malumbu

Interesting the comments on football, I helped manage a youth team for years and no matter how often you reminded people we'd still have to go round after the match picking up litter chucked by players and their parents. And following my comments on demographics this was an educated/professional lot. I expect the excitement of the matches people forgot.

Richmond and Wimbledon are massive parks and more of an effort to get to, so most I would expect value a litter free park more than others. Or perhaps there are more litter bins there or more of an effort to publicise how litter spoils an area. Anyway some casual views, not defending anyone, my main concern is that it is a sizeable minority who don't care. It doesn't take much effort not to do it.

Unfair comparison with Richmond and Wimbledon as very different demographics - sadly that is a material issue.

Shows how well informed we are - the don't be a tosser message has been used in the UK - shame that you only noticed it in NZ - although I am unaware who has the IPR. Here's the UK campaign. General note for all people on this site, much better for positive threads rather than ones that complain and suggest locking all perpetrators up. https://www.keepbritaintidy.org/sites/default/files/resource/Don%27t%20be%20a%20tosser%20-%20order%20form_0.pdf There has been lots done on nudges to change behaviour - the classics are the spot blokes wee at in urinals to reduced splash back and weeing on the floor (blokes seem to like target practice), texts reminding you to pay bills, fines etc which quote the high numbers that do pay (be cool and join the majority), and texts to parents encouraging them to help kids doing assignments etc rather than letters telling them off. There are signs in national parks along the lines please don't spoil this lovely landscape, text your rubbish home. There is a fine line between humour, encouraging good citizenship, sarcasm and downright passive aggressive messages.

Thanks heavens, I thought I was the only one being groomed by the Nazis in the LCC. Us cyclists are totally brainwashed, we are generally poorly educated and of low intelligence, the ideal targets for shady groups like the LCC. Having walked, cycled, motorcycled and driven through many of the various LTNs I have no idea about them so therefore can't give informed views and am easy prey to the LCC. I feel a documentary exposure coming along exposing these extremists. That was the facetious answer. The considered answer is that I make my own choices. Templates are useful, particularly for very simple issues. But I will make my own mind up.

That is probably the most absurd thing that I have heard on LTNs. Utter nonsense that Lewisham's LTNs are a knee jerk response to the inquest. Drivers need to think a bit more about air quality in their choice of car, when, where and how to drive. Rather than seek to blame poor air quality on everyone else but them. The most simple example is driving along traffic calmed roads - accelerate to the speed bump, brake, accelerate to the speed bump, break. = Far more emissions. At no benefit to the driver as you get there no quicker and worse, costs you more in fuel and wear and tear. A no brainer that 95+ % don't seem to understand. Of course we wouldn't need traffic calmed roads if drivers were more responsible and aware of speed and road safety. My one significant criticism of local authorities is not enforcing speed limits in particular the 20mph zones - please bring on average speed cameras. In no time at all you would get massive behaviour change and the world would be a better place for it.

Apols better version

There are many worse things than littering, like mass slaughter and human activities causing a climate emergency. I expect that most of us don't litter and are equally appalled. But a sizeable minority wont really care. This will not be high on the political agenda, the police will not feel that it is their job to enforce so not sure what the answer is (beyond education, good citizenship and nudge). You can always challenge someone along the lines "do you mind putting your rubbish in the bin/in your car ashtray/take home" in a polite Sergeant Wilson way. I've used more direct language in the past, and occasionally thrown a lit cigarette through the window of the car that dropped it, but wouldn't recommend it. Otherwise not sure you will get a critical mass of protest by posting here.

An interesting choice in music from 6 Music for HRH Prince Phillip

I understand that the BBC had pre-recorded programmes of sympathetic music to play in these circumstances. Briefly listening in today some was OK for background - hadn't realised that HRH PP was a fan of Nick Cave though (see song for the weekend thread). Not sure if the delivery driver playing Land of Hope and Glory was listening to the BBC or whether the Daily Express has it's own music channel.

