LadyDeliah

I think if you accidently commit any driving (or cycling) faux pas, then it would be normal to apologise and that should dissipate any anger. Similarly, when a motorist is nice to my when I'm cycling (or walking), I always acknowledge it. I wish it was like that all the time, but unfortunately a large proportion of people, once they get behind a wheel, seem to turn into ill-tempered, selfish arseholes who are a danger to everyone else.

Bob, I may have appeared to start this thread with a generalisation about all drivers and I apologise for that. The reason I was so pissed off was because to and from work yesterday I had five incidents of motorists endangering my life and then I read that appalling report of the stupid cow bragging about hitting a cyclist. I was pissed off and I admit it was wrong of me to tar all motorists with the same brush, I am sorry. Otta, at no point have I said all cyclists are angels. I have accepted that cyclists can be arseholes and prejudiced towards other road users. That is not the issue. My points of contention are as follows: 1. Arsehole drivers are far more dangerous than arsehole cyclists so both should be cracked down on commensurate with the damage per year caused by each of them to people and property. The hatred of cyclists by some drivers is dangerous, but appears to be condoned by the wider community. I think this needs to be challenged and I hope it will become just as unacceptable to joke about killing cyclists as it is about killing any other minority. 2. Many motorists feel that they are entitled to dominate the roads and other road users are just in their way, including slower driving cars. I accept that some cyclists also feel like this, but again, the danger to others posed by motorists with road rage is far greater than the danger posed by cyclists. 3. The amount of public space taken up to accommodate motorists by way of widened roads, motorways, car parks etc is too much in my opinion and should be reduced for use by other members of the community to share. 4. Planning has prioritised the needs of motorists over everyone else for the past 50-60 years. This has reduced the quality of life of other members of the community and has even destroyed some communities because they have become so pedestrian unfriendly. 5. The issue of vehicle excise duty and fuel tax always seems to be reeled out as a reason that cars should have priority on the roads. Roads are paid for out of general taxation so we all pay for them, including cyclists, but motor vehicles cause far more damage to roads than bicycles ever could. Also there are many miles of roads that cyclists are not allowed to cycle on, there are vast car parks paid for by local taxes and widening of roads to accommodate increasing numbers of cars; so in effect cyclists are subsidising motorists, not the other way around. 6. Motorised vehicles produce CO2 and other harmful pollutants. The pollution from these vehicles causes many health problems that cost all of us money to treat in the NHS. Global warming from the CO2 is another good reason to try to reduce the priority given to motorists and plan other ways to do things. 7. The oil needed to drive the vehicles is finite and by all accounts peaked in the 1970s so there is a need to look at how we use this finite resource in addition to the other compelling reasons to re-assess our attitude to cars. 8. My life should not be in danger everytime I cycle to work. I should not have to feel like I am travelling through a war zone when I am cycling in London. I want to live a long and healthy life, to watch my granddaughter grow up. I don?t want some impatient psycho in charge of a tonne of metal to mow me down on my way to or from work. There are more things I could say, but I think I've pretty much covered all I can think of right now.

Do you have any reports on the number of motorists who jump red lights or use their mobile phone whilst driving? At junctions where there is no space to wait in front of the traffic, or where vehicles are blocking the advanced stop box I will go past the stop line of the junction and start cycling just before the lights change to green, because it is unsafe to cross the junction any other way. Vehicles turning left in situations like that regularly hit cyclists who don't go right up front. I think the law should be looked at to make this aspect of cycling safer and prevent unnecessary deaths. I don't have the answer, but I know what I have to do to keep myself safe in that situation.

DJKillaQueen Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > You are right LD regarding anti-cycling > rhetoric....but I've never seen the forum as being > a benchmark in balanced debate anyway, I think few > people do :) (except that is, within the confines > of the drawing Room). > > Raising awareness is a good thing when done > effectively. This is a twitter account which retweets some pretty serious and offensive tweets against cyclists @CycleHatred. In my experience, this is a widely held viewpoint and one which I have encountered many times whilst commuting on my bike. I commute all year round, every day. I rarely use public transport or drive, so maybe that is why my experience of these kinds of incidents is as frequent as it is. I wear hi-viz, cycle defensively and always indicate my intention to change lane or turn into a road by putting my arm way out into the road to make sure drivers can see it. I make sure I am well in front at traffic lights so they can see me and I can keep up with the traffic in most London roads but still i get vehicles squeezing past me with inches to spare only to have to stop a couple of meters in front. Their behaviour is dangerous, but they see it as justified because I am a cyclist. I've had enough and hope that the links I've put up will change a few people's perceptions in the cyclist v motorist debate.

