WorkingMummy

Yes, brilliant!

Ps. The plan with your partner and his mum sounds perfect. I did something like that with an overnight stay away from my daughter but I think a weekend would have been even better. Put your feet up!

I definitely don't think cold turkey is cruel. It sounds good sense in the situation you describe. I did it with my first and it was hard on her but not for long. Decongestants (at the dose found in normal lemsip, for eg) radically reduces milk production. In the States, midwives recommend it to help reduce engorgement when going cold turkey (or when going on a long flight without baby and no means to express). Would echo what others say about having a pump to hand just in case. Good luck! May your first unbroken night's sleep for 18 months swiftly be upon you!

I agree with Huguenot that opt-in sounds a bit People's Republic of China, as well as impractical. But, another forumite sent me this link today: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/allison-pearson/9821275/Our-daughters-are-abused-by-a-culture-of-porn.html I don't like what it reports. If it's representative, I'm well behind the times. The pressures girls are under aged 14 are way higher than when I was at a Croydon comp, for sure. Mind you, the mother of the girl spoken of in the article can at least take comfort in the fact her daughter told her what was going on. I don't think Mary Whitehouse is the answer. I think the article's suggestion of more wholistic sex education (covering topics of self respect and pleasure as well as abuse) is nearer the mark. Huguenot, interesting what you say about societies where the kids share a room with the parents and grow up watching real sex between adults. I think that might well have the exact opposite effect to that caused by exposure to extreme/hard porn (within the context of a relatively conservative/repressed adult culture). Maybe chiming with my Dutch liberalism point. You grow up with an open, non-taboo attitude to sex all around you, everyone becomes less vulnerable.

Young Hearts Run Free - Candi Staton

I often wish Christopher Hitchens were still alive, to hear him wave his verbal cleaver about a bit. Woodrot captures the general drift nicely on this occasion, though.

Take me to the Water - Nina Simone

Redjam, I found your observation, about a page back, about the powerless position of children, and that being the source of the strength of their connection with Cinderella type figures, very interesting. That had not occurred to me at all. But I am still troubled because Cinderella is but one of many equally powerful stories which come back from Minute Library with my kids each week, in which the heroine (always female) embodies the virtues which I have described and wish to reject as paradigms for my own children (girls and boy). There are of course different female characters, in more modern children's stories. Chez nous, this week, we have as a new entrant Charlene from "Charlene Loves to Make Noise". But those stories seem very different, to me at least. Charlene is not legendary. I?m pretty sure that my kids sense that Cinderella is being held out them as something other just another ordinary little girl from another ordinary street. I have not heard a good counter-argument to this: Cinderella self-presents as a morality tale. And I have to say, I think that presentation works. I FULLY understand the chorus of "Naaahhhhhh! Give over!" I have in fact grown slightly embarrassed of my own position in the face of it. But I think (hope at least) that I am not bunkering down reactively when I say: I think that chorus is a tad naive. We humans are creatures of language. Story telling is important to us. And myths play a role in our culture and in our minds which makes them more influential than other stories. This is not academic nor far-fetched to me. Many have said, "I was raised like this, and I am alright." Good for you. Ultimately, I?m very alright too. But as I think I have said already, my own experience as a young woman was that it was far from easy - even in my adult relationships - to get away from the principles of female virtue which were planted in my head (including via mythology) when I was a child. Sometimes I struggle with that stuff a little even now. SOOOOO, I shall be reading ?Die Schonsten Marchen der Gebruder Grimm? to my children on demand, same as I always have. When it comes to a myth like Cinderella, which I see my little girls swallow right down, all I?ll be saying is, "You know what, I don't buy this, kids." Can't believe that this is - in truth - a controversial idea! I've found the range of views in this thread very helpful in forming my own. WM PS: John K, if you really want to know we currently have no fewer than six versions of the Cinderella story in our house. (This is perhaps further evidence of the story's power.) We have the Disney DVD, two texts in German and written versions in English by: Amanda Askew; Gaby Goldsack; and a particularly revolting pink version contained in "Princess Stories", printed by priddypress. In all, the central elements are the same. They are pretty simple. I?m not sure they bear bespectacled textural analysis...

I'm not peering over my spectacles at a text, John K. I think the principal elements of the plot are well known. Good that people are laughing. Get your laughs in where you can. Life's short. I'm utterly sincere. Nor is what I am suggesting (or at the outset of this thread, searching for) as a possible approach to reading this story with children, extreme. WM

I agree. But for me (and maybe this is partly because I am a lawyer) if a story depicts a crime (as many fairy tales do, and not always just by the baddy) and then prescribes a "virtuous" response, which is b/s (turn the other cheek or whatever), what is wrong in saying so? That's all.

Gotcha. Sorry. Slow.

Ok, LondonMix. But then, I don't dig what you are saying about love, I think. But I've already decided not to send the children to church/Sunday School and have no appetite to debate the R word tonight.

Sorry, lost me there....

Christian or not, not for me to say. It's not the definition of goodness I would choose to pass on to my children, girls or boy. If you are bring mistreated, work out your options, be smart, get help, find allies. Resist! To me, it's basic.

