Rockets

Earl - no it doesn't - the fact you claim that the dashboard shows that traffic has fallen "as a result of the LTN" shows just how much of the pro-LTN Kool-Aid you have been drinking and how you are moulding information to fit your narrative - something you seem more than happy to accuse others who don't subscribe to your viewpoint. What the the dashboard actually shows is that from around 2022 traffic, in many places, was lower than pre-pandemic levels but has been increasing and, on some roads, close to or exceeding the pre-pandemic levels - the overall direction of travel is an upward trend in traffic levels on many roads monitored during 2022. Of course the means and location of monitoring strips used to collect the data also throws some doubt on whether these numbers are artificially lower due to the sub 10kph issue but that's another discussion completely. In light of this and per the earlier conversation on TFL boundary roads this is also very telling from the dashboard that: Traffic has been rising across Southwark since the end of the 2021 COVID-19 lockdown, and was at 93% of pre-COVID levels in April 2022 at count points in the north of the borough, and above pre-COVID levels on the TfL network near Dulwich. Let's hope Cllr McAsh provides some of the data to fill in the blanks

Earl - really....I did not omit the "It is therefore hard to draw.." line form my original post did I? Come on, you're really clutching now. Do you always take everything spoon-fed to you as fact ? Surely if GPS data was showing a 20% increase in car traffic post LTN measures then you can start to form a conclusion or it certainly warrants further investigation - what Systra wrote is a classic: "move along please there's nothing to see here"? It's a 20% smoking gun! Honestly, spend some time on the data dashboard and look at the direction of travel of all of the car volumes on boundary roads in particular (you may notice the upward trajectory after summer drops) and ask yourself why the council might have stopped monitoring and publishing the data. More roads had been turning red each time they published it. One Dulwich's dialogue with Cllr McAsh may come to absolutely nothing but it is clear it is really worrying the pro-LTN lobby - surely if the results have been as good as they claim then there is nothing to be afraid of and they should be welcoming it?

Earl - you need to do better research - a bit like your claim a few months ago that cycling had increased by 40% much of what you post is unsubstantiated, baseless and parroted from the pro-LTN narrative. You are trying to throw doubt on the sources of the details I posted but they come from Southwark themselves (well the company that they employ to monitor called Systra). You will find the document on the SOuthwark website here (page 11): https://moderngov.southwark.gov.uk/documents/s101515/Appendix C 6 - Dulwich Streetspace FAQs.pdf The 20% rise in car use on the A205 post LTN implementation is interesting isn't it - being based on GPS data is interesting as well as it can't be fudged or manipulated like some other monitoring collection. Interesting too is that the council didn't put any actions in place to further investigate that 20% rise (although interesting that the council narrative did start to change about how A roads are designed for higher volumes of traffic as if boundary roads need to be considered the sacrificial lambs for LTNs) - there are huge swathes of Dulwich LTN boundary roads that have never properly been monitored (A205, Underhill Road etc) - can you hazard a guess as to why that might be? Also your claim that the LTN data for Dulwich "consistently shows a drop in car use" is also unsubstantiated, baseless and wrong. Anyone who looks at the Streetspace dashboard can see for themselves the patterns and trends - and this completely negates the council's promise of reducing traffic for all - interesting again that, since the trend for traffic on the dashboard started to worsen, the council has stop providing updates and has removed most of the monitoring strips - again, no explanation from the council as to why: https://www.southwark.gov.uk/transport-and-roads/improving-our-streets/live-projects/streetspace/traffic-data-analysis All of the above is why One Dulwich want to council to share more data and do more rigorous analysis because the picture is far from complete and basing conclusions on conjecture, hearsay or what you hope is happening is not a true reflection of what is actually happening. As I said before politicians like nothing more than to reset and recalibrate when they can blame someone else for previous failings and it may well be that Cllr Rose's departure is the catalyst for a long overdue reset on how the council manage this - bottom line is the current LTNs will not be removed but we can all hope those who are living with the LTN displacement get fairer treatment from the council moving forward.