Sheldor: Some motorists have a sense of entitlement and prejudice towards cyclists. Most don?t. Some cyclists have a sense of entitlement and prejudice towards motorists. Most don?t. This is true, but a cyclist having a sense of entitlement, prejudice or hatred towards a motorist does not put the motorist in mortal danger.

No DJKQ, I'm trying to raise awareness after having had to read so much anti-cycling rhetoric on this forum. The Highway Code specifically states that they should leave enough room to overtake and must consider vulnerable road users, therefore, motorists passing extremely close to cyclists or cutting them up really close are failing to observe the Highway Code and committing the offence of driving dangerously.

Otta, these are all examples of dangerous driving, some causing injury or death. I face this every day because I choose to cycle to work for health and other reasons. I want the perpetrators to be arrested and when convicted, given sentences that reflect the seriousness of the damage they have caused. There needs to be a change in people?s acceptance of hate speech and hate crimes towards cyclists and an acceptance by motorists of their duty to consider all vulnerable road users. Any of the people clamouring for a crackdown on cyclists, should be making even more noise about cracking down on this kind of behaviour from motorists given their recklessness and seriousness of the damage caused. I would not be able to accept a driver being given a ?35 fine for killing my 20 year old son. I would want to have him hurt, but we are supposed to be civilised about these things. We are supposed to hand the power to obtain justice for wrongs done to the authorities, but in my opinion, the authorities are woefully failing in regards cyclists.

This guy got 14 months for killing a cyclist who was wearing hi viz and had lights on a straight road. Cars behind the killer saw the cyclist, but for some reason this guy didn't and ploughed straight into him: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-north-east-wales-21034918

Driver gets ?35 fine after cyclist dies in collision THE DEVASTATED family of a 20-year-old cyclist, killed in a horrific crash, have called for tougher punishments after the driver was handed just a ?35 fine. http://www.solihullnews.net/news/solihull-news/2013/01/17/driver-gets-35-fine-after-cyclist-dies-in-collision-105074-32622442/

Yes, it's happened to me more than once. I always cycle about two foot out from any parked cars for that reason, but you always get some ignorant motorist beeping his horn or shouting for you to get out of their way for them to squeeze past. This one is pretty bad. A big truck nearly hits a cyclist in his head by cutting accross him: I've ordered my helmet cam and it should be here in about 2 days. I'm seriously going to start reporting all these dangerous drivers. They need to be told they can't behave like this on the road.

Not a fan of the Daily Wail, but thought this was interesting: Almost 600 cyclists a year injured after being knocked off by open car doors In 2011, 594 cyclists were injured after hitting or trying to swerve a car door, up from 468 in 2009 Transport minister Stephen Hammond says drivers must take more care before getting out into the road Number of people cycling to work is up 17% in a decade http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2291625/600-cyclists-year-injured-knocked-open-car-doors.html

Otta Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > "Out of all road users, the cars, buses, vans > and lorries cause the most problems to > other road users" > > That could be written "Every road user except > cyclists cause problems for cyclists". No, it doesn't include motorcyclists or horses.

That is the appalling incident that prompted me to start this thread (not that I'd been thinking about doing it anyway of course, lol). After all the circular debates on here between motorists and others, I thought the only way to get motorists to begin to understand the impact of their behaviour was to post examples of the everyday problems they cause and the outright hatred exhibited towards cyclists on a daily basis. I think most motorists have no idea how dangerous these kinds of idiots are so I thought if they actually watch some of the clips, I?m sure they would join us in condemning their behaviour and calling for tougher penalties for dangerous driving, especially where it results in death or injury. Cyclists seem to have become ?legitimate? targets of hate crimes and in my opinion, this needs to be addressed urgently.

Some of them are inconsiderate, but I find on the whole they take more care than motorists, probably because they understand what it's like to be vulnerable on the road. Can't remember any near misses with motorbikes actually, but have had hundreds from badly driven cars, vans, buses and lorries and have been hit about a dozen times. Pedestrians walking out into the road are pretty scary if there is a lot of traffic, because I could get knocked under a vehicle. If there are no cars then we are both likely to get hurt. My reactions are pretty good though and I cycle ultra defensively, so I can usually judge when someone is about to wander into the road without looking. Out of all road users, the cars, buses, vans and lorries cause the most problems to other road users.

