Marmora Man

Simple. The travellers do not have planning permission for their residences. Everyone is equal under the law. Therefore the travellers must submit to the law and clear the site. No special cases.

So the police have a description, an internet advert and, presumably, a track on who by and where the internet ad was posted. It seems to me the police are in the best place to solve this dastardly crime. Highlighting a 5 month old theft on EDF is highly unlikely to move the case forward one iota. All this thread serves to do is illustrate just how foolish, sentimental and mathematically challenged some posters are. The likelihood of the pooch thief being apprehended in ED is much the same as the likelihood of me winning tonight's Euro LOttery (and I didn't even buy a ticket)

I'll interpret the quote - as no one seems to have consulted the King James Bible "Jesus Wept"

Just made me think about tonight's dinner - rare steaks, dripping blood, chunky chips, crisp veg, and a good oozy cheese to follow - all washed down with decent red wine. What could be better?

lilly123 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > well why not, marnie has been stolen in a violent > attack, and now sold and she could be anywhere > now, so we are asking for help in every area we > can think possible, thanks for your concern > marmora man, dont think that is a nice attitude to > take, when trying to help others do you??? If you like me to rationalise my post: 1. The worst part of your report was the physical attack on the family in front of the child. This doesn't seem to be as important to you as the theft of a dog. This is, to me, just plain weird - placing concerns about an animal above concerns about people. 2. The police have been properly informed - and have resources to track down cars and licence plates. 3. The likelihood of the dog being found in ED is vanishingly small - so the post is a waste of time. 4. I am not sentimental about animals - and your post came up just when I had castigated posters for being ungenerous about the death of Steve Jobs, only to find an appeal for a lost dog. The contrast got to me. Nevertheless, I stand by my comment - John 11:35

Should we, in Dulwich, be concerned about a stolen dog in Canterbury? John 11:35

I do find the EDF strange - a very successful innovator, entreprenuer and businessman dies absurdly young from a horrible disease. Yet the thrust of most posts is to disparage the man, his life and his products. I have no doubt that a significant majority of EDF users own at least one Apple product. Against this a lost cat, or sick pet, will generate masses of posts wishing the owner well - witness the Help Find Marnie thread that appeared just after I posted this message. I am personally most grateful for the Apple story - for my Apple Mac, my iPhone and the household iPad that lives in the kitchen and makes web browsing, e-mailing and general reseach very easy. I recall working with PCs in the early 80s, struggling to remember MS-DOS commands, that today's computing is so much simpler is in a great part due to Steve Jobs and the company he founded. I do not condone the vacuous, mawkish and pathetic faux grief that Twitter is currently overloaded with and find the idea of floral and "bitten apple" tributes at Apple stores quite bewildering. However, I believe the life and work of Steve Jobs, the man, is worthy of applause and positive memories. Edited to add the "Marnie" comment.

Chick, you are so wrong. Sam is a brave guy - he didn't stop to make an economic evaluation he did his job as he saw it. Your rationalisation is too sophisticated - taken at face value no one should retaliate, respond or fight back for anything less than saving a life. This would be a charter for mayhem. However, if you feel that way - perhaps I could pop over and take a few bottles on wine or beer, maybe some CDs and a DVD or two, your phone would be nice too. Retaliation or trying to stop me would be futile - after all its only a few cheap items.

The Euro may have been created in the noble cause you describe. However, whatever the intention the fac is that the Euro is struggling and the struggle is, at least in part, because politicians put the cart before the horse. Political detente, social inclusivity and fiscal union are necessary pre-conditions for the creation of a single currency not the inevitable outcome of a single currency. BTW - the first use of the word xenophobe was in post 4 on 1 Oct by Hugenot - whose latest contrived and fatuous simile is possibly the most weird contribution to this debate and way OTT even for him.

MP - for clarity, are you saying the Economist leader supported Huge ot's position or DaveR's?

