DJKillaQueen

Some nice posts there. I was talking this evening with someone about this and we agreed that there are huge differences in the reoffending rates of young people that are locked away in secure units or juvenile detention and those who go through a YOS. We incarcerate more young people than any other country in Europe and something like 60% of those incarcerated reoffend. Now they are incarcerated of course because they have either committed a serious crime, or have gone through the YOS and continued to commit numerous lower level crimes. By contrast.....most young people that go through a YOS don't reoffend. And some of those that do reoffend once don't reoffend again with continued support. In my experience of dealing with around 30 local young offenders over the past few years, only two have continued to reoffend and they are now receiving custodial sentences every time they do. YOS are not a 'one shape fits all' service either. They have different services targetted at different kinds of offender and anti-social behaviour. Picking up on the ethos of the last two posts, I first became involved with young people one summer because of anti-social behaviour. I did exactly what is suggested above. I engaged with them on their level, found out what they were interested in - at that time it was mini moto's. Instead of telling them to shove off (like that would do any good) I basically started a little impromtu mini moto workshop in the courtyard...taught them about engines and how to clean the carb and tune it etc. One lad even decided he wanted to become a mechanic and decided to work towards that. His school helped immensely with gving him the extra help he needed with Maths and English. But we didn't have any more trouble from them and I had earned their respect. The authorities response was to send community youth wardens on walkabout once a week...pointless. So I absolutely believe in engagement, community involvement. Sure, not every little rascal will respond and you have to be tough on those that continue to offend......but most wayward teens, given some investment and mentoring will respond to that......that is at least my experience.

I don't think I've ever been in Londis.

I think Craig just flounced......can't really top that can I lol.

Craig83 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Straferjack has a thing for you Jeremy. I'd keep > your back to wall for a while unless you're that > way inclined That's totally uncalled for homophobia too (crossed post with bob).

No....the desire to see the end to a riot is not the same discussion as the role of a youth offending unit. There is no contradiction in my views. I believe those that do wrong should be punished and I am particularly tough on those that use violence. Many of the young people attending the unit have been guilty of low level crime and vandalism and are not beyond rehabilitation. Violent offenders are locked away in secure units by the courts. How many times do I have to point that out? Let's be clear on what a YOS is and the kind of work it does and the kinds of young people it services. Southwark has many areas of the YOS and they aren't all going to be based at ED. Go and do some research for heaven's sake. Edited to say crossed post with SJ who says the same thing.

Ditto Amen...... Can't reason with people who can't be reasoned with.

Hi Craig, The unit is simply a place for the probation and rehabilitation services. It's not a youth club...where criminal gangs get to hang out all day. Also 'once a criminal always a criminal' is not true either. There are many examples of young people who have not re-offended and have gone on to become productive members of society. I actually do live next door to teenage offenders......and I work voluntarily within the local community to tackle things like teenage crime...and have had some success. I've had my car vandalised, my garage broken into by teenage burglars so please spare me the 'you don't know what you are talking about' mantra.

And I'm merely expressing a point of view too. If people make unproven claims to back their view then others are perfectly free to challenge that. I haven't bullied anyone. I've simply questioned viewpoints that are based on nothing but unfounded fear and assumption. I know that because I know teenage offenders, I know how the system works. What you call bullying is just strong counter debate and of course it's hard to counter that if you have nothing to counter it with. The only people who are p1ssed off are those who don't want the unit here but have no real valid argument backed by evidence to prevent it. In other words, they don't want those kinds of kids in their area. Those kinds of kinds already ARE in their area.

Ty SJ.....I might not always get things right (or say the right thing) but I do get involved with the local community and try to do good things. And no-one can question my interest in the local area or even my input to this forum (both good and bad). I think edresi is just looking for a reaction tbh....

edresi10 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Its pretty amazing that the DJ lady does not event > live in ED but still insists on sticking her beak > into ED business. I live on the edge of Peckham Park and have done so for 23 years....so it IS my area........ED is not an island....get over yourself. And yes Ridgley, there are youth offenders in ED, along with Nunhead, Forest Hill, Camberwell, Peckham and so on.

The ward panel meets every three months and comprises of the Safer Neighbourhood Police Team, Community Leaders and residents/ members of the public. Anyone can attend. At those meetings, priorities for local policing by the SNT team are set for the coming months.