Even more dangerous drivers: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBLPb0LzQnA Some of these guys should be arrested, but this is what we have to put up with when we commute by bike.

binary_star Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > 17 months for this bus driver: > > OMG, that's appalling. 17 months is a joke. That is at least a s.18 intention to cause GBH, if not attempted murder.

If anyone else wants to get a good helmet cam, this was recommended to me: http://www.cyclestore.co.uk/productDetails.asp?productID=57752&categoryID=1115 I have checked to see if there is a way of reporting dangerous driving to the police online, but it seems you would need to attend your local police station to do this. There are name and shame sites online, but I would rather report them to the police so the incidents are recorded in the crime stats :-)

Lol, maybe, maybe not. Anyway, here is an example of a community being destroyed by traffic engineering and the dominance of motorists, who fought back with safer options for other users of the public space: Enjoy :-)

More help for all you caring motorists, listed under the section Vulnerable Road Users along with horse riders: 211 It is often difficult to see motorcyclists and cyclists, especially when they are coming up from behind, coming out of junctions, at roundabouts, overtaking you or filtering through traffic. Always look out for them before you emerge from a junction; they could be approaching faster than you think. When turning right across a line of slow-moving or stationary traffic, look out for cyclists or motorcyclists on the inside of the traffic you are crossing. Be especially careful when turning, and when changing direction or lane. Be sure to check mirrors and blind spots carefully. 212 When passing motorcyclists and cyclists, give them plenty of room (see Rules 162 to 167). If they look over their shoulder it could mean that they intend to pull out, turn right or change direction. Give them time and space to do so. 213 Motorcyclists and cyclists may suddenly need to avoid uneven road surfaces and obstacles such as drain covers or oily, wet or icy patches on the road. Give them plenty of room and pay particular attention to any sudden change of direction they may have to make.

And because I know none of the law abiding EDF motorists want to breach the Highway Code, I thought I'd post this so you know what you are expected to do when overtaking a cyclist: The Highway Code Rule 163 states that you should Overtake only when it is safe and legal to do so not get too close to the vehicle you intend to overtake use your mirrors, signal when it is safe to do so, take a quick sideways glance if necessary into the blind spot area and then start to move out not assume that you can simply follow a vehicle ahead which is overtaking; there may only be enough room for one vehicle move quickly past the vehicle you are overtaking, once you have started to overtake. Allow plenty of room. Move back to the left as soon as you can but do not cut in take extra care at night and in poor visibility when it is harder to judge speed and distance give way to oncoming vehicles before passing parked vehicles or other obstructions on your side of the road only overtake on the left if the vehicle in front is signalling to turn right, and there is room to do so stay in your lane if traffic is moving slowly in queues. If the queue on your right is moving more slowly than you are, you may pass on the left give motorcyclists, cyclists and horse riders at least as much room as you would when overtaking a car (see Rules 211-215)

DJKillaQueen Wrote: > > You are not the police. If you choose to challenge > every driver you feel isn't driving to a standard > you set, then you are putting yourself at risk of > being abused and will find little sympathy from > the Police, unless the driver has caused an actual > accident (and failed to stop) of course. As a > lawyer you should know this. Actually that is not correct. If you see someone commit an offence you have the right to make a citizen's arrest. This is what security guards' and other non-police arrests are based on. If someone is committing the offence of dangerous driving, putting my life in danger, I have the right to challenge them.

It's the hatred of cyclists by motorists that is what worries me. The incident in the first article is a hate crime by a stupid woman using her car as a weapon against a cyclist in my opinion and it is this kind of dangerous attitude to cyclists that I want people to question. I am going to invest in a helmet cam to report the dangerous drivers I encounter everyday and the abuse I receive when I try to pull them up for endangering my life. Why should motorists be allowed to get away with this kind of behaviour on a daily basis without it being challenged?

No comments on the articles I posted then? Just rehashing the old some cyclists injure or kill people argument despite the ratio being massively skewed towards motorists being the primary harbingers of death and destruction?

Dick cyclists are annoying, dick motorists are dangerous.

Lol