Rockets

Because the majority are push bikes with an electric motor fitted to the rear wheel (they just replace the rear wheel) and a battery pack hanging off the frame - they are not electric mopeds - some are 250W and perfectly legal but I suspect many are over 250W and not legal (but can easily be bought online - take a look at places like this: https://myperfectebike.com/ where you can buy a kit that will take your push bike to 70mph!!). And like Lime bikes are doing harm to the reputation of cyclists because everyone sees them as bikes and many of them are being ridden inconsiderately and dangerously - the term bl**dy cyclists tends to apply to anyone on two wheels with pedals whether they are a push bike, push bike with an electric motor, Lime bike or cargo bike ;-)!!! But clearly not working....which leads us back to my point on the need for tighter legislation, increased policing or limitations of cycle use.

As usual, there is a lot to unpack from a Dulwich Roads post! Do they know it was a tank-like vehicle that did the damage? Was the vehicle that caused the damage being driven dangerously or being driven above 20mph.... It seems that a lot of ideological guesswork gets applied to their posts - they are clearly not in accident investigation - thankfully!! 😉

They're still bikes though aren't they? Or do you categorise these differently? My trip to London was in the evening so far fewer social or commuter cyclists around but the problems posed by those cyclists are very different. I love how you position this as an "anecdote" trying to diminish the experience. Unfortunately, and the very point I was trying to make, this is the growing experience of most pedestrians and this is why there are likely to be increased calls for something to be done - and that leads down one path and that is tighter legislation, increased policing or limitations of cycle use (as has already happened in some city centres). And then that becomes a problem for ALL cyclists - myself included. In the desperate attempt to try to accelerate growth in cycling the powers that be have turned a blind-eye to pedestrian safety - I do laugh that you somehow think Lime bikes and delivery bikes are different to other forms of cycling yet the growth in cycling London, in the main, has been driven by Lime bikes and delivery bikes.

Because the majority of OneDulwich email subscribers are from the Dulwich area. Southwark Cyclists clearly not and it reminds us how much the cycle lobby tried to influence local consultations by any means necessary. Southwark Cyclists claim to be the largest urban cycling group in the world with over 9,000 members....one wonders how many of them tried to influence the Dulwich consultations. So thanks! 😉

There's more....good grief....;-) Seriously though, is this just bad luck? But still bikes right? I mean the "growth" in cycling is being propped up by Lime bikes so you can't exclude them from being categorised as cyclists can you? A bike between 35kg and 65kg powered by an electric motor to 15.5mph carries a lot more mass than a standard pushbike and therefore can do a lot more damage. Can it not? Clearly not the same as a car but still a potential risk.

So CBT was introduced in 1990 as a way to reduce accidents caused by inexperienced motorcycle riders. I do wonder if we are heading towards something like that with cyclists. I headed into Soho on Saturday for dinner and here is why I think something has to be done as bad cycling is becoming a big issue. We got the train to Blackfriars as London Bridge and Victoria lines were closed for engineering. As we came out from our house someone cycled a Lime bike up the pavement (our road is very quiet so no need for them to be on the pavement) Walked to West Dulwich and went head-to-head with another Lime bike on the pavement towards BelAir park. When we left Blackfriars, to walk to Soho, we started crossing the pedestrian controlled cycle lane on the far side of the bridge. Five bikes were approaching, three from Blackfriars Bridge and two from the opposite direction - it was two Lime bikes and three delivery cyclists. Not one of them stopped for the red light and the pedestrians had to pause their crossing even though they were under green. The walk to Soho was uneventful but Cambridge Circus was a nightmare. Lots of pedestrians trying to cross under the green light and Lime and delivery bikes trying to weave their way around them even though lights for them were red. Soho was full of the sound of ring/ring as delivery bikes barrelled down Old Compton Street. Now, I think it is ludicrous that the pedestrianisation of Old Compton Street was removed as now the pavements are over flowing and people are stepping into the road and the speed of the delivery bikes is causing an issue. Dinner was lovely and then walked to Haymarket to get an Uber - felt like every time you crossed the road at a pedestrian crossing or traffic lights you were running the gauntlet of delivery cyclists in a hurry and rowdy groups of (probably drunken) Lime bike riders. As we waited for our cab we saw a lot of cyclists weave through pedestrians crossing at the Piccadilly towards Leicester Square junction some moving at real speed (looked like groups of kids on wheelie bikes) and a number of very near misses - one involving a parent pushing a buggy. In the Uber on the way home saw a cyclist on a racing bike ignore a red light and nearly collect another cyclist who was actually pushing their bike across the crossing. Finally as we headed down Brixton Road there was a weaving Lime bike rider swinging wildly from the bus lane into the main lane. The reason: he was typing away on his phone with one hand - whilst wearing full ear headphones so chances are he had no idea anyone was behind him. And this is why something will be done about poor cycling on our roads because it is becoming a real issue that not only endangers the cyclist but also other road users and especially pedestrians.