There is more than anecdotal evidence about the A205 and the impacts of the LTNs - this from the Systra monitoring report - the 20% increase in cars from GPS data would be consistent with the anecdotal evidence. This is why One Dulwich want Cllr McAsh to find the incomplete/missing data as the picture is currently only telling part of the story. No traffic count data has been collected on the section between Tulse Hill and Forest Hill. A direct comparison of the changes in traffic volumes is therefore not possible.  Turning count data at the junction of Dulwich Common / Lordship Lane suggests a negligible (1%) change in traffic volumes on Dulwich Common compared to pre-scheme.  Telematics data (based upon estimating volumes of traffic using GPS data from cars) suggests that volumes of cars only may have increased by over 20% on Dulwich Common between Croxted Road and Lordship Lane. It does not record LGVs or HGVs.  There are no bus priority measures on the section of the A205 between Croxted Road and Lordship Lane, therefore bus journey times could be expected to be correlated to traffic volumes. Journey times were relatively stable, mostly showing no large change from preCOVID journey times for much of 2021, until a large jump in some weeks in June 2021. The scale of this increase suggests it may be due to a factor other than the volume of traffic alone. It is therefore hard to draw a firm conclusion about how traffic volumes on the South Circular have changed since the implementation of the Streetspace measures.

Ha ha....definitely hypocritical in my book! Also glad to see you have jumped right into the "paint someone as a right-wing fascist if they don't agree with you" mantra from the pro-LTN handbook....sorry you're really going to have to try a bit harder than that. I notice this is now a "hot topic" on the forum - that must be galling to those who claim no-one is interested or wants to talk about it anymore..... Bottom-line from the reactions by many on here is that the fact that councillors are engaging with One Dulwich is really annoying a few people - perhaps they should call Cllr McAsh and ask for the conversation to be lounged, sorry I mean don't engage in any form of debate with anyone who dares question the LTNs!! And Earl research suggests LTNs reduce road injuries, reduce car use and increase active travel INSIDE LTNs - I think one of the things One Dulwich is pushing for is the missing data from the council to determine whether that is happening outside the LTNs too that might be impacting the health of people who live, breathe or are educated on those roads - surely that is a good thing? Cllr McAsh always said that LTNs could only be considered a success if everyone benefitted so good on him for picking this up - let's see where it leads. Local, regional and national politics were one of the reasons LTNs became a thing during Covid and those same things are the reason that will probably spell the end to them as well - it's started already with the comments from Sadiq.

Ha ha...well maybe we/I stop characterising those behaviours when those behaviours stop being the go to position by many of the people who have liked your comment - you know who you are!!! And I must admit your calling out of irksome characterisations is massively undermined when you use an irksome characterisation to make your point......somewhat hypocritical don't you think?

Anyone know what is going into the old bank in Dulwich Village? Definitely work going on inside it.

Oh my...the LTN lounge police are really showing their colours aren't they - it's really quite sad that people think this type of behaviour is acceptable nowadays as they try to suppress discussion just because they are happy with (and no doubt directly benefitting from) the measures? How they all jump in and try to say "oh this is not about East Dulwich" yet never police any other thread that talks about issues not immediately and directly linked to SE22 postcodes only. And Jeni - the only link I have with One Dulwich is that I signed up to their email list and one of those 2000+ dots on the map of Dulwich is my registration - beyond that I have never engaged with them so if you are trying to paint me as one of the people behind it you are gravely mistaken. Perhaps you might want to ask the same question of some of the residents groups on Melbourne Grove and groups like Clean Air Dulwich about their relationships with, and discussions with, the council! Bottom line is that there are many on this forum who hate to hear that their beloved LTNs may not be as universally popular as they think and are terrified that groups like One Dulwich exist and are now, finally, getting a hearing with the council and what that might mean for their nice quiet streets. They are terrified of anything that might level the playing field because they know what the outcome is if the council starts actually properly analysing what is fair and equitable to everyone. With Cllr Rose leaving this might be the chance for the council to repair the damage she, and her team, did and rebuild some bridges with many parts of the community.

