Mark Dodds

Sue, as for 'It just needs somebody there who knows what they are doing' It'e certain that the people who set up the Patch thought they knew what they were doing however irrespective of that the point, seriously, is that the Magdala site is TIED and the pubs you mention above are now all free of tie. That makes a massive difference. Plus when it comes to 'they all seem to be doing fine' - they only 'seem' so after hundreds of thousands of quids' worth of investment and 'seem' is the operative word. Three years from now the 'fine' situation may be very different.

The law doesn't come into effect until after going through third reading in the Lords, next February and it will apply only to tied leases that are running - new leases are not affected. Enterprise are disposing assets to pay interest on debts so they may sell the head lease on for a premium.

John Kennedy What a pleasure to meet you today and thanks for the recommendation to go to WK Smith in Forest Hill - mission accomplished without stress or ado. And thanks again for handling a delicate matter so gracefully. A privilege to shake hands! Best wishes for Christmas if you do that kind of thing and for 2015. Cheers!

I just noticed - Enterprise are NOT the freeholder they are the head leaseholder. They were subletting to the Patch people... This is not uncommon. Don't know who the freehold is owned by. Does anyone in this forum know? The pub has a massive amount of potential freehold or even possibly free of tie if the rent isn't insane.

Sue Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Mark Dodds posted this on the Cherry Tree thread > (29 October): > > "Someone above recommended to Chris and Antonia > that the Magdala/Magnolia is for sale and they > ought to take that on. That is an action NoT To BE > Recommended: It's an Enterprise Inns tied lease. > Any more info wanted about this toxic kind of > leasehold - message me or ask Jamie at the > Palmerston. They bought their freehold from > Enterprise and have a lot of experience of that > company's behaviour." > > ETA: I don't know how to link to a single post, or > even if it's possible to do that, but it's on this > page: > > http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?3 > 0,987030 This thread is from some time ago. The lease of the Magdala / Patch whatever will no doubt be on the market again soon, unless Enterprise Inns sell the freehold for alternative use or maybe decide to try to lease it direct to Tesco or some other gigaco nobody would want in the area. The pub would be completely viable if it were not in the clutches of a vampire blood sucking corporate criminal scam lease company but otherwise anyone taking it on again will be knackered some years down the line, now that a serious amount of investment has been put into the building there's a chance that someone will take it on and last a bit longer than the most recent sorry incumbents who've lost more than their shirt on it... I did warn them, I offered support, they didn't take it up... Enterprise Inns did their stuff. I warned people off this toxic lease and doing business with this vile company, I predicted it. I don't get any pleasure from being a clairvoyant. It's not difficult to predict this stuff really - I've done it on every pub in the area for the last twenty years and no one has taken a blind bit of notice. Anyway. Here is the sign of 'Peaceable Reentry'.

Hello fine people. Urgent pressing appeal! I?m looking for someone who might like to take minutes tomorrow afternoon at the inaugural meeting of the People?s Pub Partnership?s board of trustees ? PLEASE! The meeting starts 3pm in the back room at Ivy House on Stuart Road in Nunhead http://www.ivyhousenunhead.com/ I will record the meeting if no one's able to come along in person ? There will be up to ten people at the meeting and there will be an agenda. It?ll last about an hour and a half I think ? two hours at absolutely most ? and there will be some social after. The pub people are going to do some nibbles and refreshments. Most of the trustees have never met each other and it should be fascinating, for them at least, ? they?re all very good at what they do in their own areas of expertise, one, Dale Ingram, who?s a woman by the way, is CAMRA?s Pub Campaigner of the Year 2013, and they?re all very different and all very passionate about pubs. Should be some fun especially if you?ve got a personal interest in pubs and people and beer. If everything goes according to plan, the meeting should be a little bit of history, the beginning of a revolution in pubs! http://www.peoplespubpartnership.org If you?re interested and want to know more or just want to do it anyway ? please call me 07768 096 761 I?m posting this at 20.14 on Wednesday 09 October? thanks Mark