Thank you for a very thorough post. I hope that those more troubled by LTNs take time to read and appreciate your level of detail. My only thoughts are on the political comments. When I worked more in this area I had he 'pleasure' of seeing the then Tory Mayor a few times. I've posted elsewhere that he was very un-Tory like in his interventions on clean air, and has continued in respect to active travel in his current post as PM. Interesting dichotomy in a Tory government introducing and supporting the concept of LTNs yet Tory boroughs are resisting. I occasionally get accused of Spamming, as I support efforts to reduce the number of cars on the road and also have a wealth of knowledge on vehicle emissions. But if I was to be a bit of a tease, picking up on the political comments, perhaps those most adverse may wish to consider moving out of Southwark into a Tory borough, no 20mph zone in Bromley I expect.

Encouraging schools to increase active travel goes back decades and there will be targets to reverse kids being driven to school. I expect that this doesn't apply to private schools. I've seen and witnessed many great projects but for some reason this doesn't get to critical mass. One barrier is parents driving their kids to school because they fear it is too dangerous to walk due to the traffic, that they are adding too. Not sure how you break that cycle. Was going to post last night as on the way cycling to Belair to pick up home tests, foolishly in rush hour, a driver switched from stationary traffic queuing to turn right into the free moving traffic to the left, ie me, and I was so nearly knocked off. Nothing to do with the LTN, simply not checking first. Well I am alive and they are not in the cells following a charge of causing death by reckless driving so that is good news. But I was thinking just before this what a reasonable route it is as cyclists going on the South Circ to Dulwich College can cycle on the shared pavement. (not had a near miss like that for years, and was surprised how quickly I stopped without loosing control with a minor swerve)

DF this is prepared months or even years in advance - as with any major news event - for example when the truth came out about the Hillsborough disaster, that evening a documentary was ready and waiting. I think I and others are surprised about the amount of coverage, and wonder how much the national broadcaster has to do this, under 'Forth Bridge' or felt it had to do under the current government. And as said earlier we didn't have this level of media response when other eminent royals left us including a former Queen, and the Queen's sister (sorry I forgot Margaret in an earlier post) BB - we may live in a monarchy but many of us consider this is outdated and that there should be an elected head of state. No issues about keeping a royal family. And my personal views/memories go back to the wonderful Spitting Image, where I thought their treatment of the royals was playful rather than cruel. Phil the Greek sneaking off to get a sneaky kebab. Don't misrepresent this, it was fond memories that I expect the royals would have enjoyed too.

Is it right that the coverage is blanket though? We've lost Mountbatten and the Queen Mum in my lifetime without the same level of response from our national broadcaster; in a democracy a fair question to ask. Princess Di as well of course, but not sure she was still a royal.

Earlier thread, Admin may wish to combine /forum/read.php?5,2155967,2197611#msg-2197611

Open question - is wall to wall coverage on every BBC channel over the top? What is disrespectful about keeping some schedules unchanged? Serious views only, I'll not be going to the tower on this one.

Nice leaflets. Putting up alternative points of view is not trolling, it is debating. Dismissing alternative points of view is more akin to trolling.

Not sure why the survey was described as incendiary, a bit of overstatement. Here's a nice survey that shows that most people are in favour of LTNs. I posted before with some objective views but didn't get any response. Here's another opportunity to rip it to shreds. I've also got loads of stuff from Sustrans, Living Streets and the like, but if I posted that this forum would go up in flames. https://redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/steady-support-for-for-low-traffic-neighbourhoods-in-london/

Thanks for the link Scrawford. Pleased to see that the Tory councillor recognises: "The keenness of Labour councillors to close roads is in line with a left-wing belief, shared with the Liberal Democrats and Greens, that if you create enough disincentives to drive, children can play on empty streets where cars once drove". A good reason to vote Labour, Lib Dems or Greens. Perhaps if he had posted that the Tories would achieve reduced traffic through other means I may have taken this more seriously. The kowtowing towards the PM was even more telling - this was a Mayor and now PM who at times has been very interventionist, something you would not expect from traditional conservatives.