I think that is what happens when people lobby to have threads lounged. There always used to be one thread where everything could live on LTNs but that has now been buried and so really all that is happening is those that spend their time trying to get something lounged are just reaping what they sow and admins rules on needing dedicated news etc means there can no longer be a single discussion thread as there was before because it gives those who lobby to get things lounged to say it has gone off topic from the title.

I think the problem is that there is now such a huge gap between older more established artists who have a huge back catalogue of work and newer artists. The music industry has become more fickle as its audience is more interested in individual Tik-Tok tracks than albums and because no one can afford to tour (unless you are a well established artist already) then artist shelf-life is greatly diminished. Headliners need a body of work that everyone knows - just look at the reaction the Foos got in their surprise slot this year. Also, there are so many people going to Glastonbury now that you need a huge name to fill the hill in front of the Pyramid stage. I remember going in 2004 and Elbow were playing the Pyramid stage mid-afternoon and there was hardly anyone there (which was good because we could get to the front) but then James Brown on the Sunday at a similar time was rammed. I also used to go to Coachella and so much of Glastonbury seems now to have adopted some of the more negative elements of that festival - where being seen there or saying you were there has become more important than actually being there - the negative effect of social media. I suspect Elton will go done as one of the all time great headline acts and I do wish I had been there - in the same way that I was glad I saw Bowie, James Brown and Van Morrison over the years.

What must be really galling for the pro-lobby is that three years after it was set-up One Dulwich is finally getting traction. Now Cllrs McAsh, Newens and Leeming May only be paying lip service by meeting but with this meeting, funding for future projects shelved, Sadiq blaming Boris and urging residents to challenge bad LTNs there is a chink in the LTN armour and maybe, with the mayoral elections fast approaching Labour HQ are concerned transport (LTNs, ULEZ expansion, TFL funding) issues could become part of the narrative and maybe they will start listening to and addressing resident concerns. And remember One Dulwich only came about because there was a section of the Dulwich community (2100 postcode identified sign-ups) that felt they were being ignored by the council in favour of those residents and others who had vested interests in seeing LTNs rollout and be seen to be successful. Maybe it will come to nothing but it is encouraging Cllr McAsh is engaging and promising answers.

As I pointed out to you it does relate to East Dulwich….but you know don’t let the truth get in the way of a good story and all that….keep trying….

Oh dear Bels - you really are getting desperate aren't you? What on earth are you scared of? Does it annoy you so much that people may have an opinion that differs from yours that you feel the need to supress that viewpoint? These attempts to get things lounged constantly reflect very poorly on you and the other pro-LTN lobbyist "lounge-police". Here's a piece of advice: If it bores you so much try not to engage. P.S. Last time I looked East Dulwich Grove was in East Dulwich, Cllr McAsh is still the Goose Green councillor (a ward within East Dulwich) and the incomplete data relates to many roads in East Dulwich - so the discussions do, in fact, relate to East Dulwich. Maybe you want to retract your brazen attempt to get the thread lounged?

Problem is that the music industry is in turmoil and there is a massive dearth of current "headline" talent but the main stages at Glastonbury have always been about heritage acts (in some shape or form). But look beyond the Pyramid and Other Stage and there was a plethora of diverse musical talent on show (the schedule this year was phenomenal for the choice) - but that was always the point (certainly from my experience at the event in previous years) the things you discovered by accident when wandering between the two or three headline acts you had to see on the main stages. Problem is the event is so painfully white, middle-class and middle-aged - Dulwich is always very quiet during Glasto weekend!!! 😉 I always laugh when I used to see cars parked in the Dulwich area with their Glastonbury car park stickers in the windows like a badge of honour - most people tear it off the moment they leave. There were a couple of cars that still had the stickers from many years - like aircraft kills painted onto the side of a WW2 fighter! I had friends who even kept their wrist-bands on for weeks after the event finished - I was like, really......who are you trying to impress? And remember they had to increase security at the behest of the local council because the fence-jumping had become such a problem, they reckon over 100,000 jumped the fence in 2000 and they cancelled the 2001 event so they could improve security.

