Saffron

Ellie78, interesting that you say you desired CBT as you describe your decision based on being cautious/pessimistic about drug treatment options. I can actually say that I felt the exact opposite! I felt cautious/pessimistic about therapy because past experience had shown me that this option could make me worse before I felt better, and could take longer than medication to produce any improvement. Are these good decisions? Well, if we feel better, then I guess they are! :) The main thing about treating postpartum depression (or any mental illness), is to keep an open mind not only for others but for ourselves too. I have to ask myself, if medication hadn't worked, would I have tried therapy? I like to think I would have tried just about anything, not only for my own sake but for my family! Therea are so many different ways to treat depression, everyone's sure to find something to help if only they keep an open mind. xx

littlebelka Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Saffron, I have described my own experiences and > how I was treated and to what conclusions I came > to. > I do not condemn people who took medication and do > not classify them as the reckless parents and > burden to the tax payer. To some people medication > helped, to some not. I have considered that for me > the pills would not be of much use and I stated > the reason why I do think so. > > P.S. What style of yoga do you do? > > intexasatthe moment, thanks a lot for > understanding. > I am as well registered at Forest Hill Rd and I do > agree that lots of things depend on practitioner. Well, thanks for coming back to clarify, but it still doesn't explain why you stated... > Even if someone gets these pills for > free, taxpayer still pays for this. The taxpayer pays for ANY treatment that someone gets on the NHS for postpartum depression, regardless of whether it's drugs or therapy. It's totally irrelevant. Are you saying that the NHS should not offer drug treatments for depression because the money goes to drug companies? Really that's muddying the water on the issue of treatment options, and it should not be an individual's over-riding concern when trying to chose a suitable treatment, particularly because the same paradigm applies to therapists. I also think the statement is out of place on a thread where the OP is asking for help on postpartum depression and has chosen medication as a treatment option. But, feel free to disagree. I'm just expressing my opinion.

What does "fast-tracked" mean? I was told by an NHS GP that I would have to wait 14 wks to see a therapist.

LondonLogCo Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Curry anytime is a cure all & the sun did briefly > shine. > > My youngest boy put his arms around me and kissed > my head. > > "Kiss for a not well daddy" > > Bless him. :)

I could be wrong (I'm sure someone will jump in with more info in that case!), but I think your child can still have the MMR combined jab even if she's had rubella. However, if there's a reason why she should have separete jabs (eg, perhaps bad reaction to one component of previous jab, or some similar clinical reason?), then I think you can ask for separate immunisations through your local GP. You may still have to pay something extra, but your local surgery could order them and administer them, provided that your GP recognises the medical necessity.

Yup, works either way. ;-)

Well, considering that in the UK rabies was eradicated in the early part of the last century, do be sure to tell the newspapers if you find a rabid cat! ;-)

littlebelka Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Even if someone gets these pills for > free, taxpayer still pays for this. Wow, that's a hugely inflammatory statement. The NHS was set up to treat ALL illness at the point of access without prejudice, because its mandate is not to pass moral judgement but to provide medical treatment to all who seek it. It does not apply a sliding scale of morality to the people it treats. > Yoga practice > relieved the symptoms, as the pills would do, but > who would profit from yoga on the long term? I've been practicing yoga for ~15 years. Yoga could not relieve my symptoms. I've also had various types of therapies, and none have been as effective as medication. However, I do recognize that these things help other people, and I'm all for anything that helps. There's no point to condemning a treatment for other people just because it's not for you. > > Medical Professionals were very keen to offer me > drugs and looked at me like at some idiot, because > I refused to take those pills. Only the CBT > therapist said it is my choice to take them or > not. Otherwise nobody had a basic conscience to > say a word about side effects. People just acted > as the salesmen. I made research later and was > really appalled. How can I be sleepy with 2 > children under three years old? What if my child > will run on the road and I am slowed down and > would not be able to stop her on time? Or feel > dizzy and tumble down the stairs while holding the > baby in my arms? If anything would happen it would > be I to blame, why I haven't read the instruction > B4, what I was thinking about when accepting the > treatment. I had enough of such situations. So the > next time I go for the therapist straight away and > won't even speak with GP about it. I'm sorry you had a bad experience, but it sounds like you're now passing judgement on people who do choose to take medication? So you basically think that everyone who chooses sertraline is an irresponsible parent because the medication might make them dizzy or sleepy, etc? I was aware of the possible side effects, and I still chose to take this medication. Sertraline never affected me in such a way that I could not look after my daughter! Obviously I would have stopped taking it if there were real problems!! I do apologise if I've misunderstood your post. To me your post came across as very judgemental of medication as a valid therapy for PND or depression. If that's your personal experience, fair enough. But to seem to condem this as a valid treatment option altogether comes across as judgemental, because different people have different experiences of depression and recovery. Not everyone who chooses medication had it forced on them by a drug company, or is an irresponsible parent sucking up valuable tax-payer money. Again, sorry if I got the wrong end of the stick. That's just how it appears from this end. Differnt things work differently for different people. Just because something doesn't work for one person, doesn't automatically make it bad for everyone else. xx

