Carbonara

I know 2 families who have had children in Steiner schools, one in the N of England, one in Scandinavia. Both experienced horrible problems with bullying undealt with by staff. I have no idea whether all schools or indeed individual teachers subscribe to all the original elements of the 'system', but one of those is that children sort out problems between themselves and learn to do so and that adults must not intervene for fear of damaging the child's own self (I forget the Steiner-jargon word for it - roughly 'karma'). I also have no idea whether individual schools or teachers subscribe to the rules of no black paint to be used in art class, no figurative drawing, just layers of watercolours, no faces on dolls, every day starting with 'eurythmic' dancing, etc. I guess all of those things have their own benefits, and are at least harmless, but if that system of categorisation is in use in any way at all I would have strong objections to public money being used to support it. I do not happen to support state funded faith schools, either, but sadly Blunkett and now the Free School movement makes it a free for all for a variety of beliefs. As for letting it 'play out' before we can make a decision, once all the money available for state funded education has been poured into Steiner schools and Birbalsingh's vanity project, Creationist schools and Latin-speaking Academies, there will be no more money left for a decent local co-ed which caters for parents of mainstream belief who want a broad and balanced secular curriculum available to all. Either support it or object - letting it 'play out' is fence sitting.

In the end, if your children are happy and doing well, then the ins and outs of Ofsted, the marketing led, target chasing hype of the place doesn't matter, maybe, as long as good teachers are allowed to do a good job.

I can conceive of more-as-good-as-the-best-of-what-we-have, and indeed better alternatives, yes. But my research into Steiner schooling leads me to believe that it is based on The Right Sort of Families buying into what is at best woo and at worst a very dubious set of values and practices rooted in some horrific beliefs of the founder. I have separate objections ot Free Schools, but agree that they divert resources.

There is so little capacity, financially and site availability, for new secondary schools that I would actively campaign against a Steiner School in the area. Anthroposophy would be one of my reasons for objecting.

Reading that piece in the Guardian tempted you to read several hundred pages by her? Good luck!

JimmyYay - is that was is actually allowed? There are far more than that most days!

I must try that pea scam. Is it not better to use something that comes in a brown cardboard box, though, so that the stuck-on bit is better camoflaged against the TV box? No wonder you ended up in Wormwood scrubs. And Tesco is the place you really have to check your receipt. Multibuy offers show up at the till about 50% of the time, they do really dodgy things like not having the item on the shelf match the price tag underneath and you think you are grabbing a bargain, but you have bought something impreceptibly different to but twice the price of what you wanted.

In my experience there is a busy stream of planes that start arriving at about 4 or 4.30 am. I didn't realise it wasn't supposed to happen!

If the bill goes ahead, when will it take effect? From April 2012, or 2013? I think the cut is fair enough in principle, but the way it is being done, with some families earning almost twice as much and keeping the child benefit, is outrageous. Very discriminatory against single parent families, too, who have no choice but to pay high childcare fees in order to earn.

There are loads of really fantastic schools in the general area. Forget the ofsted rating but read the reports, but most importantly visit the schools themselves. Heber, Roseosendale, Goodrich, for example. If you like Rosendale you could make sure you buy in the catchment for both Rosendale and Charter, sorted for secondary.

The wine list is ridiculous! Ridiculously long, and starting way too high in price.

I'm glad you all had a lovely day. Ignore my mis-information about Canada Water being on the DLR - sorry! But the DLR is a fun experiecne for 4 year olds.

Having suffered one embarrassing admissions debacle, Southwark would do well, in my opinion, to look into this through the Admissions Forum or some other mechanism. Can the Admission Forum take comments from the public? (how do they know the public understand a school's procedure unless they communicate with the public?). I know I am not alone in not having understood the KD policy - I googled looking for information when the school could not answer my questions found and several threads on MumsNet showing that confusion and misunderstanding is common.

Does anyone know how to raise an issue with the Schools Adjudicator? If an Admissions Forum has the duty to make sure admissions information is clear for parents, why can the Admissions Forum not deal with it? I do feel that the KD Admissions procedure is very badly articulated and makes no sense if you try and piece together the information on the website and on the prospectus with regard to how they achieve a 15% intake on scholarships if they have no idea whether the scholarship awardees will even get a place in the school. Or what happens if scholarships are awarded and then more than 15% of those get places in the lottery. Applicants are told whether they have a scholarship or not very early in the admissions timetable, but not whether they have a lottery place. The explanation given to parents on the phone is nothing short of garbled. However I do not subscribe to the various conspiracy theories that this naturally provokes, I just want them to explain their procedure and the process in a way that can be understood.

Debster, I hear that Elm green is very good (but it's Co-ed, and does have some of Southwark in it's catchment) and the new Brixton school sounds promising, too. Only boys school in Lambeth is Archbishop Tennison, I think? That is very close to Southwark border, too.