I do wonder what will happen when the Lordship Lane contra-flow comes into effect as this will overlap the A205 works at Croxted for a few days at least. Pretty sure Crystal Palace Road will be used as a diversionary route by many during the 5 months of work.

DuncanW - based on Admin's guidance (it needs to be new information and/or breaking news and relates to an East Dulwich LTN) it is perfectly within the rules for this part of the forum - so, by all means, keep moaning about it...and by default pushing it to the top - doh!!! 🤦‍♂️ Very glad Cllr McAsh is engaging with One Dulwich it will be interesting to see what comes of it (if anything as I suspect Cllr McAsh is often told to toe the party line by Southwark/Southwark Labour HQ). As much as some of the usual suspects would very much like any debate on LTNs to be suppressed it's clear there are a lot of Dulwich residents that are demanding answers from the council and councillors and are not happy to accept the nonsense narratives those on the pro-LTN lobby (who know who you are) would like everyone to believe. As Alice says...it is very much not over and One Dulwich did ask some very relevant questions. We got our OneDulwich leaflet through our door a day or so ago so good to see they are keeping it top of mind for residents (for those of you on the pro-LTN lobby side who don't live in Dulwich, or Southwark for that matter - ahem click on the link to see what the leaflet looks like! 😉 )

Interesting update from them. Campaign Update | 27 June 1. Meeting with Southwark’s new cabinet member for streets One Dulwich met Cllr James McAsh, Southwark’s new cabinet member for the climate emergency, clean air and streets (and ward councillor for Goose Green), on 23 June. Dulwich Village ward councillors (Cllrs Newens and Leeming) were also present. The meeting lasted an hour. Why the LTNs don’t work We explained to Cllr McAsh that One Dulwich is an apolitical grassroots campaign, run by volunteers, with more than 2,000 supporters. We said that: we fully support the Council’s policies of reducing car use, reducing carbon emissions, and making cycling and walking safer, but that the LTNs across Dulwich are not achieving these aims. Instead, they displace traffic, delay buses (which are key to reducing car use), damage local shops and businesses, and discriminate against vulnerable groups, especially those with disabilities; many of the roads that have taken the displaced traffic are roads with schools, with high numbers of children walking, cycling and scooting along them; Southwark’s data on traffic and air quality is incomplete, hard to access, and hasn’t been updated since September 2022. The Dulwich Village junction We said that, in an attempt to find a compromise solution, we wanted the Council to: amend the 24/7 closure of the junction to timed restrictions, in line with the rest of Dulwich Village (and in line with the Council’s vision of Dulwich as a “school travel zone”) – although we pointed out that this on its own would not solve the problem of peak-hour congestion, caused by traffic displacement, on roads like Croxted Road, Burbage Road, and East Dulwich Grove, for which mitigations are needed; open the junction at all times for Blue Badge holders, and for health professionals visiting vulnerable people at home (for example, GPs, community nurses and midwives, and carers). We pointed out that various council officers have, over the past year, put in writing that the Council is investigating the potential for access for vulnerable groups. We also said that, despite repeated requests, the Council has never done an audit of how the health and social care needs of Blue Badge holders are impacted by the junction closure. Cllr McAsh’s response Cllr McAsh said that: there is no plan to revisit the decision to close the Dulwich Village junction in the near future – although he agreed that, in principle, everything can always be amended; he would look at the issue of bus delays on LTN boundary roads like Croxted Road, Dulwich Common (the South Circular) and East Dulwich Grove; he would take up the issue of incomplete data; he advised business-owners to raise concerns with ward councillors, but agreed that shops and businesses should be consulted on issues that affect them; he wanted us to email him the various written assurances made by council officers about the potential for access for vulnerable groups and those who care for them; he would come back to us with a substantive response to all the issues we had raised in two months’ time. When we queried why his investigations would take so long, he said that he would respond sooner if possible. As the meeting concluded, we said that One Dulwich will continue campaigning unless and until the Council finds a better and fairer solution that takes into account the health and social care needs of all groups of people. 2. New One Dulwich leaflet Please see our new leaflet, which is being distributed by volunteers across Dulwich over the next few days. If your road hasn’t yet been leafleted, and you can help, please email [email protected]. Thank you for your support.

