malumbu

Whilst totally off topic, the maintenance of driving standards is an important issue. Few drivers go for advanced driver training. Young/inexperienced drivers often have to behave themselves as they need a black box as part of the insurance policy but at the first opportunity get rid of this. The police have long since routinely stopped drivers for poor driving - back in the day I was stopped and also with other young drivers, by the police, for relatively minor things and then given a lecture following a quick kick of the tyres etc. Not seen to be a good use of police time now, plus much lower numbers, but you can get away with being a poor driver and of course nobody admits to it. More draconian punishment may work for example for hands held mobiles, but you are not going to give points/fine for those that can't be arsed to indicate, braking hard/late etc etc. I'm still thinking about putting a video up on YouTube on how to drive in traffic calmed areas (hint, minimum use of the brake)

Special t-shirt - there are some nice ones at the Horniman Farmers market or you can get one on line eg People's Republic of South London. Through advice on this forum I bought a mate who'd hit 50 one with a Ford Capri.

Duncan - nope, many people moved out in the last century to the outer boroughs due to the influx (or at least as they saw it) of immigrants. These people will now be getting on/dying out. Nowadays I expect it is more likely that many move out due to 'better schools' although from the other part of this site I expect some will move out as the outer boroughs are more pro-car.

Yes a party with environmental credentials - greens or Libdems. Tories speak about the environment, yet lead it to Labour councils to enact. The alternative is to move to an outer London Tory Borough, none of this nonsense of LTNs and 20mph zones, plenty of space in your front drive for several vehicles.

Because as a country we are very pro car. It's gone from a great levelling out in the 50s and 60s when the working classes could first afford a car and hence a revolution in personal mobility to the entitlement of many/most that this is now a right. Successive governments have made the right noises of challenging this, but it's all gone in the wrong direction since the fuel protests of 2000 ("give Blair a bloody nose") with the unholy alliance of hauliers and farmers. That is why duty on motorists and hence general taxation from this source has fallen continually in real terms in the last 20 years. Can you imagine most motorists agreeing to pay more fuel and excise duty to help reduce the environmental impact of their vehicles??

Too soon to judge. Our economy will adapt. And eventually even I will tire of saying was a stupid thing to do. It will continue to divide our nation for years to come. It certainly has contributed to a move towards nationalism/national interest, populism and xenophobia. And on the divided nation in my darkest moments I see both Scotland and Northern Ireland going, the power base remaining in the SE (are we really going to become a major manufacturing nation once more?) and the North being a continued drain on resources. So 'remainer' London, with a Labour majority (whatever Labour stand for nowadays), will continue to be key to the economy.

A fairly sensible question posed in the thread, but this has gone into wider discussion which is the Lounge's territory. It saddens me that every time cycling is discussed then some feel it is right to trot out the same old anti-cycling diatribe, no doubt exacerbated by the toxic issue of LTNs. Quoting large sections of the Highway Code really takes the biscuit. As someone with advanced driving and cycling skills I'm in a better position than most to judge. I could add sections on the Highway Code about safe driving, obeying the speed limit and the basics of observation and communication with other road users. The basics of look/mirror, signal, manoeuvre, drummed into me as a 18 year old learner, and really brought home in motor cycle training (before the current regime), are not followed by many on the roads. You can pass your driving test at 17 and then never have another day's training for the rest of your life. As well as speed awareness courses for those caught speeding, I'd love it if there was compulsory retraining for those of you who no longer meet the minimum standards of the driving test.

Not a man I can warm too. Screwed the country up and then left it to others to sort. Very much of what I think of as representing the 'nasty party' - the term that May coined. That said they seem even nastier with Johnson at the helm.

No need to patronise me, as I've said that is what e bikes are for ie when my body starts to give up. I just posted that his was a much nicer thread than many others, why ruin it?

Fully with you on this - just looking at the possible third wave. Interesting article in Grauniad about B 1.1.7 last Saturday and rightly praising our expertise in genomic sequencing - sorry I can't find the link. There is science and there is politics......

All my experiences with combis were bad, they don't seem to last that long. That said I switched to a condensing boiler in a traditional system. Lifetime even shorter by most accounts. Sorry not very helpful.

Deptford has a long way to go to be the next Peckham - I expect when the country opens up there will be a return to bar culture on Rye Lane. Catford? Now that is an interesting one....

Otto - there is some helpful debate on this thread which is not toxic/polarised like others on this site. Please continue! Hills don't bother me and shouldn't for the masses, anyway that is why we have e bikes! Barriers are the weather, which you generally get used to, changing facilities, what to wear, obviously road safety - where I still believe that irresponsible motoring is the major factor, and for me cycle security. I've posted lots in pre-LTN days on cycling including my own stats on safety where many accidents were no other vehicles involved ie dangerous road surfaces, mechanical failure or worse still me dicking around. Most road users get on fine. On using the whole width for shared space it has been tried in the UK but can't find the main articles, from memory disappointingly it was not the panacea, but others may have better knowledge. Here is one relevant article: https://www.smartcitiesdive.com/ex/sustainablecitiescollective/mixing-cars-cyclists-pedestrians-exhibition-road-london-s-take-shared-space/33809/ I'm sure I've seen stuff from LCC or Sustrans.

