Rockets

I am absolutely 100% in favour of accountability. When you take a step back, take the blinkers off and actually take a look at what they were posting in relation to "Choose a good councillor" someone with a completely impartial eye would say that they approached each candidate and asked them for their views on the LTNs and posted their responses. I don't think you can accuse them of bias as they approached and printed the responses of each one (a couple did not respond in the first instance) - someone with a political agenda for one party doesn't tend to do that. Now, of course, two parties came out and said they would remove the LTNs in Dulwich and that was the Tories and the Lib Dems and it can come as no surprise that a group campaigning for the removal of the LTNS were pleased when two parties said that is what they would do. Honestly @DulvilleRes take the (red) rose tinted glasses off for a second. P.S. When you alerted me to the Choose a Good Councillor I went to check it on the OneDulwich website and stumbled upon a really interesting analysis piece that they did that I will post in the OneDulwich section that I had not seen before - so thank you for that! 100% yes that is still my position. You might find it implausible but for you the challenge is that my assertion is 100% true. And you are 100% wrong in your assertion that I am somehow involved in OneDulwich or know the people who are. Yes, a number of us post the OneDulwich Campaign Updates. How do we get them? Well, as one of the 2,100 people who signed up to get the campaign updates when we registered to be one of the 2,100 people they get sent to me every time they get sent out. Why should I not be proud that the detective work I am doing, fighting the nonsense narratives a lot of people on here put out, is picked up by a local campaign group? I am pretty sure that someone from OneDulwich probably frequents this forum - sees what we are all arguing about and uses the bits they find useful for their own means - and bravo to them - a community forum helping a community campaign! #powertothepeople No I may not be a lawyer but your relentless tactic of trying to insinuate I am somehow something to do with OneDulwich is starting to stick amongst some of your peers (and they are starting to repeat it) and that, my good friend, is potentially libellous. I have told you 1000 times - I am nothing to do with OneDulwich nor have any affiliation of any sort to any politicial party and you are repeatedly trying to spread a falsehood about me in many of your posts. I am all for good natured banter but you are repeatedly stepping over a line in a desperate attempt to attack me. The accusation is not true so please stop it.

Does anyone remember that time not so long ago that the trend was for removing as much street furniture as possible to make our streets safer....the polar opposite now seems to be in play....?

Let's be very clear some of her friends are cleary trying to say she lost her job due to a media conspiracy. This is nonsense. She lost her job because she broke the ministerial code of conduct - that has nothing to do with the media. Was she under the spotlight because she was outspoken and happy to aggressivley attack any indiscretion of her opponents? Absolutely. But what's that saying: those who shout loudest often have the most to hide...never has that seemed more apt? Given that scrutiny she would have been wise to have been whiter than white but she wasn't and she has paid the price.

But at the same time those she sought for advice told her, very clearly, she needed to seek specialist advice which she did not do and carried on regardless. So I think the jury is out on whether this was a legitimate mistake or not.

Her legacy will be the Deputy leader/Housing Secretary who was the Labour party's sleaze crime fighter who broke the ministerial code for not paying enough stamp duty on one of her houses. As Housing Secretary she probably should have known better. I wonder if she will defect to Corbyn where she will no doubt be welcomed with open arms and the words: "You did nothing wrong, it was all a media conspiracy comrade......"

Which is exactly why Rayner had to go - don't be the sleaze attack dog and then not keep your own house in order - the really shocking fact is she didn't go the moment this came to light because she knew what advice, and the advice to seek proper tax expertise that was given to her in writing by the very people she was trying to throw under the bus - she clearly thought she might be able to spin her way out of it. When you look at the facts, the advice she was given and when and her behaviour in the last few days it has been scandalous and just shows the contempt for the public intelligence some politicians have. Interesting to see a very unscientific vox pop on BBC News last night but a lot of her own constituents seem to want rid of her as well and to be honest if you have to lose your cabinet role for this breach of the rules then you should probably lose your seat too. That is the hypocrisy here and why a lot of people don't like politicians because they're all the same.

Two wrongs don't make a right. Labour ran on a manifesto of "we aren't like them" and "we are different" and"you can trust us/we will restore faith in politics". They are doing nothing to convince anyone that any of those promises are being met - they are letting everyone down. u-turning on everything and are fast-tracking the doomsday scenario of a Reform government. Even the runway on the "it's all the Tories fault" is running out. I dislike politicians because they cannot be trusted and Rayner just highlighted that with ribbons on. She should have been so careful after the focus on the electoral roll issues she had with the house in Ashton-under-Lyne and then under a year later this comes up. Clearly the advice she took included a recommendation to take proper advice that she failed to do - that's just daft and the most galling thing is that she didn't just resign when this came up - she tried to spin out of it but must have known she was toast. Trust is fast being eroded. I desperately want Labour and Starmer to fix this because the alternative it too scary to think about but the way things are going they are fast-tracking Farage into No.10. Labour are letting us all down.

