Zebedee Tring

Insulting M&S supporters won't help you win your argument, UT, you'll just polarise people . I'm sure that M&S supporters can cook just as well as Iceland supporters, and no worse than them. And I'm sure that they understand planning issues just as much as Iceland fans. The issues before the Planning Committee surely relate to the acceptability of the proposals in traffic, parking and housing terms, not the merits or otherwise of M&S and Iceland

What's wrong with being a platform sweeper? Are these people members of some lower social order who are not allowed to have an opinion?

Some of the aggressive opinionated stuff on this thread reminds me of the bullying school playground language that I thought I'd left behind nearly fifty years ago. At least when we were in the playground we had the excuse of being only 13 years old. In my post above, I set out what is hopefully a balanced argument pro and con the impending ELL and SLL changes. It would help the debate if posters tried to follow a similar tone, whether or not they are in favour of the arguments presented by other posters

I can see both sides of the argument. Ideally I would like to retain the current services for Denmark Hill and Peckham Rye with the addition of the ELL. If it's not possible to retain the London Bridge service, then why not retain a shuttle service between PR and Victoria stopping at all stations en route, or would there be operational difficulties involved in this? If the SLL is completely ruled out in its entirety, then there should be more Victoria bound trains from Kent stopping at DH and PR. If none of the above options is feasible, and I was forced to choose between the SLL and ELL, I would choose the latter, because this is more likely to benefit my family's travel patterns. However, I can see why people who use Victoria and LB more regularly than I do would prefer the status quo.

Sorry Bic Basher. As I hope you are aware, my comments were actually not directed at you.

I don't see why posters can't have a sensible and adult exchange of views on a subject such as this without being insulting or abusive. There are two sides to the argument and both sides can be put politely, with opposing sides agreeing to disagree. It seems that anonymity encourages some people to say things online that they would not say face to face in public.

According to the Wikipedia item on Denmark Hill Station, the new Overground service is expected to be open in October. However, this may be wishful thinking on the part of the author of the item (and on my part as well).

Bic Basher Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > This route diagram for the proposed frequencies to > Thameslink after completion has two services for > Denmark Hill and Peckham Rye. > > 2tph from St Albans to Bellingham (which also > calls at Nunhead) and 2tph from Luton to Sevenoaks > which should give a 15 min service (4 trains per > hour) to the core section. > http://www.eastmidlandstrains.co.uk/SiteCollection > Documents/TLP%20Route%20Diagram.pdf Aren't there also 2 tph from Maidstone East to Welwyn Garden City via Denmark Hill and Peckham Rye? This would make six Thameslink tph through Denmark Hill, albeit on two different routes north of St Pancras.

I thought that a lift is to be installed at Denmark Hill in time for the Overground extension.

If I have understood the consultation document correctly, operationally it will be more difficult for trains to run from Wimbledon and Herne Hill through Blackfriars and on to the Thameslink core than trains from Denmark Hill. This is because the crossing moves that trains from Herne Hill would have to make would potentially conflict with other trains and thus would threaten the punctuality of a very intensive service. It would therefore make sense for as many trains as possible from Denmark Hill to go through the Thameslink core rather than terminate at Blackfriars.

Sue Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Zebedee Tring Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > I thought that Le Chardon's predecessor was > > Thistles Restaurant/Wine Bar and that many > years > > ago there was a branch of grocery chain David > > Greig. The thistle motif that remains in Le > > Chardon was the David Greig symbol - there's a > > deli or restaurant in the Herne Hill end of > Half > > Moon Lane that has the same motif and is > therefore > > the site of another David Greig shop. > > xxxxxx > > For some strange reason though, it wasn't called > Thistles, it was called Thistells, if memory > serves. > > Who knows why! I'm now told that "chardon" is the French for "thistle". Which explains the current name of the restaurant and supports my law of French names, i.e. if there is a restaurant/shop that acquires a French name, the prices go up. A long time ago I saw on a menu "Mushroom omelette - ?1.50. Champignon omelette - ?2.00".

I thought that Le Chardon's predecessor was Thistles Restaurant/Wine Bar and that many years ago there was a branch of grocery chain David Greig. The thistle motif that remains in Le Chardon was the David Greig symbol - there's a deli or restaurant in the Herne Hill end of Half Moon Lane that has the same motif and is therefore the site of another David Greig shop.