Modelling of potential third wave when we move out of lockdown: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/975909/S1182_SPI-M-O_Summary_of_modelling_of_easing_roadmap_step_2_restrictions.pdf Hospitalisations well below the peaks, but demonstrates that not out of the woods yet. Interesting comparing with last summer and the start of the second wave. On captain hindsight, the arrival of B.1.1.7 forced us into more draconian measures (aka lockdown 2) and with the high uptake of the vaccine hopefully things will continue to go in the right direction.

More reading on the subject Special advisors: (Secret story: inside the delivery suite with the reluctant midwives of Brexit) https://www.globalgovernmentforum.com/secret-story-inside-delivery-suite-reluctant-midwives-brexit/ And personalities/behaviours including boxing yourself in Mrs May https://www.globalgovernmentforum.com/politics-personalities-how-three-bad-behaviours-shaped-brexit/

It's sad that we need to segregate cyclists for their safety. Denmark is not the best comparator as cycling is now integrated into their national psyche and I expect that space allows for easier segregation. Copenhagen is so impressive and trumps it's nearest rivals in the Netherlands. France and I expect Italy have respect for cyclists, maybe because this was so important for getting around after the war, but also due to the sporting tradition (although you could say the same about the UK up till the 60s). Since affordable motoring from that date cyclists are seen as second class citizens by the majority of people in this country. You have to break that barrier. I expect there are good examples of a change in direction elsewhere - Spain?? Many Spanish cities seem to have integrated bikes into their road network much better. Here's a nice blog: (I was looking for a newsreel from the 50s of workers arriving in the shipyards etc - mainly by bike and on foot) http://davesbikeblog.squarespace.com/blog/2010/7/29/once-upon-a-time-britain-had-a-bike-culture.html

There is something to say about countries that make the retailer or manufacturer responsible for the product through it's lifetime (the fag companies and McD's would have a major job on related to litter associated with them) but at the same time (a libertarian right view) abdicates personal responsibility. Not sure what the answer is. I suspect that most using Gails wouldn't throw their crisp packets on the pavement or out of the window of their car after visiting the corner shop. But behave differently in other circumstances. But I've only been there once and still scarred by the prices.

Wasn't sure where best to post these articles and this was the first Brexit thread that I found looking back on the forum. Very much closing the stable door after the horse has bolted, remainers saying "told you so", and Brexiteers will respond along the lines of 'remoaners' but some interesting articles in any case. They tell you what we all know, that we went down a hard Brexit that we hadn't voted for by mistake (May) and later move to the right (Johnson). The articles are interviews with senior civil servants, ministers and the ex-speaker all of who didn't support a hard Brexit. And of course we are where we are so need to get on with it. But some comfort in that the views on most of this forum are supported, although plenty of ammunition for those that don't share the same views. How the Tories? new direction left government directionless, and other Brexit stories: https://www.globalgovernmentforum.com/how-tories-new-direction-left-government-directionless-brexit-stories/ Black comedy of errors: how the UK accidentally left the Single Market, and other Brexit stories (the gospel according to Hammond. https://www.globalgovernmentforum.com/how-the-uk-accidentally-left-the-single-market-and-other-brexit-stories/ Future generations will leave it to history to judge, but I still find it very sad how we got to where we are. The EU despite the farce over vaccinations wants to return to free movement, including Norway and Switzerland. I expect that post Covid we will be out of that for some time.

This some sort of mutual appreciation society? Obviously me excluded. Well there is one worse thing than being talked about - not being talked about. Have a nice day.

Nigeria (where the ancient kingdom of Benin was situated) where they were looted following the destruction of the royal palace in 1897 by vastly superior (in terms of weaponry) British forces.

Just a sign that conservative middle England couldn't give a toss about the above, and save their rage for those daring to question the appropriateness of statues to slave traders, or returning stolen treasures. Send them all back - Benin bronzes, Parthenon Marbles etc etc.

Question is will your children thank you? Ours went state (there was never any likelihood of private) and then decent universities where they were very aware that there was a private vs state snobbishness. They held their own so no issues but demonstrated that choices on secondary education can be divisive and may not always encourage one nation Britain. The middle classes are those most anxious about their children's education with the least to worry about - supportive families and if push comes to shove will do something about it. Not my words but from a Radio 4 documentary, sadly don't have the link.

Thought that this was a facetious thread. As for Rye Lane, I'm most likely to walk or cycle there nowadays, and last time I got the 363 it came a strange way due to waterworks and missed Rye Lane all together. It would be great if the road surface could be properly pedestrianised, with better demarcation between pedestrians and cyclists. As a cyclist it is perhaps worse in some respects as there are less things to constrain your speed - although those parking on the double yellow lines aren't missed. I like what they did to the Northern bit ten or so years ago, but sadly the road was a little too narrow, meaning that buses often mounted the cycle lane destroying the curb. I tried taking this up with TfL but got no where. There is a general point about mixing pedestrians and cyclist, as a nation when walking we are not that good at looking out for bikes. And of course bikes must look out for pedestrians. I could bore for England on this subject.

Rocks, you never say I am spot on. Perhaps others think I am.

Interesting the comments on football, I helped manage a youth team for years and no matter how often you reminded people we'd still have to go round after the match picking up litter chucked by players and their parents. And following my comments on demographics this was an educated/professional lot. I expect the excitement of the matches people forgot.