Debster - that's great! People send kids all over London if they can get them into the school that suits that kid. Religious parents send kids to the Oratory or Caridnal Vaughan, lots of Southwark parents put children in for the Graveney test, or try and get into Lewisham schools. The ONLY point at which the Kingsdale lottery becomes an issue for Southwark parents is that there are so few co-ed options in the S of the borough. I don't think any of the controversy around KD undermines the fact that from the pupils point of view, it delivers what it should. Just as the Charter does, even though it has been found to have highly suspect admission practices. The scholarship offer at KD is amazing. But schools cannot and should not be let off scot free from scrutiny and criticism. If KD have been indulging in sharp practice to get results up and meet targets, it needs to be looked at, because as someone else said, it casts a shadow over the credibility of the results achieved by hard working children - and teachers!

I think I would buy him a train set of some description and spend the day playing with it, make a train birthday cake (construct with a swiss roll, mini roll, something for wheels and your imagination), and then as soon as he is next able take him to one of the steam railway days, or even on the DLR all the way down to the end of the line, sitting in the front of the front carriage 'driving' it. (It is very empty during the day. If you don't want to take him in big crowds, drive to Surrey Quays tesco or Decathlon car park and walk the short (200m) distance to Canada Water DLR station. IKEA have (or used to have) very cheap versions of the extortionate Brio train stuff, you could buy several kits and build lots of different tack versions. The ELC hve good tracks, too. Lots of company prepared to play trains all day without making excuses is a treat for 4 year olds! I hope whatever you do goes well, and all good wishes for his ongoing recovery. P.S when he can get out and about again he will love the Transport Museum in Covent Garden. PPS ASDA do a Thomas Party Cake http://groceries.asda.com/asda-estore/catalog/sectionpagecontainer.jsp?aisleid=1214921925303&departmentid=1214921923703&kw=asdajump You could call the Clapham Junction branch and ask if they have one in or can order it for you. Sorry - link doesn't go to the party cakes page, but it's in there! TESCO Thomas party gear http://www.tescoparty.com/ShowProducts.aspx?pageid=459

Thanks Intexas. I see the purpose of the forum includes "It also ensures that the admissions system is straightforward and easy for parents and carers to understand.". If they do show signs of life, perhaps they could turn their attention to the KD Lottery and Scholarship system. No one I have met understands how they can say in their prospectus that they take 15% of their intake on scholarship and yet having a full scholarship does not guarantee a place, which can only be allocated on lottery. It is not easy being a Southwark parent!

What exactly is an Admissions Forum, and who can be a member? Are the minutes of meetings available and open to all?

Are you saying that Southwark has agreed to a Steiner school?

er, Sally, every parent looking at secondary admissions knows that there is movement once all the acceptances and declined places get shuffled around, and many people will have made decisions based on whether the children in their road go to the school, knowing that they got places after March 1st. Of course the overall, ultimate catchment will have shrunk a bit - for all the children (rightfully, in my opinion) to gain a place on the correctly implemented route measurement there will be a child on the margins of the catchment who will not. Everyone knows that nothing has ever been guaranteed, but it is indisputable that this has added an adverse factor to the basis on which some people thought they had a reasonable chance. Secondary admissions is an incredibly tense time for parents, this is bound to cause upset and dissappointment (if not despair!)to some, even as it brings hope and a well earned sense of relief to others.

But the precedent has been set by appeals in the past. If Charter were to honour the applications from those furthest away in favour of those now legally within catchment, can you see the parents who mounted and sustained what must have been a long and difficult campaign conceding that parents who second guessed the distance on years gone by should take precedence over their children? Legally nothing has changed except that Charter are being told to implement their stated policy. However, I would be very stressed and upset to find that what I thought was a reasonable chance of admission had been based on previous mis-application of the policy. It is Charter's past demeanor that has brought this about. It may be that most parents now cast into the depths of despair will actually get the place they want - fingers crossed for all.

I would choose co-ed, and have done where possible, but you know siblings (especially opposite sex siblings) will walk 800m and wait in the cold for an extra 20 mins simply to avoid even being at the same bus stop as each other on the way to school, right? Fair enough, you would like your kids at the same school, but the whole relationship with the school once they are at secondary is so different. I didn't realise people felt strongly about having kids at the same school. I don't find it any practical disadvantage at all.

Why do you wnat to send both children to the same school? (unless they are twins). It makes sense at primary level, but by the time one gets to secondary they will have been at different schools anyway. Just wondering - that I might be doing it wrong and have missed some vital factor in my planning! I don't know anyone who went to the same school as opposite sex siblings. But I do agree that it would be good to have another co-ed. Mostly, I would like KD to admit on distance, ot at least within a certain distance.

Excellent news.