If you're following events at Ivy House Nunhead TAKE NOTICE! http://ivyhousenunhead.com/ Community meeting ? Sunday April 14th We?re holding a public meeting on 14 April 2013 from 10.30am ? 12.30pm. Location: in the Ivy House, 40 Stuart Road SE15 3BE. There will be a brief talk starting at 10.45am, outlining the story of the project so far and what the current position is. Please come and meet us! We?re very happy to answer questions and chat about the project, the community share issue and your ideas for the building. There will be teas, coffees and some snacks. Everyone is welcome, whether you?re a resident, local business or are coming from further afield to hear about the latest developments. at 12:15 pm: Share Issue - see the link for more...

Great NEWS!. Salient part is: Now YOU can buy a bit of The Ivy House Nunhead and make London pub history. Go to 'BUY SHARES' here: http://www.ivyhousenunhead.com/

What A Shame.

That rather brilliantly lucid and insightful assessment of the Enterprise situation and the likely position of the incumbent lessor wouldn't be from the Daft House side of things by any chance Charlie?

Briefly - if it's the lease, rather than the freehold which is being taken on at Magnoliadala then it's extremely unlikely to be Young's or any other 'brewer' or pubco - they will not sign up to being fleeced by the terms of the beer tie and a fully repairing and insuring lease with Enterprise Inns. i.e. they are not stupid, gullible, inexperienced or naive enough to buy a dead cert loser. There are some circumstances when taking on a tied lease will not lead to financial ruin but ONLY if it is sold on before the lease terms, the poor condition of the building and and the onerous beer prices catch up with you and squeeze you dry. I advise anyone interested in any tied lease, anywhere, to STOP, do some serious research, be alarmed at what you find, then walk away.

The Sun and Dove is shut now forever as the pub I operated for sixteen years. I was served eviction papers by Scottish & Newcastle Pub Company for 23 September 2 days short of 16 years since the day I signed the lease in 1995. The rent and beer prices were so high the business barely made any money. Which is a contributing factor to all problems the business experienced - right down to shaky service at times. If you can't invest in a premises it makes it harder to keep customers, harder to keep staff interested and tends to lead to a cruel downward spiral of disrepair and neglect. If you're interested in why so many pubs are closing all over the UK it's because of the beer tie. I've got a blog here [anotherdayanotherdollar.blogspot.com] which has a lot of stories and thoughts about it all but is not a timeline that's easy to read through. The Morning Advertiser, the publicans' publican's newspaper has an article about it: [bit.ly] The years of being in a pressure cooker made me have a nervous breakdown in 2007 - which you may understand to some extent affected normal service at the Sun and Doves for a whole couple of years - I was suicidal for a while. It was a grim period. But during my recovery and since I vowed to do something about this inequity and gathered together a bunch of other tied lessees and set up The Fair Pint Campaign www.fairpint.org.uk which has lobbied government for the end of the beer tie and has presented evidence about the pubcos to three Business, Innovation and Skills Select Committees who subsequently have recommended that pubcos be legislated against. IN the last two years I've been working on the foundations for The People's Pub Partnership: [bit.ly] It's going to take a couple of months for me to gather my things but PPP WILL happen. If you're interested to know more please do send a note to [email protected] with KEEP ME UP TO DATE in the subject - THANKS

I'd like that Mockney Piers, thanks, when the dust's settled eh?