Malumbu, are you Frank Spencer...you seem to be the most accident prone person on the planet!? I have cycled and driven huge amounts yet have nothing like your rap sheet....a few near passes when on my bike, one very close one on Battersea roundabout where a driver drove across me when they were turning left and once fell off my friends bike at uni because I had no idea how cycle clips worked, stopped at a set of red lights and did a slow mo, comedy fall onto the grass verge...much to both my and the drivers amusement!

To be fair Lime bikes weight 35kg and many cargo bikes are pushing 65kgs.

Well yes because the data is suspect you have was for cars only. I think this is one of the issues, no-one is collating definitive data on cycle induced injuries, plenty of data on cyclists injured. Even the DFT admitted when they put out the stats for 2022 that two people were being seriously injured every week by cyclists that the data was probably conservative because there was no formal method of data capture. Am I right in thinking that bikes and horses are the only two modes of transport allowed to use roads with no need for any formal training? Was the law changed to force CBT training on motorcycle drivers, am I right in thinking that for a long time you could just jump on a moped or motorbike without any training?

Has anyone said they're not enraged by that? Most on here from our side of the fence are able to acknowledge the problems cars and other vehicles pose. It just seems that when the same scrutiny is applied to bikes and the increasing problems posed by them to pedestrians then the pro-cycle lobby gets really irate. It seems we are pragmatic and balanced and others less so.

Perhaps Admin could confirm? No-one has outed the sub-committee chair and their work in the active travel lobby....it's all published public record - Dulwich Society published minutes and then search for thier name and you'll read about their work and awards for active travel lobbying. Someone clearly doesn't want the link to be acknowledged and that's fair enough - I am not going to go all conspiratorial but that does seem a little odd don't you think? The name keeps being redacted. Clearly something very odd has happened in the Dulwich Society and some don't want a debate about it. But DulvilleRes you are being utterly hypocritical as someone who comes on here demanding transparency over who is behind OneDulwich, you have also thrown names onto this forum about who you suspect it might be. And then you post the above - is that not the very definition of hypocrisy? What this all goes to show is the very point that I was trying to make. There are some who demand transparency -but only when it suits their agenda. Of course they did - we believe you, millions wouldn't! 😉 Perhaps share the link to the website to which you refer and we can see for ourselves?

Yes agree but at that same time technology is progressing to the point where it is very easy to assign ownership of a private bike to a single person. Agree but also there will be a tipping point where something has to be done. The focus on e-scooters was driven after people being admitted to hospital with injuries after riding them grew exponentially. I suspect it might be something like red light jumpers being injured or injuring themselves where someone says - how do we stop this. But it does take time. Look at floating bus stops which any rational human being can see are a really bad idea (especially in areas where cyclists are travelling at speed) yet all we hear from the cycle lobby is that they are great and they won't hear a bad word said against them. At some point someone will go (probably on a case by case basis) - this is dangerous madness driven by some blinkered nonsense about not wanting to inconvenience cyclists. The Calton entrance to DV is another example - cyclists carry too much speed into the Square - everyone can see the danger but the council ignores it. Why?

Snowy, how's that search going? Have you found anything to back up your claims that I was misrepresenting the facts of the case - you sounded so sure of yourself but your evidence hasn't been quite so forthcoming?

Yes Snowy, I also hear a DPD van also parked badly in Newcastle...but, a bit like Richmond Park nothing to do with Dulwich so not really a topic to discuss on the East Dulwich forum.... #pleasetrytokeepitlocal

It's not an attack it's the justification on why I see you as a pro-cycle lobbyist. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's not true and, to be fair, you have called me much worse. I am surprised you are not proud that I, and probably many others, see you as a pro-cycle lobbyist! Perhaps LCC might give you an award, like the Dulwich Society sub-comittee....nah I won't go there....;-) Quite, so if they wouldn't use bikes (as you suggest) because of regulation they aren't then jumping in a car to make the same journey are they? In central london Lime bikes are replacing walking and bus/tube journeys and Lime bikes are one of the biggest factors in the growth in cycling. Even out here I see neighbours who park Lime bikes outside their house so they can cycle to and from the station to which they used to walk. So registration and licensing is not that difficult is it - has that curtailed the popularity of Lime bikes?