Transfer between London & the South East and the Midlands or the North is easy to achieve and sanctified by a long shared history; all these regions are within the one economic and fiscal entity, they are not sovereign states with separate political and fiscal objectives (Scottish & Welsh devolution and the NI Aassembly can be ignored in this context). You cannot, logically, compare UK to the Eurozone. There are those that would wish the Eurozone to become a one economic and fiscal entity - but it's not even close to that yet. Given the current problems there seem to be two stark choices - proceed toward the logically required fiscal commonality, which doesn't seem to have wholehearted support of the Eurozone electorate, or revise the financial / fiscal status status of the countries within the Eurozone so as to proceed toward a tiered set of Euro values [roughly as has been suggested North strong Euro - South weak Euro] - which will be immensely complicated and fraught with global economic danger. These sort of flaws were pointed out by Euro sceptics way back when - some, foolishly, are playing the "I told you so" game and enjoying the schadenfrude - others recognise that Europe is where it is and are attempting to fix the problem. This morning the news appears to be that Greece will not meet its own austerity / fiscal targets. The political imperative of an ever closer European Union can be understood - but political will is, of itself, insufficient to overturn the logic of the market. Nor can ever tighter yet increasingly unbelievable / unachievable "bailout programmes" persuade the market to suspend logic. So the original questions stands "Wither the Euro". I do not know and not being an economist I have no real solutions to offer but watch, in hope and horror, as the story continues to unfold.

I used to work in a big one at Northwood, Middlesex. We controlled all submarines and the rest of the Royal Navy from there. Some of Snorky's pictures look very familiar

Popped in this afternoon to top up with essential salad / bar be q supplies that had run low. Very friendly people, good stock and very welcoming feel. Liked it and recommend others give it a go.

The Smiley trilogy (again) after watching Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy last week.

However - beware. After filling everyone's garden with a minimum of 4 bins, and in some properties more than 12, Southwark council have just sent a letter warning householders of prosecution in the event that any bins are left on the "public highway". Helpful - given they haven't taken away redundant ue boxes.

James, Can the food standards agency prove the improvement in Public Health? I "believe" there is no correlation. The logical extension of your argument is for every household to be inspected and for dinner party guests to check the scores on the doors before eating with friends.

SJ - in Saudi Arabia the religious law is the law. I have a Saudi friend whose wife is Lebanese. Outside of Saudi she wears Western dress, drinks wine, drives and will lounge by a hotel pool in a bikini. In Saudi she wears a full burkha and observes the local rules. The far greater threat to the long term stability of Saudi is the, almost, complete lack of industry or opportunity for the young. Apart from investment in infrastructure Saudi oil money has not benefited the majority of Saudis - and this will create / is creating tensions that will be difficult to resolve without major overhaul of Saudi society. The Arab spring may not arrive in Saudi this year, but the ingredients are there. An autocratic regime, access to external influences via web, Twitter etc, unhappy youth and a burgeoning population with little stake in the country's wealth.

Joella Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > MM - teaching unions don't just oppose Free > Schools simply because they might affect members' > T&Cs. They'll give you a whole host of arguments > that will detail why they think Free Schools > aren't a good idea. > > Whether or not you agree with those arguments is, > of course, another matter ;-) That's fine - deploy the arguments, but don't block free schools which is the crux of the union position. Union members don't have to work in them - so why the opposition? Why are they concerned about competition, I can only conclude they fear it may show them up.

Nanny state, nanny state James. We are all qualified to judge food quality and don't need the council to do the job for us. I am in full agreement (unusually!) with D-C and Jeremy. Stop the surveys, cut the website and reduce the cost of the council. Our taste buds, eyes and noses will usually provideall the guidance needed. I can recall staying at a very comfortable and friendly farmhouse B&B - which had just been told it must either set up a separate kitchen and breakfast room or close down by similarly concerned council staff. The council alleged that by eating my breakfast in a farmhouse kitchen where there was a dog basket, a dog roaming around and the tea towels drying on top of the Aga guests were "at risk". Absolute cobblers - it's my choice where I eat, not the councils. They closed down - a great loss to walkers and climbers, as well as a financial loss to the farmer and his wife.