So James B, in other words, you don?t really know the reasoning behind the move when it is clearly obvious the current building is going to be demolished. Priceless. So I ask the next question. Is the Centre to be accommodated in the plans for the rebuilding of the estate? I 'suspect' the move is temporary because of the refurb which in turns leads me to accuse you of deliberately being vague (you made no account of the demolition in other threads for example) but will give you the chance to at least get a definitive answer on that. The local Police also said the same things about the Harris Boys Academy too before that opened....but it is an argument that could be used to save any reduction in the local SNT as well...wherever the centre is, it has police involvement as part of the probation service, and ED does have a low strain on it?s Police resources compared to neighbouring wards anyway. Many wont have ever visited before so real risk we'll be adding ED to their reportiore. Where is your evidence of such a claim? And Jeremy is right. The co2 emission argument is a non argument as the no. of bus or train services will not be reduced or increased as a result of a few teens travelling a bit further than usual. Apart from transport fuel....what other co2 concerns are there? I ?suspect? James tried that point because it appeals to the sensibilities of his electorate. Btw James, it was not me who said ED had good transport links.....look back over the thread.

Meeanwhile, back on Topic. The reason the building is moving is that the current building is in need of a huge refurb and is part of an estate that is undergoing a redevelopment as far as I am aware. I'd be interested to know if this is true and if the move is therefore temporary. James Barber has given no clear reason for the move...and has been asked to clarify the reaons behind it...i.e. are they financial or as you suggest lisa, temporary pending a refurb. Would be good to have some clarification on this. Will try and find out.

This is excactly the kind of cr@p that shows just how juvenile some people are. If you can't be civil, and not resort to insult...don't debate.

'lefty' must be the most misused word on the forum I think and generally means anyone that doesn't agree with the moral conservative stance of the 'I'm alright Jack' and NIMBY brigade....no? ;)

DB I was making the point that the idea that there will be an increased level of burglary in the area is nonsense and not backed up by any evidence. The offenders that go to the existing unit are from every area of Southwark, inlcuding ED and they go to to attend appointments only, and return home or to school or wherever afterwards. Any suggestion that having the unit in ED will create a new problem (or add to an existing problem) in the area, really is nonsense. James84 I have no time for the kind of post that resorts to phrases like 'hot air'. You are frustrated because your points are foundering against more informed and reasoned ones - that's all.

You haven't read a single word of what I wrote have you. Teenage burglars do not tend to go out of their way to burgle well securred houses in leafy areas. There is absolutely no evidence to back up your fear. Most of these kids are low level petty theives or vandals and I think it's really sad if you think you need to fear walking the streets. You already do walk amongst low level thieves and vandals. Tell me....do you have the same fear of the Harris Boys Academy.....crikey that's bringing almost 900 teens to the area when full....?

Ah ok...now we get to the real fear...teenage burglars. There are already teenage burglars in the area and in my experience most teenage burglars are opportunists. They look for portable items that are easy to steal and carry, and more often than not steal from those they know. There is no reason think that there will suddenly be a spike in burglary. That is not the evidence from the current location of the unit either. Those attending the unit have no reason to hang around and like I say, most of them are on probation with serious consequences if they reoffend.

No James84 (my post was directed at James Barbers unsubstantiated claims btw), I do happen to really believe there is no issue with the unit being in this area and have reasons to back that view up. Youth offenders are not Southwarks biggest criminals. Their misdemeanors range from low level vandalism to burglary. Dangerous teens are locked up in secure units, like all dangerous criminals. Not arguing for arguments sake at all...but giving a perspective from my own experience of dealing with teens that are offenders and currently under the probabtion service. Surely an informed view is to be welcomed in light of some of the scaremongering above.

Oh James...change the record. Firstly I asked you on another thread to provide evidence of any financial factors behind the move (because I suspect saving money is responsible for the move). You have provided no evidence of 'little economic sense'. So let's move onto social or environmental sense......what do you mean by that? I think you mean not having undesirable teens walking the streets of leafy ED....as though ED has no offending youths of it's own. I can tell you that it does. And as for poor offenders having to get an extra bus etc...tough....all part of the punishement for offending in the first place. Punishment is not about 'convenience' James.

I don't think I've ever come across a 'lady' quite like you nette (insert winking icon)

Summer do you have any understanding of what a youth offending centre is and how it works. It is NOT a meeting place for gangs. It is a place where offenders have to report to parole/ probation officers. Where things like community service are organised and other constructive measures to help young people from reoffending. If offenders don't turn up for their appointments they are in trouble with the courts. If offenders reoffend whilst on probation they are also in trouble with the courts. There really is no reason to be concerend by any aspect of the unit being in ED Road.....really there isn't.

There is absolutely no reason why this unit should not be relocated here. ED and it's surrounding areas have their own fair share of youth offenders.

If you go to the emergency dental school in the morning you will be treated. Get there early though, as soon as they open, if you don't want to be waiting all day to be seen.

I think the moment youths congregate there will be an instant response atm...and also they are arresting people too....all very jumpy.