I saw a badly parked DPD van today Malumbu!

No I use cycle lobby because there is a very obvious cycle lobby in at the moment - a group of people who care only for cycling and are utterly blinkered by it - the likes of Will Norman, Peter Walker, Rachel Aldred, Chris Boardman to name but a few. They speak, push, publish and promote cycle-centric narratives above, and to the detriment of, everything else. Why to I bracket you in that - because you come on here and parrot the things they speak, push, publish and promote - so you, and so many others on here, are an extension of it. In London I would argue the vast majority of them. I have argued for a long time that the "growth" of Lime bikes has come at the detriment to walking and public transport and given that the average Lime bike journey is still very short it seems to be backed up by data. And by your own measure you must agree then that if these are people moving to cycling from walking or public transport then the risk has been increasing? But we could see new legislation or laws for cyclists.....

The council's revenue collection officers were on Calton this morning - ticketing a load of builders vans. It's outrageous that there is no more signage and they are entrapping people. I am amazed the council signed this off and thought that this was ok - how this passes the legal threshold to be considered ok is beyond me. It's the front of the council to think that this is acceptable.

Yup, agree. The pedestrian crossing in Dulwich Village is a particularly bad one for this.

Firstly, I do not think that legislating against bad cycling will deter anyone from getting on a bike - it's a very weak excuse constructed by the cycle lobby - in fact it might encourage more cyclists as I know a lot of people are put off due to other aggressive cyclists - I have been chastised a hell of a lot for stopping at red lights by other cyclists. Secondly, you are making a huge presumption that if people don't cycle then they drive. In a city like London that is hugely misleading as a lot of cycle journeys have replaced travelling by foot or public transport - especially Lime bikes (which are very often some of the very worst offenders). I think you are trying desperately to create a reason for changes in legislation not to be considered but I suspect you're fighting against an incoming tide as authorities will be forced to do something (and as they also see the potential revenue stream). Some local authorities are starting to do so already on a localised basis and this will gather pace.

But this is exactly how you are using it. Only if you're starting point is that you are concerned more for cycling growth than mitigating the risk posed by cyclists. Legislation and laws are set on the basis of the latter not the former. This is why the debate has become so polarised because, on one side you have groups who care only for cycle growth and on the other those concerned about the risk posed by cyclists to other road users.

The controls are also to push parking onto other local roads to help the council push for CPZs as they take Dulwich one street at a time!!! 😉

Yes. We know. But as my mum used to tell me: "You only need one inch of water to drown". The impact on pedestrians killed by cyclists is nowhere the impact a car travelling at the same speed would have. Of course not. But it didn't need to be. So please, please, please stop using this as some sort of get-out for cyclists. Which is why it is important to consider the need for changes in legislation and laws when it comes to cyclists. But I am glad we finally agree on something: that it is not unreasonable to suggest we need injury/death by dangerous cycling legislation.

https://www.royalparks.org.uk/get-in-touch/media-centre/news-press-releases/regents-park-statement-royal-parks https://www.timeout.com/london/news/could-these-major-london-parks-soon-get-strict-speed-limits-for-cyclists-102124 https://www.royalparks.org.uk/sites/default/files/2023-11/Cycling-in-the-Royal-Parks-policy-statement-May-2023.pdf It looks like Royal Parks are lobbying the government to set a speed limit for cyclists in it's parks. None of the above happens because of any culture-war on cyclists but because cyclists are posing an increasing problem and risk to pedestrians. I presume Dulwich Park is the same as the Royal Parks in that they can only ask for cyclists to respect the speed limit - which hardly any do. Clearly it's only a matter of time before the change happens - no matter how much shouting the cycle lobby do about harming the expansion of cycling. We have to put pedestrian safety ahead of everything else - I still really don't understand how increasing rules and regulations would hinder cycle growth - it certainly didn't do anything to hinder car growth all those years ago!

But do you not think that, because these private roads have felt it necessary to implement these measures, that it is only a matter of time before non-private roads adopt it? Does the 5mph in Dulwich Park apply to bikes?