Lord Soley is chairman of an appeal to raise funds to erect a 3 metre high, floodlit statue to Mary Seacole to be sited on St Thomas; Hospital grounds, a hospital that has no links whatsoever with Mary Seacole but many with the founder of modern nursing - Florence Nightingale. See Mary Seacole. As someone with links to healthcare and a strong knowledge of the role and input of Florence Nightingale to nursing and the Nightingale School of Nursing at St Thomas' Hospital I feel that while the cause is laudable the site for the statue is wrong and seek others views on the matter. Over the last few decades there have rightly been moves to highlight and celebrate the contribution of black people to world history. The Appeal?s website describes Mary Seacole?s life in very positive terms, which is understandable. However, the sponsors have succumbed to a degree of historical romance and mythmaking that diminishes the role of Florence Nightingale and her link with St Thomas? Hospital. Mark Bostridge, biographer of both Florence Nightingale and Mary Seacole, has stated ?the false comparisons between Seacole and Nightingale [ ? ] do not belong to the realm of serious history?. A memorial to Mary Seacole should not detract from Florence Nightingale?s real and evidenced contribution to nursing. St Thomas? hospital is where Florence Nightingale worked to develop nursing and its design was greatly influenced by her thinking and input. The Nightingale School of Nursing at St Thomas? Hospital that Florence Nightingale founded led the training of professional nurses for over 140 years and sent nursing leaders throughout the world to cascade the Nightingale approach and discipline. Mary Seacole is seen as an inspiring historical figure and is today, significant in Black History iconography. She can be seen as an example of care and compassion and someone whose achievements were perhaps marginalised by some historians. She did support British troops during the Crimean War and also provided care and hospitality in the Caribbean, the US and Panama by provision of a hotel and sutler service. However, although she spent her last years in Britain she made no contribution to the development, philosophy and training of nurses in UK; to associate Mary Seacole with the development of nursing is to perpetuate a myth. Some errors in the Appeal website include: ➢ That due to racism the ?authorities? in Britain, and by extension Florence Nightingale, rejected her offer of help nurse the sick and wounded of the Crimean War. We should not foist today?s mores on yesterday?s actions. Mary Seacole met Florence Nightingale once, briefly, in or near Scutari; Mary Seacole?s own memoirs record the meeting as amicable and describe Florence Nightingale as ?that Englishwoman whose name shall never die, but sound like music on the lips of men until the end of doom?. Florence Nightingale acknowledged Mary Seacole?s good work by contributing to a Testimonial Fund when Mary Seacole faced bankruptcy in 1857. ➢ That at the British Hotel in the Crimea, ?she provided soldiers with accommodation, food and nursing care.? In fact Mary Seacole was a sutler, or supplier of goods. The British Hotel was largely a restaurant for officers, an outlet for fine wines, with a cheaper canteen for soldiers. It was not a dedicated hospital and did not provide nursing services. Mary Seacole was generous and compassionate, she provided herbal remedies to sick soldiers and visited the battlefields to assist the wounded, all of which she deserves credit for, but this is not what the Appeal is saying. ➢ That Mary Seacole ?received four medals including the Crimean Medal and the L?gion d?Honneur?. There is no evidence for this and today it is thought she simply purchased dress copies of these medals ? there is certainly no evidence in the medal records or the London Gazette. Jane Robinson, a Mary Seacole biographer, pointed out that army general?s letters from which Mary Seacole quoted, attesting to the importance of her work, lacked ?corresponding copies in their authors? papers,? and were ?inadmissible? as evidence. ➢ Mary Seacole was a herbalist; not a nurse in the normal sense of the term and it is not clear that she ever did regular nursing work. In Jamaica she worked in her family?s business, nursing only short-term during epidemics. Mary Seacole did not nurse after the Crimean war, or ever nurse in UK at any time. She did not train nurses, start a nursing school, write books & articles on nursing, mentor nurses, or any of the things that Nightingale did all her working life post-Crimea. The Appeal identifies Mary Seacole?s triumph as the over coming of racism and states: ?We feel that it is time she is commemorated [?.. ] by a statue, the first of its kind to a named black woman in the United Kingdom. We believe that it will acknowledge the important role played by ethnic minorities in British history and the success of our multi-cultural society. ??.. we want to celebrate a woman who succeeded against all the odds?. Almost anywhere but St Thomas;' Hospital would be a good site - anywhere along the Thames side would work, outside Richmond House in Whitehall perhaps or, if suitably scaled, alongside the Guards Crimean Memorial in Waterloo Place. She lived in Soho Square and in George Street, Westminster, so maybe these areas would be appropriate? There is a Mary Seacole link with Kennington where she attended a celebratory dinner for 2,000 soldiers in 1856, so perhaps Kennington Park that has long associations with popular causes and demonstrations would also be suitable. I am sure other more appropriate sites must also be available. Your views welcome.

Thanks every one - foolowing the combined advice I will pull together a basic wardrobe and buy local.

civilservant Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > oh? where? everyone seems to be in the business > of shoe-horning tall buildings into any available > five-square metres-worth of space! South end of Maze Pond

This is going to be temporary. Scaffolding generally looks awful. A little colour and, I hope, humour from a temporary advertising hoarding will add to the gaiety of life. For the moaners and whingers - give over, far worse happens at sea.

Dull, uninspiring speech that played to the loyalist Labour gallery rather than to a wider audience. I expect tomorrow's reviews and subsequent polls to reflect this.

I have to spend time in hot climes and need to fund appropriate, smart, clothing but haven't been able to locate a specialist store in London. I thought I would throw myself upon the collective wisdom of the EDF to see if anyone can advise where to shop. Thanks