Amended accordingly...5 months of chaos and disruption.

The councillors are in a difficult position and have definitely taken a step back in terms of communication and engagement with their constituents but who can blame them - they created a big issue for themselves and they are politicians so they don't like to be held accountable. They all (bar Rahda Burgess) backed the controversial Streetspace/LTN measures when they were first announced and many doubled-down and backed them despite many of their constituents being negatively affected by them and opposing them. It felt very much like a three-line whip from the powers that be and I am sure many councillors could see the negative impact the measures were having on constituents but were unable to speak their mind. In the same way they used covid as the smokescreen to roll out the measures they used it as the reason not to formally engage with constituents or give constituents a platform to voice their views - councillors were happy to embrace arms-length politics because it allowed them to try to control the narrative - some would wholeheartedly endorse the views of the most rabid supporters of the measures but block and deposition anyone who dared to question them and they could because they knew constituents no longer had the platform to engage, Meanwhile opposition parties would be more than happy to engage to try to create a platform but being in opposition is easy - it's when you occupy the seat that things get more difficult. And post Covid the arms-length politics has stuck. Cllr McAsh, to his credit, did try to engage on here but you could see it was a thankless task and I suspect when this forum was re-birthed he took the decision not to engage via it. And why wouldn't he - as Cllr Rose found out being the figurehead of a controversial programme comes at a huge political, and no doubt personal, cost And this is not isolated to this issue in this area - unfortunately politics is becoming so polarised that national, regional and local politics are all heading the same way - only engage via carefully curated and approved channels and do everything you can to avoid having to meet the people you represent. Or maybe there is even a more cynical angle which is, and may go to explain why people are saying there are no longer councillor newsletters etc, councillors are only ever present when they want your vote and they don't need your vote right now! You can probably expect to see and hear from them as we head towards the Mayoral elections next year when they will be encouraged to rally support for Sadiq Khan.

That guy rides like an idiot. Often see, him bombing across Turney and up Calton….never looks like he is completely in control of it and riding way too fast - dunno what he has in the back but the speed he hits speed bumps I hope it’s not fragile….

Yeah I saw a group jacking three of them near Alleyns last week. They lift the rear wheel, run with the front wheel on the ground then drop the rear wheel to break the lock and off they go….click, click, click, click

If you see any kids on black bikes, dressed top to toe in black and wearing either a balaclava or mask then treat them with suspicion. When my wife had her phone stolen by one such kid the police said they all wear identical outfits and ride identical bikes so it makes identification very difficult if they are ever caught.

It seems Thames Water are going to be doing extensive works between the Townley and Heber junctions on Lordship Lane starting on July 3rd for five months until the end of November. Lordship Lane will be subject to three-way traffic controlled lights……brace yourselves as it is likely to be chaos.

DKHB - are you still trying to claim that traffic in London was slower years ago? Where are you getting this data from? There is another option - maybe take into consideration that around 11% of all London daily journeys are taken by bus whilst only around 3% are by bike. Stop closing bus lane infrastructure to facilitate bike infrastructure as the bike "revolution" - with all the millions of £ invested in it and only an 11% rise between 2020 - 2022 - is not clearly happening. Time for transport planners in London to have a complete reset and base London traffic planning on a realistic future outlook instead of this utter obsession that somehow London is going to magically turn into a cycle-centric city. It won't and their fanatical obsession with it is killing the city.

Mr Chicken - good on you. It shows a lot about someone if they are prepared to admit they got something wrong and retract something ….shame a few of your cohorts don’t have the emotional intelligence to take a leaf out of your book ;-).