Ellie78 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I was pressured to take meds - it was the only > real option offered to me for PND. I'm still not > sure it IS PND in many people's definition of it - > if it was/is then then it is relatively mild in > comparison to some. My low mood was and is caused > by sleep deprivation, which I've always responded > to very emotionally, baby or no baby. I felt > disappointed that my only option (according to the > NHS) was drugs - I didn't feel they were for me at > the time, and I still don't. I felt that my body > was already de-stabilised by birth, bring, and > sleep deprivation and I didn't want to add to that > - and I wasn't (and am not now) at such a low > point I didn't care. I'm still teary at times, > still find it hard to cope with little sleep, and > I am STILL on the waiting list for CBT, which I > insisted on. I first went to the GP at the > beginning of Jan, when my son was just 6 months, > but I'd talked to them about my mood before that, > at about November - the HV recommended meds then > too. > Grr. anyway. I have come to terms with my low > mood/no sleep. I feel much better when my son > sleeps for a bit or has a good stretch. It's been > quite rocky for us in that department. > > I wish there was a more holistic approach offered. > I think midivydale is right - there are lots of > things you can do to help yourself, with regards > to diet/behaviour. I really had to push for CBT, > and I'm still pushing for it (it was only offered > to me on Mondays/Tuesdays and I now work both > these days - I can't take time off). I'm sure > that's not everyone's experience but it was mine. > Nutritional advice would also have been good. And > a blood test - I asked for one, to check iron > levels etc, not given. But my GPs are rubbish and > I am moving surgery. Unfortunately the treatment for PND can be quite hit-or-miss on the NHS it seems. In contrast to your experience, I was initially told that drug therapy was not available. I was having suicidal ideations, and I was told that I could only have counselling as therapy - after a ~14 week wait! The GP also brushed off my request for bloodwork, despite a history of haematological problems. After I changed to different NHS GPs at a different clinic, I got the treatment I wanted that helped me. I also got a blood test, which resulted in an immediate referral to a haematologist. The GPs have also said that at any point I can also have a referral to a dietitian if I want it. In retrospect, I should have moved to a different surgery sooner. Definitely seek additional opinions elsewhere if you're not happy with your treatment options. The NHS should not confine people to a single treatment option because everyone is different and will be helped by different things, whether its meds or counselling, diet, etc. xx

Sertraline is classed as safe for b/fing and does not affect the quality of milk. xx

No, class itself may be relevant to many things. However, it may be that this particular Class Calculator is measuring dimensions which are irrelevant to many of the individuals it attempts to measure, unless you're purely interested in distilling a complex social phenomenon like "class" into a numerical indicator.

No, my point was that they're ALL irrelevent. (See H's point above, re "mental twit juice".)

littlebelka Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Here are some side effects of Setraline, could > anyone tell me can one afford such things in the > above circumstances? > http://www.nhs.uk/medicine-guides/pages/MedicineSi > deEffects.aspx?condition=Depression&medicine=sertr > aline&preparation= > > Very common: More than 1 in 10 people who take > Sertraline hydrochloride > difficulty sleeping > dry mouth > feeling dizzy > nausea > sexual dysfunction including ejaculation problems > or erectile dysfunction. Sexual dysfunction may > affect men and women > sleepiness > tiredness > withdrawal symptoms can occur when this medicine > is stopped. These include feeling dizzy, > paraesthesiae, difficulty sleeping, strange > dreams, feeling agitated or anxious, nausea, > vomiting, tremors or headaches Hmm, not sure I understand you? I got sertraline for free on the NHS. I requested it after doing research for myself, no pushy drugs reps. As for side effects, well my PND was so bad that I would happily have swapped it for all those effects. Drugs are not the answer for everyone, but many people do benefit from them. It's unfortunate when people feel manipulated. Ultimately it should always be down to the individual to decide what treatment will be best. And it helps to keep an open mind. xx

Good luck with your fundraising. You have a beautiful little girl. xx

alice Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > ???? Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > No Ethnicity dimension > > No sexuality dumension > > No regional dimension > > because none of them have anything to do with > class maybe. Or maybe because these things are as irrelevant as the rest of of the dimensions on the test.

