prospect does not really appeal after testing it. Getting a bus with a dog presents problems as mothers with prams that look like tanks take up most of the limited space parking space and space between the seats is very limited.

So looking to use my local park which I have done for almost 73 years a return journey will now take me around 90 minutes without the time spent in the park.

Factor into that being tired after walking, and it rains having a wet dog on a bus which will not please some the park is really getting out of reach.

6 days a week for me will cost £24/36 a week extra for something that I already pay towards with my Council tax, which is over £2000+ for this year. I cannot afford to pay to use my local park

Some families will also have to make this decision.

Locals in the Dulwich Park area can walk with no problem but others that are not and have have to travel with children, toddler bikes, scooters, toys and the family dog will have to consider if they can afford the park which is crazy. Getting on a bus is most of the time not an option.

It might appear to some that the park and it surrounds is turning into a middle class ghetto which might just be used by only close residents. This is wrong.

It is strange that Southwark keep pushing fitness but continue to make it difficult for many.

Again another decision whilst looking at in a meeting has just not been thought through before putting it into operation.

Southwark keep saying they need money and yet when reading comments on the Dulwich Forum Southwark can waste £25,000.00 on a road improvement scheme at Bellenden Road and Avondale Rise which was not necessary beyond one resident suggesting it would look it would look pretty.

I would appreciate one of you letting me know why this is happening when there is overwhelming opposition to it and why you are cutting people off from using this and other parks.

I look forward to hearing from you."

Regards


Has anyone commented on this problem applicable to many people , no.

Do Southwark Cllrs care no. Do senior Southwark management reply no.

Parks should be free to all that pay Council tax.

Remember we all have to get old.

messageRe: Council parks to charge £2ph parking fee from 1 April
Posted by exdulwicher February 14, 09:49PM

sally buying Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Parks should be free to all that pay Council tax.
>

Pedantically, the park is free to anyone from anywhere, Southwark tax payer or not.

It's parking your car in the park that will cost money.

I appreciate that this answer is not what Southwark Council are aiming at but I'd suggest the easiest answer, at least in the short term, that you park on Court Lane / Eynella Road or on Gallery Road. Dulwich Picture Gallery even advertises the free parking right outside.

I strongly suspect that the introduction of parking charges in Dulwich Park will lead to a lot of that - people visiting the park but parking just outside the gates - which may then prompt further restrictions along those roads, especially if residents start complaining. If you were being especially cynical, you could even suggest that it's the prelude to a few more CPZ or to push for the Healthy Streets plan of blocking off the Court Lane/DV junction and/or the Dulwich Plough junction with Eynella...

The other result might be that they simply drop the in-park parking charge if residents complain about the on-street parking of visitors to the park - especially if it happens on a sunny summer's day and there's thousands of people all trying to park as near as possible to the gates. It'd be like school drop-off time outside Alleyns or JAGS!

I feel bad suggesting that because it's certainly not the result that Southwark Council or local residents will want but equally, I sympathise with your position.

Good luck with your letter.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was february 14, 09:49pm by exdulwicher.

messageRe: Council parks to charge £2ph parking fee from 1 April
Posted by Blah Blah February 14, 11:12PM

Having a car is a luxury. It is not a divine right to park it anywhere you choose. Genuinely disabled people will have blue badges and be exempt. Given the cost of insurance, MOT, petrol and all the other associated costs of owning a car, parking charges are par for the course.

messageRe: Council parks to charge £2ph parking fee from 1 April
Posted by womanofdulwich February 15, 11:01AM

We were told there would be 3 weeks written notice of charges in Dulwich Park.it has been less than 2 weeks. They must put up more bicycle parking in a safe area that is overlooked.

messageRe: Council parks to charge £2ph parking fee from 1 April
Posted by rupert james February 15, 11:23AM

Blah Blah

Your dislike of cars means you have missed the point that was made regarding parking charges in the post by spider69.

A car to him and many others with similar problems is a necessity not a luxury. Read his posting again.

You have more chance these days in winning the lottery than being approved for a blue badge.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was february 15, 11:25am by rupert james.

messageRe: Council parks to charge £2ph parking fee from 1 April
Posted by redpost February 15, 05:43PM

If you're genuinely disabled then you will get a blue badge, I know of several relatives who have obtained one for their genuine disabilities.

If you're just lazy then yes they are very difficult to get.

messageRe: Council parks to charge £2ph parking fee from 1 April
Posted by rupert james February 15, 06:42PM

It does seem that replies to this thread do not comment on the reason the point spider69 made.

Dulwich Park and other parks are now being priced out of use for many people.

I know of people who have disabilities confirmed by medical consultants as inoperable and have rendered them
mostly house bound who have had their blue badges cancelled after many many years after an outsourced Southwark Physio decided they were able to move when observed leaving the interview chair unaware of the pain this caused for days afterwards.

I would suggest you contact the Southwark News and ask them to send you copies of the stories they have covered. Southwark, wipes their hands of any decision. Not our fault guv outsource says this.

False claims for a badge cancel them.

But parking these charges will affect many many people who cannot afford to pay these charges.

Why is it so many people cannot see the damage being done to ordinary residents.

I wont post any more on this as it is pointless. Just wait until Oct 2021 when 2.5 million cars are rendered useless
and people will be really stuck.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was february 15, 06:49pm by rupert james.

messageRe: Council parks to charge £2ph parking fee from 1 April
Posted by first mate February 15, 07:43PM

Rupert James, you are absolutely correct. Just like PIP, assessment for BB are becoming ever more onerous and those in genuine need are being refused, not because they are “lazy” but to save money in any way possible.