Extreme - as in this chap has become rather obsessed. We can all go around with head cams looking to record anti social and illegal activity. There is a limit on how much information from the general public can be handled by the authorities I expect - although others may argue that in this 'surveillance society' there is the capability. We are not yet the former East Germany. He also reckons that the police had made is so easy for road users to share video footage the system had been changed to make this a little more difficult. Gas guzzlers are hammered in the first year excise duty, but the fixed rate (?155) for following years is not based on carbon emissions, which is a bit rubbish. Those over ?40k pay an extra ?335 for the next five years. The fixed rate of ?155 is the same as it was in 2000, so essentially has not kept pace with inflation, fuel duty hasn't either. In real terms excise duty is much lower that when I learned to drive. The general view of government's not wishing to 'alienate' car owners seems to stem from the 2000 fuel protests, and I consider has not helped the environment. For a three litre Range Rover excise duty can exceed ?2k for the first year, but his is for a vehicle costing upwards of ?80k, and I expect most are on lease deals, so doubt whether this puts people off.

No no no Sparticus. We all know that tea bags contain the sweepings off the floor. Which my current Sainsbury's loose tea seems to be made from. I'll be over to yours DF for a tasting. Price ain't too bad, others are around ?6 for 50g

Cyclists worried about drivers on mobile phones can take pictures, upload these, and send to the Met. Rather an extreme measure, but one of my colleagues was really into it, and even went to court as a witness once (successful prosecution). Upstairs on a double decker affords you a better view! The colleague said that many are actually looking at the internet, rather than a voice call or texting, and that included Tinder. But that made it difficult to get a picture, as they didn't have the phone to their ear, ie doing it on their lap (even more worrying if on Tinder), to make it less obvious, and due to glare and poorer contrast/definition images may not be clear. Shopping drivers to the police was so successful that the Met changed the system making it more difficult to download the pictures. Perhaps. That said I don't see that many on their phones - maybe the message has got across. Usually you can tell, road positioning is not good, often not signalling, so you are already prepared to take evasive action. And then when you overtake, eg at a junction, guess what, they are on their phone. Some silly ones are even in business vehicles with branding, including once the Royal Mail (I did get a picture of that). If I was on one of the other threads I'd talk about entitled motorists that think they can drive how, when, why, what and where. Nephew got away without a ban hitting 12 points, 6 for driving hands on mobile. My sister said, well of course everyone does it now an then. My view was that the van should have gone into a crusher and cubed. OK maybe an extreme measure but then some need that level of deterrent. Oh dear, sadly this has gone off thread, as most do when we try to have a chat about a cycling issue, as clearly we are all lycra warriors happy to break the law and harass pedestrians. I'm being facetious.

I've not tried any of the main brands - Yorkshire, PG Tips, Clipper and the like. The BBC programme taking a family through running a corner shop over the last 100 years or so was quite illuminating. In the 50s grocers would still stock many different types of tea and blend them for customers. We've long lost that appreciation (I think it is more trendy for coffee). Perhaps there is a tea tasting course I can do post lockdown. Of course the water, freshly boiled, vessel and brew time are important too.

I switched from bags to loose tea a couple of years ago - that has helped improve my taste buds but also gone off high tannin varieties The decent stuff is ??? so have compromised by going own brand - mainly Sainsbury's Darjeeling. I got a vat of Turkish tea from Forest Hill Road Supermarket but this didn't make nice white tea, and should be brewed black using two pots as in Turkey. Just tried another home brand (Gold Label) which I found the leaves were too fine, and it was the nearest to instant tea I've made. Reviews on line are polarised - ie 'leaves too fine' to 'lovely and strong'. What do my good friends in SE22 and beyond recommend?

black and white? Lots of opportunities for optical illusions https://www.moillusions.com/simple-black-and-white-pyramid-optical-illusion/