Chillaxed Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Hmmm, used that phrase without thinking about it. > > > It's a general instruction issued by football > managers to focus on the long ball. ...and there was I thinking it meant 'up to your bollocks in'. Tee Hee.

???? Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > No Ethnicity dimension > No sexuality dumension > No regional dimension > Some groups look like what marketers call > 'Lifestage' not class > And no Education dimension? (I only took the short test... was the long one different on this?) Also, it doesn't attempt to assess you in relation to your family's background, ie how you were raised. So, I can easily see how there are plenty of newly in debt, non-property-owning, postgraduate and postdoctoral workers who will probably fall into the Emergent Service Workers Class. In reality, these people probably come mainly from middle class backgrounds, and could by the level of their education be expected eventually to attain a middle class standard by this test. Agree, some of these 'classes' are life stages with no clear sociological value. They don't set the individual in context. However, this would give the perception that people can move fluently up the class scale (something the government often seems keen to emphasize), when in fact if examined in context they're not really moving at all.

Breastfeeding does tend to be protective for PND, and suddenly stopping b/fing in the early days postpartum is certainly linked to PND. However, I successfully b/f my daughter, and still had PND. :( So I suspect that there are plenty of exceptions. I agree with Midivydale. It can be helpful to try different things. Sometimes a combined approach is useful, and if one thing doesn't work, you can always try something else. Personally I didn't find that sertraline made me feel happier, it just stopped me from unravelling and really improved my sleep. Then I was stable enough to start some new coping strategies. If your GP hasn't done it already, it's probably worth having a blood test to rule out thyroid problems or anaemia. Although these don't directly cause PND, they can make depression worse. Hope it all gets better soon. xx

Yes, I've had PND. Generally I think it's listed that PND starts from 4-6 wks postpartum, but this a just a rough guideline. Personally, I knew by week 2 that I was not well in myself. Also, I've heard of women not developing PND until several months postpartum. Although we generally think of depression as affecting mood, sometimes PND can manifest as mainly physical symptoms, eg insomnia, weight loss/gain, etc. I had a short course of sertraline (which is ok for b/fing mothers) and some acupuncture, which made a huge difference. The EPDS or similar is often used to help in the diagnosis of PND: http://psychology-tools.com/epds/ xx

I always thought the 'daddy bashing' was supposed to be ironic? Tbh, Mr Saff takes a pretty good ribbing here most days from Little Miss Saff and me. ;-) More distrubing for me is Peppa's poor diction and appalling grammar!!

DJKillaQueen Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > lol...you too have visited the Flat Earth Society > Saffron? I had great fun on there for a month or > so...... :)

Another interesting one here... http://focus.psychiatryonline.org/article.aspx?articleID=53036

drusky Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I'd love to hear more > about 'sexuality...' as an outcome of '...foetal > hormone exposure.' Are you sure you're not > confusing sexuality with gender identity? > No, I'm not confusing them. Foetal hormone exposure is resposible for many developmental aspects which will affect individuals' later behaviours. However, to indicate that these are "outcomes" of hormone exposure does not necessarily preclude there being environmental factors associated with them, such as personal life experiences. In fact, I never stated that these were deterministic theories at all. (That is something you have incorrectly inferred.) Acutally I can't think of any credible current theories on sex/sexuality/gender/etc that are entirely deterministic (ie all nature, no nurture). I don't find Frued cringe-worthy at all. It's odd to me that you infer this incorrectly as well. I find Freud quite interesting from a historical point of view in the same way I find the Flat Earth Society, Homeopaths, and Creationists interesting. It seems you could do with a dose of your own advice: go away and learn more about the current state of affairs.

drusky Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > To get back on track; the OP doesn't strike me as > particularly well-informed about why adults are > sexually, or indeed, otherwise, attracted to > children. They come across as reactionary ... So far, you've not put across any comments to suggest that you are any better informed or less reactionary.

The article lists poor insulation as a major issue. Purely out of personal experience here and abroad, I have to agree. When I lived in Switzerland, I noticed that even the dumpiest of buildings was highly insulated. Conversely the opposite often seems to be true here. Only the best properties seem to be properly insulated.