LadyDeliah

Parents with disabled kids get blue badges so that's not really a good excuse TED.

Sorry dude, I was taking the piss.

And Willard here's another view on population v consumption: http://m.guardian.co.uk/environment/georgemonbiot/2011/oct/27/population-consumption-threat-to-planet

Well done on your efficient use of spare time and your talent for multi-tasking. There was me thinking you just did bugger all, all day. How silly must I look?

Willard, that would depend on whether I'm into buying my kids all kinds of shiny crap they don't need, or if I live a green lifestyle with them or not. A large family in a poor country living a basic life have a far lower carbon footprint than a typical small western family. It's not about family size, it's about how much of the planet you consume (did you even read the article you posted?). By the way Willard, calling my views borderline fascist and telling me to keep them to myself because they differ from yours makes you a bit of an intolerant wanker in my humble opinion.

Should I start the cut and paste or will you?

DJKQ, you must be superwoman if you manage to get any work done in you Big Meeja job and simultaneously keep the EDF so fully informed.

Thank you henryb.

In my opinion, we as a society and globaly have to rethink our addiction to the car and find other ways to do what we currently do by car. We invade countries for the fuel that drives them, we have an ever fatter, sedentry population and increased pollution due to congestion, both of which negatively impact our health and NHS. The car is a dangerous machine which, with even the best intentions of the driver, kills thousands of people every year, injures and disables many thousands more and puts millions of others in fear. The car dominates public space and amenity. New and existing projects should have alternative methods of transport integrated at the planning stage, instead of always planning for cars. We need a complete change in thinking about car use moving into the future because the current thinking is unsustainable.

So on your evidence, not all your colleagues use their cars then DJKQ. (Motorbikes and cabs too).

Willard, you've got me crying into my Horlix now. Any way back to our convo. If public transport is crap, you guys work in media, make some noise and get it on the political agenda. Everyone owning a car is totally unsustainable, so someone needs to come up with a plan B soon. Oh, and just out of interest, are you two saying that no-one who works with you guys is a non-car owner then?

Willard, welcome. You'll find I'm a bundle of lighthearted joy, my tweets and retweets are full of sunshine and fluff.

Ok, think about it for a minute. How many people that you know actually need to own a car? Getting shopping and commuting don't count. I know someone who cycles to Dagenham from here and he's in his early 50's. I also know a 48 year old, self-employed painter & decorator who cycles all over London on jobs. plus paying ?6 to a mini-cab driver to bring your shopping home, if it's too heavy to carry negates the perceived need for a car for shopping. Most people want a car because it makes their lives easier, not because they need one. Believing your convenience is more important than the health & safety of others means you are selfish.

Care to elaborate e-dealer?

Tradesmen and people who carry equipment usually have vans. There is nowhere in the UK that is not accessible by train and bike. The majority of people who own cars do so because they find it convenient, not because they need to.

DJKQ, I drive, cycle, walk, take mini-cabs (rarely) and use public transport. I sold my car about 6 years ago and use a Zipcar/van when I really need something more than my bike, which is not often. There is no need for individual car ownership in London unless you are disabled. Ambulances and other priority vehicles take longer to get to where they are needed because of individual car ownership and the congestion they cause. I see no good reason to continue to support the right to individual car ownership over everyone elses' rights, health and safety.

So we all agree then do we, that anyone who does not subscribe to your point of view ED - NAGAIUTB is thick and low on the evolutionary scale? You are obviously a wise and intelligent super-being and I apologise profusely for being so stupid that I failed to recognise the brilliance of your argument.

DJKQ who are you to decide what adds to the debate? My opinion differs to yours so it is somehow not helpful? And saying the main issue (to you clearly) is congestion, when it is caused by too many people driving cars is beyond ironic! Current views on people's right to drive a car anywhere and everywhere they please despite the subsequent loss of amenity, death & injury, pollution and health issues is unsustainable, undesirable and outdated. When plans are drawn up for any major project, cars should not automatically be catered for by way of car parks, widened roads etc. there should be more emphasis on facilitating walking, cycling and public transport if you want to do anything to improve congestion. By the way, I see DJKQ that since your bike is no longer your main mode of transport, your views on car drivers have changed dramatically. What a surprise?

There is a balance to be struck between taking care of your own safety and taking care of others' safety. My comments were not being made in relation to the driver in this particular incident as I have no knowledge of the facts. My comments and opinions are based on the posts of car drivers here on the EDF and during my cycle commutes over the past 20 years. Telling pedestrians that they should just add '2 minutes' to their journey rather than cars be expected to slow down at an island crossing, fuel my perception of car drivers being selfish, arrogant and lacking in an ability to see the direct and indirect harm their attitude causes to others. The many threads bemoaning speeding/parking etc tickets and congestion chaos caused by them, adds to my negative perception of car drivers. It is my opinion that their hitherto privillaged position in relation to use of our public spaces should be challenged and reversed somewhat. That's my opinion, based on my observations and experience. If you don't agree, fair do's, but don't act like a twat and say my arguments are inane, unreasonable or illogical.

DJKQ, just tired of car drivers' expectation that their right to have absolute convenience and dominance of everyone else's right to peaceful and healthy enjoyment of public spaces should not be questioned. After the tirades against cyclists, I've decided to 'Get on one' as often as opportunity allows in an attempt to challenge drivers' views on individual (selfish) car ownership and it's primary consideration in too many aspects of our lives.

Loz Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > LadyDeliah Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > Thank you Loz, I'll take that as a compliment. > > It was. We may disagree a bit (especially on this > subject), but at least you can usually frame a > coherent argument. I'd say we disagree a lot, but vex sex was always my favourite type, so it's all good :-)

Like I said you have your point of view and I have an opposing one. Is that allowed in DJKQland?

No DJKQ, I didn't miss the point. I just don't agree with it.

Thank you Loz, I'll take that as a compliment.

More evidence of car drivers' sense of entitlement. Why should they have to care about buggies and wheelchairs being able to get through on the pavement? Their need to block up the pavement is clearly more important.