In reply to Pickle. 100% agree, it can't be stopped. But neither can I. I've never read Snow White or Sleeping Beauty to my kids. (I'm sure it's only a matter of time.) But if/when I do, I know I won't be able to stop myself saying, "She's asleep! He's never met her! How does he know she wants to be kissed, by him? What a nerve." As a young lawyer, yonks ago, I was involved in a criminal case a LOT like that. These stories, they are not quaint and old fashioned. And this is bigger than pink. This is about right and wrong. IMO

In reply to Monkey: Yes, but a lot of those anti-princess books clearly say, "This girl, she's s bit bad." Which I've no beef with. But by definition, it can't counteract the problem with Cinderella, which is clearly a morality tale, which says Cinderella is GOOD, to the point of virtue, because she is kind to people who abuse her. That morality is b/s. I'm not into leaving my kids with b/s morals. With 98% of books that come through this house (chosen by the girls at the library, while I'm at work) I like them, I don't like them, doesn't matter. I read them. The girls go for it, or not, end of. But this Cinderella baaaallocks just leapt off the page at me last night. It's just too much shite for me to let go without comment. (They picked it out again tonight! I read it. I told them - again - very briefly, it's hogwash. Never let yourself be treated like that girls. Took literally three seconds. Then onto "Charlene loves to make noise" also at their instigation.) As it happens, I'm less fussed about pink clothes than I am about this.

I think it's a bit of a long shot, as it sounds au pairy, and people wanting to fill that kind of position normally want/need to live in full time. As long as you are happy to do your own due diligence on candidates (which is mostly about telephoning their references and asking sensible questions) it would be worth posting a highly specific advert on findababysitter.com and seeing what you get. I have had a lot of luck with this. (The site is not simply for babysitters, but nannies, au pairs...) You do tend to get a lot of answers from people who want you to change the job to suit them. And as your requirements are likely to be hard to fill, I think you'll get more of that than most. But as long as you ruthlessly screen out those that don't fit (don't even reply) and as long as you have a bit of time (say, 2-4 weeks) to wait for the right reply to come in, I have found this only a little more hassle, a lot cheaper and a lot more flexible (in terms of what you get) than the average agency. If you do go ahead with this kind of advert, use a secondary email address: you might be inundated! With the job market how it is, you never know, you may get lucky. Good luck!

I'm waiting for a jury. Which means I have to be at court, but have no work to do. So no sucker client. Sorry to disappoint.

Midivydale, Sorry, only just noticed that your recommendation of Pippi Longstocking IS a Lindgren book. Never heard of it before today but will definitely buy it now.

I like Astrid Lindgren's books. See: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Children-Noisy-Village-Astrid-Lindgren/dp/014032609X#_ I love these books because, as well as being very charming, they have a good mix of male and female characters. Lindgren reflects, realistically, the slightly different emphasis of girl-only versus boys-only play. But the children mix a lot, and overall each child has such a wonderful, rounded character. (A favourite scene of mine is Britta climbing to the very top of the roof of the barn and walking right along it, like an elevated gymnastics beam. Her terrified mother sees and shouts at her to come down.) Each of my girls particularly identified with the lovable trouble making toddler, Kerstin, at aged 2-3.

Inspired by Midivydale's mention of Swedish authors, I like Astrid Lindgren's books. See: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Children-Noisy-Village-Astrid-Lindgren/dp/014032609X#_ In fact, I know her work in the German translation, as published 40 odd years ago ("Lustiges Bullerbu", "Die Kinder von Bullerbu"). But I'm glad to see they made it into English too. I love these books because, as well as being very charming, they have a good mix of male and female characters. Lindgren reflects, realistically, the slightly different emphasis of girl only versus boys only play. But the children mix a lot, and overall each child has such a wonderful, rounded character. (A favourite scene of mine is Britta climbing to the very top of the roof of the barn and walking right along it, like an elevated gymnastics beam. Her terrified mother sees and shouts at her to come down.) Each of my girls particularly identified with the lovable trouble making toddler, Kerstin, at aged 2-3.

Canela - that is the best argument against a ban. Slam dunk winner.

Hmmm, yes, Pickle. Like I say, no signs of my girls actually being submissive. Although oldest does get wracked by guilt over "not being kind" (she is kind!!) I don't mind play violence. Violence has a place. My own 2yo girl likes to point pens at people and say "kill, kill". I respond by keeling over. I guess one thing is, I love lit-crit. Not of the, "what is alliteration" kind. More of the, "what the f is this character on? what would you do?" type. Cannot ever imagine putting my kids off books. The surest way to trigger a meltdown is to decline to read to them (for eg when in the shower, and they are at the bathroom door...)

Mivydale, as a Swede, do you know the Bullerbu books. (Sorry, spelling?) These are big in Switzerland, translated into German. Very old fashioned, but lovely female characters!! Edited: by lovely I of course mean rounded, adventurous and interesting. Not pretty and obedient!

Pickle Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > ... and please do realise I'm a little tongue in > cheek with my heels and makeup comment. I'm a > stay at home Mum who wears heels (well, wedges) > and makeup to do the school run. I have standards > ;-) :-)