I think the problem is Labour are reminding everyone of the awful Tory behaviour by behaving in exactly the same way - they promised they would be different but have been anything but and yes all this is doing is playing into the hands of Farage. Rayner has created a massive mess for Starmer and the party and I think his reshuffle is not necessarily for the benefit of the country but his political longevity - the real infighting within Labour is about to start now Rayner has gone. For everyone's sake (whether you support them or not) Labour have got to get a grip - it's been one disaster after another and I cannot help but think that things are going to get really difficult for them around the budget as there is going to be a lot of very disgruntled "working people" out there. Farage is just sitting there on the sidelines watching Labour fall apart and rubbing his hands with glee...very, very scary.

Ha ha.. only in your world does that not validate exactly what I was saying. Maybe share with us how you are interpreting those numbers then....I cant wait to read what hilarious spin you try to put on this....

They were unconscious...good grief....you're relentless. No it's not...it's a sick, childish attempt to make a joke about someone else's misfortune. It's beyond pathetic and it projects a very negative image but if it works for them and they think it makes a pint then great...for the more rational in the real world it may be seen differently!

No @Earl Aelfheah what I have a problem with is when people try to make a vested-interest joke like the OP did at the expense of someone who could well have been harmed in an accident - it's childish, unnecessary and paints the posters in a very poor light. Dulwich Roads did it too - it's pathetic: Again, you seem to be Dulwich Road'ing it by embellishing it massively - who said anything about 20mph - I said under 20mph. ALso I am not sure if anyone has ever been charged with dangerous driving when they were unconscious due to a medical emergency - the police were far more concerned with the well-being of the driver. Embellishing again. How have I minimised it? These tactics are laughable.

Some very interesting data from the Met following the recent Dulwich Village ward meeting. Just look at the massive increase in theft from person and how that compares to neighbouring wards.

Does anyone know what actually happened? I suspect not so all of this back and forth is nothing more than idle (maybe hopeful?) speculation. Only the person driving knows what happened - the rest is just noise. I remember when Dulwich Roads went on one of their 20mph/how does this happen/dangerous drivers everywhere tirades around a car accident. What actually happened? The driver had a medical emergency, pulled over as they were felling unwell and then the medical emergency took hold they drove into a wall at under 20 mph. Dangerous - yes (thankfully no-one was injured). Dangerous driving - no.

@Earl Aelfheah I know you'rea big fan of data and if you look at the first DV consultation and compare it to the most recent one the level was opposition was actually grown. So yes, I am very serious. Stimulated by 5 years of lies, manipulation and wasting tax-payers money. That's what people are angry about. I am happy that, even you, can finally acknowledge this - are you happy our elected representatives behaved that way? Do you now trust them now in light of this? Perhaps now you can see why so many are still aggrieved by the way this all came about and happened - that the views of local residents were ignored in favour of active travel lobbyists and groups.

She is done for. She has become an embarrassment to the party. It was only just over 12 months ago she had the issues with the sale of her house in Stockport and the electoral register. She can’t be trusted and will be gone soon I suspect and if you’re going to set yourself up as the party Rottweiler calling out Tory sleaze you had better hope no sleazy accusations land at your front door (in Hove or at any of your other properties). She is damaging Starmer’s already weakened credibility and becoming a distraction and people will no longer trust her - she knows it’s only a matter of time.

Hey @march46 you may have to adapt your chart - didn’t the % of people opposing the DV measures actually increase between the two consultations? What if you’re not at the top of the hill yet? Folks from outside the area may like it, a majority of those who live in the area oppose it - therein lies the issue - whose interests are the council protecting - us local residents or noisy lobbyists from outside the area and often outside the borough. What was it Peter Hill Wood once famously said after a tetchy Arsenal AGM: Thank you for your interest in our affairs!

What despite the fact that that was exactly what I just said....? Do you not actually read previous posts? Yes and maybe at the next local elections they can't lean in to a protest vote about the government and maybe people look at what is happening in central government (see Angela Rayner today) and say...you know what, these folks are treating us with contempt nationally and locally - maybe I will make a protest vote against them too. To be honest the only way I see them being unseated locally is if one of the Tories or Lib Dems withdraws from the race. Remember, ignorance (within the electorate) is bliss for elected officials. What politicians hate is when people are aware of how they have been behaving and the people hold them to account. So you should be thankful that there are people on there and groups like OneDulwich who are helping make sure local constituents are up to speed on what has actually been going on. This is what frustrates some folks - is that five years on people are still talking about it and angry with the way the local community has been treated by our elected officials. The active travel lobby seem to want to do everything rather than acknowledge what has actually been going on - why? Because they are the ones benefiting from it - some local folks are actually making a living from the roll-out of LTNs and then going out of their way to try and stop the very debate about their effectiveness.