I find it hard to believe that anyone with relatives who have been through these assessments in recent years views all those who fail assessment as merely undeserving and “lazy”.

messageRe: Council parks to charge £2ph parking fee from 1 April
Posted by Blah Blah February 16, 09:05AM

Most parks don't have car parking within them. It is not the council's fault if the government have made PIP and disability assessments harder to pass. The fact still remains that BB holders can park for free. I don't think charging everyone else is unreasonable, and no, I don't say that because I hate cars either.

messageRe: Council parks to charge £2ph parking fee from 1 April
Posted by mockingbird February 16, 10:09AM

We have been privileged to have this park so widely used and accessible to all. It is sad to think that some people might have to choose between the cost of parking and, for example, buying their children an ice cream. A stark example but the point is that for some people who travel to use the park, this can be another blow to their liberty and enjoyment.

messageRe: Council parks to charge £2ph parking fee from 1 April
Posted by redpost February 16, 01:38PM

What stuff and nonsense

How about the liberty of pedestrians, children and cyclists to go around without breathing in pollution and having their life expectancy cut down?

You can afford to run a car, so what's the problem with paying to park it.

messageRe: Council parks to charge £2ph parking fee from 1 April
Posted by paulu197 February 17, 09:42AM

You don't need a car when living in ED, it is a luxury. We have been here 6+ years, 3 young kids under 10. Not an issue with getting around at all. just some forward planning. If they charge you to park so be it.

messageRe: Council parks to charge £2ph parking fee from 1 April
Posted by first mate February 17, 10:31AM

Is that your response to Spider69’s dilemma?

messageRe: Council parks to charge £2ph parking fee from 1 April
Posted by wulfhound February 17, 12:11PM

... and if you can't afford ice cream for your kids (even at DP's rather inflated prices), you really ought to think about whether running a car (in an area with good walkability and, by national standards at least, excellent public transport) should be a priority. (Incidentally, I don't see anyone suggesting subsidised ice-cream for those who walk or get the bus and _still_ can't afford it).

I'm not sure exactly where Spider lives, but if he's the north side of the Champion Hill closure, there's the 176 along DKH which takes you straight to Upland Road. Or drive to Gallery Road which is about 15 minutes from DKH outside of school run hours, and park for free by Lovers Walk. Granted it's a mare at 8am, but if you have the luxury of choosing when to go, it's hardly slower than before. From even further north (too far to walk to Champion Hill) then there's the 197 or even the train.

Buses do carry scooters and toddler bikes - the latter at the driver's discretion, but in general if the bike is small enough to be carried as hand luggage they're OK with it at less-busy times. Same goes for fold-up adult bikes.

messageRe: Council parks to charge £2ph parking fee from 1 April
Posted by first mate February 17, 12:25PM

I think manoeuvring a folding scooter or bike as well as a dog onto public transport may be asking too much?!

The point is that there will be people with genuine disability issues who are not quite disabled enough, at least in the eyes of the currently highly punitive assessment system, to qualify for a BB. The Council needs to find a way to better accommodate their needs. As someone else has suggested, some of these Council projects seem to be quite divisive, pitching various community sections against each other.

messageRe: Council parks to charge £2ph parking fee from 1 April
Posted by Blah Blah February 17, 12:30PM

Councils are strapped for cash after years of central funding cuts. Adult social care is a more pressing issue than parking in parks surrounded by free on street parking and good transport links. It is a question of priorities and has nothing to do with pitching communities against each other ffs.

messageRe: Council parks to charge £2ph parking fee from 1 April
Posted by tiddles February 17, 01:40PM

Redpost I must take issue with your suggestions regarding getting a blue badge. A friend with MS (which is a known debilitating illness) has had their blue badge removed. They are having increasing difficulty walking.

I think you are unaware of the true challenges faced by disabled people in these times of austerity.

messageRe: Council parks to charge £2ph parking fee from 1 April
Posted by richard tudor February 17, 02:03PM

Perhaps people should reflect that the poster is 73 years of age, able to walk on level flat ground with difficulty.

This is applicable to many people.

Completing an mini assault course prior to getting to the park seems missed by some of the forums posters.

I also suspect that energy levels are not what they once were.

It would be interesting to see what their comments would be as they age. Now most do not have a clue.

Before answering with get a bus or walk consider what you might be like at that age or lower and also having pay an additional weekly outgoing to walk in your local park on a pension will in some cases will not be possible.

Cars are not a luxury for many people but a lifeline to the world.If transport is so good in and around ED why are there so many large and expensive cars parked in most of the roads Why is Sainsbury's car park alway packed if transport is so good and everything can be done using public transport?

Also no one has mentioned the huge prams that have to be used taking up a vast amount space on a bus.

messageRe: Council parks to charge £2ph parking fee from 1 April
Posted by Zig-Zag February 17, 02:15PM

It's a shame so many posters here seem so unsympathetic to older people who may not be disabled enough for BBs but can not walk a long way especially on muggers-paradise streets. Wait until you age....and you may well think very differently

messageRe: Council parks to charge £2ph parking fee from 1 April
Posted by Rosetta February 17, 02:48PM

tiddles Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Redpost I must take issue with your suggestions
> regarding getting a blue badge. A friend with MS
> (which is a known debilitating illness) has had
> their blue badge removed. They are having
> increasing difficulty walking.
>
> I think you are unaware of the true challenges
> faced by disabled people in these times of
> austerity.

Thus is terrible. Has your friend contacted their local MP?

messageRe: Council parks to charge £2ph parking fee from 1 April
Posted by Blah Blah February 17, 04:25PM

And many more elderly/ or mobility challenged people do not have the means to own a car. Free parking is not a right. I totally understand there are issues around genuinely disabled people failing to get BB's, and that seems to be the real issue here. I think more people would have sympathy with something being done to address that, than keeping parking free for everyone.

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