I didn't come back to this because I've been busy... The Sun and Dove is shut now forever as the pub I operated for sixteen years. I was served eviction papers by Scottish & Newcastle Pub Company for 23 September 2 days short of 16 years since the day I signed the lease in 1995. The rent and beer prices were so high the business barely made any money. Which is a contributing factor to all problems the business experienced - right down to shaky service at times. If you can't invest in a premises it makes it harder to keep customers, harder to keep staff interested and tends to lead to a cruel downward spiral of disrepair and neglect. If you're interested in why so many pubs are closing all over the UK it's because of the beer tie. I've got a blog here http://anotherdayanotherdollar.blogspot.com/?zx=12aa159d191fe7f9 which has a lot of stories and thoughts about it all but is not a timeline that's easy to read through. The Morning Advertiser, the publicans' publican's newspaper has an article about it: http://bit.ly/nNANtb The years of being in a pressure cooker made me have a nervous breakdown in 2007 - which you may understand to some extent affected normal service at the Sun and Doves for a whole couple of years - I was suicidal for a while. It was a grim period. But during my recovery and since I vowed to do something about this inequity and gathered together a bunch of other tied lessees and set up The Fair Pint Campaign www.fairpint.org.uk which has lobbied government for the end of the beer tie and has presented evidence about the pubcos to three Business, Innovation and Skills Select Committees who subsequently have recommended that pubcos be legislated against. IN the last two years I've been working on the foundations for The People's Pub Partnership: http://bit.ly/qpe85z It's going to take a couple of months for me to gather my things (I have nowhere to live at the moment) but PPP WILL happen. If you're interested to know more please do send a note to [email protected] with KEEP ME UP TO DATE in the subject - THANKS

There's no need to spoof new mother. They do it authentically all on their ownsome.

What Becomes Of The Broken Hearted? Jimmy Ruffin

What Becomes Of The Broken Hearted? Jimmy Ruffin

Here's a piece that got onto BBC London: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-13392612

-- moved topic --

What with me being the publican as above I want to add comment on this BUT I can't gather my thoughts succinctly enough because I have to design a poster proposing setting up 'Friends of Camberwell Green' to display at the Farmer's Market tomorrow - on Camberwell Green - at the Farmer's Market. I'll be back. The meeting was marvellous though and I'm really proud to have been part of it. It's worth saying that the people objecting outside were plain wrong and I'll explain that when I have more time... Hope to see you at Camberwell Green tomorrow! http://www.urbanfarmersmarket.co.uk/ Meantime here's a pic of some of the steering group: http://bit.ly/ixzbUs

@prickle. Budgets for Free Schools are miniscule by comparison with Building Schools for the Future programme and are encouraged to be refurbishment rather than new build. Turning a school around is impossible without there being a willingness within the existing set up to remove the rot and impose a new regime. There is no mechanism for such change to take place within an existing failing school and the route this steering group is taking makes sense at the moment...

Thanks for coming back on this Fuschia. The politics of the situation are wrong, they always have been, that is not directly what concerns me. What does concern me that there should be more, better accessible education available. I cannot change the system but can work within it and I AM listening. It's unfortunate that the limitations of a forum like this can cut sympathy, empathy, emotion out of the tone of posts and if I come across as belligerent rather than determined to help effect some positive change in education then I'm sorry for that. In my life I'm a parent first and a publican second. My work is all about people and, because of this I have become very active in community matters in Camberwell and SE5. I set up SE5 Forum for Camberwell in 2003 with a grant I raised from UnLtd specifically to begin to address the patent inequities there are in this part of London when it comes to regeneration. In a separate place because of the tenure of the lease I own on a pub I have become a vociferous political campaigner standing up for the rights of publicans against the country's bullying pub companies who have destroyed Britain's heritage of pubs as centres of community. In that position I am one of the founder members of the Fair Pint Campaign www.fairpint.org.uk. In that arena I have been, along with many publican colleagues, accused of being a radical extremist, a commie, a lefty and a lot more nonsense when, in fact, what we are demanding is a fair opportunity to compete and to trade on a level playing field against big companies in a highly competitive marketplace. Far from having contempt for teachers, I have enormous respect for them. Many of my close friends are in state school secondary education, even more are in primary. My partner of sixteen years is a teacher, I am a governor at my children's school, a local, successful state primary. My parents were both teachers, my father a head teacher and county education advisor, my mother worked at national level on educational policy for further education and my own political leanings have been well left of centre all of my life, which remains the case. Without exception, ALL these people I know in teaching severely criticise the education system in Britain not for its aspirations but for its actuality. I'm in my early fifties, when I was at school in Newcastle in the 60's the background discussion about the failings and unfairness of secondary education was much as it is now. I have seen wave after wave of parents through the last thirty years go through the stress, angst, hand wringing and basic fears about the future for their children as their eleventh birthday approached. I have seen parents and their kids, working class to wealthy middle class go through the mill in exactly the same way as have this year's wave of unfortunates. The difference for me this year is that it's MY kid who's getting a totally crap deal, and the children of a LOT of other people I know too whose class backgrounds span the gamut, and my personal circumstances mean I have some time to apply to trying to change something that's patently badly wrong. Getting 'behind' an existing failing school is not my cup of tea - it simply would not come to anything. Getting behind a new proposition that starts from scratch with the ambition to provide a really high quality educational experience for children of all backgrounds CAN work. Anyone who had been a fly on the wall of one of the steering group's meetings would be amazed at the commitment and determination to get this done, and the discussions, please believe me, are ALL about doing this working class children. That's good enough for me and it would be good enough for my eldest child, who's likely to miss out on such an opportunity of a high quality education that the Michaela Community School can provide to local kids. It won't change the whole world but it will increase the chances of the lottery for people who otherwise have little chance of winning the opportunities they deserve... Got to go prepare for this evening's meeting...