Well I have already answered it previously so hardly dodged the question have I? Maybe take a look back at what I said in response to your last few questions on this. Ha ha, well clearly the fight did not end half a decade ago - it had barely even started half a decade ago but clearly you are of the opinion that once the measures went in they were here for good - despite the legal requirement for consultations (this was the first deception by the council as, if you can cast your mind back that far, they installed the measures for, ahem, "social distancing" purposes exploiting a loop hole in the emergency measures handed to them). I can assure you that people who actually live in the affected area still talk about it today. In those 5 years the council has misled and wasted huge amounts of tax payers money on something the majority of local residents do not want. So all I want is for the council to be held accountable for how they have treated their constituents and for the active travel lobby usual suspects to admit that the council may have used underhand tactics to get these measures through. Neither of which, I hasten to add, I think will actually ever happen! 😉

Re-read my post...it's clear what I meant - not that a political party being elected as being anti-democratic but if they started doing this after election with something you folks didn't approve of then I suspect you'd be all over it and taking the fight to them. I have already explained this so you're going over old ground again and, as usual, deflecting. But as @CPR Dave explains...Labour (or maybe it's just politicians of any persuasion or of any rank), has always seemed to struggle with accountability. How Angela Rayner can be in this position again after the Stockport home "I took expert counsel" issue is anyone's guess but it is of huge embarrassment to her, the party and the PM and I suspect she will have to go (and I do wonder whether it is folks within the party who are leaking this stuff to knee-cap her political aspirations as part of the on-going and future battle within the party).

This is exactly the point. If this were to happen I suspect many will suddenly turn from being game-keeper to then being poacher and moaning about the erosion of democracy. There is a huge amount of blinkered hypocrisy on show here.

You were the one who claimed the council had a mandate for these changes....which they clearly do not and you cannot offer anything to counter that. In fact, the majority of local constituents oppose the changes....the fact the council ploughs on despite this is something other than representative democracy in action...

Can you show us where the council has anything more definitive and compelling than the consultation results to determine whether they have a mandate to do this? No I am upset that the council, repeatedly, erodes the democratic process by doing things against the wishes of the majority of local constituents and that some stand back and congratulate them for doing so as that has far-reaching long-term implications, especially in light of the current political mood-board. You may be happy to turn a blind eye to this happening for things you support but don't come moaning to us if political parties start doing it with things you don't like using the model deployed for LTNs - because that is what always happens.

@Earl Aelfheah what you are fed up with is that this won't just be swept under the carpet - you're annoyed that those who live in the area are still annoyed by the way the council and their cheerleaders have behaved during this whole process and that people are still talking about it. You, and other council cheerleaders, would be much happier if the noise from the, ahem, "small vocal minority" had just died out. You're all upset that OneDulwich keeps this atop the local agenda and you resort to trying to demonise them and anyone who dares have an opinion that differs from yours. Look at your use of "mob justice" - a not so veiled insinuation that I am calling for stocks and public floggings in the Square of councillors and the active travel fan-bois. Come on - be better than that - it's so transparent what you're doing, a bit like the repeated accusations from the usual suspects that OneDulwich is funded by some fascist cabal hell bent on world domination via opposition to LTNs (one at a time) - it's really time some people grew up and distanced themselves from the playground name-calling tactics. Clearly, the only accountability (if there ever is any) will be at the ballot box because the council has steadfastly refused to take any responsibility for what they have done (to be fair Labour councils tend NEVER to take any accountability for their actions when things don't go well) and have repeatedly tried to mislead the general public (seemingly with great effect given even you came on here trying to claim majority support for the DV LTN when the polar opposite was true but buried beneath the headlines fed to you by the council). What is abundantly clear is that the council do not have a mandate from local residents for the LTNs - they have, however, decide to proceed regardless and spend huge amounts of tax-payers money on them. Perhaps they will get away with it but perhaps, if more people are aware, there will be an element of accountability at the ballot box - seemingly the only recourse available to those who have felt ignored and misled. But, at the end of the day, this is politics for you and why so many people distrust politicians of every political leaning now.

But they very much don't have a mandate for it. Therein lies the point. They have the power but not the people's agreement - despite what some of their most beloved supporters claim. Probably never...well not until folks stop trying to tell us that the council have a mandate to do these things or that the council gets held accountable for their actions. For many of those of us who live in the affected area there is a sense of injustice and they will never dissipate.

So you admit now there was no manifesto pledge on LTNs? Good, we are getting somewhere. As @first mate states the council very much did pledge to put constituents at the heart of every decision they make. So answer me this; what barometer on public opinion does the council have on local residents' views towards the LTNs? To be honest the only bizarre element of this is that you are arguing that some woolly worded manifesto blah blah blah that doesn't even mention LTNs somehow usurps polling of local residents in specific relation to their views on specific LTNs. A blank strategic manifesto does not give you a mandate for specific tactical implementations - your argument is massively flawed. You seem to have been hoodwinked by political spin at its absolute best.