I too am very much in favour of a local M&S. Other people may want Iceland to stay, and that is their prerogative, but I don't happen to share their view. Thassorl.

It seems that the 176 and 185 are running, and possibly also the 12, 36 and 63. The three bus companies who are not striking because of the injunctions against them are Go-Ahead, Arriva and Metroline.

Yesstacey-lyn, it was a fairly raunchy underwear shop about eight years ago. I seem to remember son buying naughty knickers for girlfriend!

Thanks, Jeremy. Delving further into the canyons of my mind (thanks Bonzo Dogs), I seem to remember (possibly from another post on this Forum) that the person who lives in the upstairs flat owns the whole premises and doesn't want to make any changes - they have therefore left the shop empty. Can anyone shed any further light on this?

I think that this may have come up before, but the shop next to Wm Rose has been empty for at least 25 years (since we first moved into the area). Does anyone know when it last functioned as a shop and what kind of shop it was? It seems surprising that nobody has tried to reopen it in more recent times, especially as it is next to a thriving butchers shop. Possibly there is an absentee landlord who is unaware of how much the area has changed in the last few years.

But over the last 30 years, because of the Dulwich Estate's rental policies, there are far fewer "real" shops in the Dulwich Village such as butchers and greengrocers and far more expensive clothes shops and the like. It used to be a much better (or at least egalitarian) place to shop if you weren't very well off.

Undisputedtruth Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Iceland food is cheaper because they don't spend > as much on advertising, premisis, furnishings, > director bonuses, and packaging than Marks & > Spencer's. Iceland and M&S food may even be made > in the same factory. But this planning application will be decided on its planning merits, not on whether Iceland is better/ tastier / more worthy/ more bohemian etc etc than M&S, or vice versa.

rgutsell Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Hiya all > > The arrival of M and S in East Dulwich will be the > end of any remaining pretensions that East Dulwich > has as a "Bohemian" place. From that point on, we > will all have to admit that we are all fully paid > up members of the stuffed, conservative, and > aspiring, middle class. (!!LOL) > > Yours > > R N Gutsell I reckon that a good percentage of the so called "bohemians" who claim to despise the middle classes and all that middle classness stands for are themselves from a solidly middle class background but somehow kid themselves that they are members of the working class. This is something that I used to do when I was teenager but I grew out of it by the time that I reached my early 20s. People who kid themselves that ED, with its skyrocketing house prices, is not a middle class area need to get a reality check. That is, unless the people who say that they're working class mean that they have to work for a living and are not living off a private income, which would include about 95% of the population or more.

Why does every *briefcasing* thread descend into a class battle involving so-called posh people, middle classes, lower orders and chavs (and I emphasise "so-called")? This is a planning issue that should be decided on issues such as traffic generation, loss of parking and generation of housing, and not on whether, for example, the likes of M&S and Waitrose are now being invaded by customers who clearly some posters feel are bringing down the tone of the neighbourhood. N.B. *briefcasing* -an illusion to use of naughty word by dodgy geezer Matt Crawford on a certain radio programme.

Chillaxed Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I may be wrong, but didn't I read somewhere that > ED residents petitioned against Iceland moving to > LL back in the day? I seem to remember that when we first moved to the area 25 years ago, there was a Sainsburys freezer shop on the site, which was more upmarket than Iceland. It was replaced by Bejam who, I think, were subsequently taken over by Iceland - they then rebranded the store as Iceland.

Gavain Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > iceland would benefit from local global warming, > its a tip and lets face it, its a leftover when ED > was a chavtown, it mainly sells freezer food, > sacks of chips and packs of 24 burgers and other > junk to stuff the faeces of the chav as they watch > remote in hand their Messiah Jeramiah Kyle. You are Jeremy Clarkson and I claim my ?5. It's bad enough that you are referring to a segment of the population "chavs" but even worse that you are talking about their faeces. This could upset those of a nervous disposition.

About 45 minutes ago I looked at Iceland's car park and it was less than half full, so it seems to be underused. Someone will no doubt now say that very few people who shop at Iceland own cars while most M&S shoppers drive enormous 4x4s (an exaggeration I know).

the-e-dealer Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > No you have to set foot in anything before you > have an opinion. I Personally Hate Dog mess, > MacDonalds and Las Vagas but am unable to comment > on Nazis. Nearly an example of Godwin's Law, but not quite.