It's a bit disappointing there are no responses - people are busy I guess. @sillywoman particularly; I'm interested to know more about the situation you mention.

@reggie: please explain more about money being stolen by a nursery - and how that is relevant here? @Fuschia: thank you but I don't agree. Seems to me the problem in England is that education has been driven by political dogma for at least the last seventy years and policy has see sawed wildly from parliament to parliament and from Left to Right for ever. Education should be about providing children with the best possible chance to learn to become rounded, competent adults who can fit into society comfortably. Children need stability, teachers need stability, people need stability in order to be effective and education quite clearly is not that way nor has it been in my lifetime. The perennial point locally that reflects this is that there is not enough decent schools let alone enough places for children from Camberwell or East Dulwich to go to. This is ridiculous and must change. As for the political dogma about Free Schools, I'd appreciate it if you could specify just how a Free School will take resources away from others. What exactly is the mechanism, and where is this process described, that will make it so? OH yes. The bit about defending our community schools instead of my putting myself forward as 'the darling of this ideological campaign'. Rubbish. There does not seem to be much to defend except that, evidently. 'our community schools' aren't good enough; besides, that's what you read into it and you are way off the mark, I'm just a parent who's really pissed off. I'm just prepared to stand up and do something about an inequitous situation and I cannot do that by keeping schtum... it needs to be broadcast or it will not happen. And no one else is going to broadcast it for me. Will they? I'm particularly driven by two things: 1) The realisation this year (because the train wreck of secondary education happened to my family and my friends' families together for the first time this year) that very little changes perennially because communities of parents are divided and counquered by a rubbish system that, in the end, lets everyone down and leaves everyone scrabbling around trying to find scraps of solace in a bad system that is letting us all down. 2) Knowing a boy in my son's class who was not offered a place at all. Nothing. The letter said 'Dear blah blah blah... your son has been offered a place at ___________________ school. No explanation nor apology, nothing. It might have been a typo for all his mother could work out. Nothing, just a blank space? What's that all about? That happened to 43 other children as well. In my view the people in charge of such incompetence should be sacked for stuff like that. Their complacent view is: 'unfortunately this is the way it is but they will all get a place in the end' so it doesn't matter. It's NOT GOOD ENOUGH. By the way; IF my son had got into his first, second, or even sixth choice school and IF his friend had been offered a place at one of his choices, I would not be here - I would not have spent time trying to work it out because I would have had the (wrong) impression that everything was working out hunky dory with the system. @sillywoman: who are you referring to and where exactly in the south of the Borough do you mean?

Thank you for finding this elsewhere and posting it citizenED