James

I would strongly advise against Dulwich Leisure Centre. I used to be a member and kept persevering, thinking it would improve but no - broken machines and indifferent staff (often "too busy" to swipe you in yet doing next to nothing) sums up the experience. When part of the floor caved in, was roped off and wasn't fixed for weeks it was the last straw for me.

"Looking gay in a blokey way with pints"... how does that work? Sounds entertaining.

Had great fun doing that chav test Alan. But I reckon it confuses being thrifty with being a chav in places (eg. buying supermarket brand cola). Isn't it more chav to go for brand names? Or am I taking it all far too seriously... just for a change

Would love a good music shop! How about a music store/coffee bar/hangout combined?

Anything involving ostrich feathers would be great (as long as the ostriches were not harmed)

Oh right. Yes. Okay, well that means I just referenced your race/class thing rather than qualifying it. Right you are.

If that's true about the first year going to the chuggers it's a total scandal! Have to say I have a standing order to the NSPCC but am fed up receiving junk mail from them... is this what my money is going on?

Okay. And?

Well actually it was Citizen who introduced the race angle and I qualified it by suggesting it was more a class thing. It is a bit sad that kids can't run as free as they once did but it's the inevitable greater awareness of modern media-driven society. There's probably no more risk of eg. paedophilia than there was fifty or a hundred years ago, whatever the rabid tabloids might say. Still, if you asked a parent who let their kids play unsupervised & something bad happened I'm sure he/she would tell you that it's a risk not worth taking. Sad but true.

How about a trendy tea rooms to counteract the Starbucks effect? Green & white teas are massive now so combine a good selection with some nice organic snacks and I'm sure the commuters would approve

I don't share your delight at the kids playing unsupervised, sorry! Again is this some kind of weird inverted snobbery? If some posh little dears were playing alone are you sure you wouldn't be a bit more critical? PS Have never heard of the Fireman's Alley entrance but it made me laugh. Sounds like a euphemism. Sorry :))

What is a gay piano?

Where I work there are loads so you run the gauntlet every time you nip out for lunch. I can't bear them! Once as I walked away shaking my head one said "well I hope you're never homeless" or something equally spiteful. Actually I have two standing orders to charities, not that I am obliged to advertise the fact. I would never give them the time of day.

Was hoping for an amusing & random list of distinguishing features. Dammit!

Sure it's not one of those "Iceland is gonna be an M&S" type assurances?

How will I know where/who you all are!? Does anyone have any distinguishing features?

"a tyranical culture of tolerance is preferable to allowing intolerance to spread" I sort of agree with this. But then the problem becomes how is this "tolerance" defined and by whom? The Guardian-reading elite? (I speak as a guardian-reader btw!) However I think the PC culture has made notable advances. For example the Sun now portrays black people positively (although it has switched to other targets like immigrants and travellers and "mad mullahs"). We are also getting far less of the "GAY AFFAIR! UGH! A POLITICIAN IS GAY! AAAAAAGH! DISGUSTING!" type headlines. I think they realise that public opinion has shifted so they just can't get away with this kind of bullying any more. Interesting that the rightwing press - like the major Western religions - repeatedly lag behind society in intolerance and prejudice. Every now and then they get a kick up the arse and move forward a bit. It wasn't that long ago that the Telegraph was sympathising with the Nazis (but they like to forget that now).

I think it's much more complicated than that. I hate it when people like Littlejohn and his ilk use it to rebuff any attempt to be fair and tackle discrimination. Thank God we are not still living in the racist, sexist, homophobic 70s. But I think it's also fair to say that political correctness has a lot to answer for. If you look at the ideas behind communism they were quite noble, high-minded and unlike the corrupt reality they became. In a similar way political correctness started out as a way of getting people to understand how language can entrench prejudice and social divisions. Quite true. But it has now become a dogma whereby people communicate in a kind of doublespeak reminiscent of Orwell's "newspeak". Rather than helping society to be fair to all races and minorities, it increases the gap between what people say and what they actually believe. It breeds resentment because it papers over untruths with other untruths.

Political correctness is a phenomenon, hoever anyone feels about it. You can't just consign it to Room 101 any more than you could Marxism, Thatcherism or any other movement.

I prefer to see it as people highlighting prejudice in the views expressed that the holder of the view seems oblivious to... Do you not agree that you made a large number of assumptions about the incident that were actually pure conjecture? Hmm. So if I say something you disagree with it is assumptions & conjecture. But if you agree I am helping to "highlight prejudice." Is that how it works?

In response Alan, I was questioning the logic of counter-lynching Lilly for her supposedly "lynching" the parents who abandoned the kids. It seems to be some sort of weird pantomime whereby we all show off how enlightened and PC we are. I think you are being prejudiced by assuming that working-class parents are ignorant & law-breaking by not using child seats! See, I can play your silly little game as well.

I reckon because Lilly seems middle-class and the parents were probably chavs everyone is having a pop at her for being judgmental. Would you all react like this if it were the other way round? Do we honestly think that Lily is the type to go lyncing paediatricians...? I am a parent and if I saw what she saw I'd be shocked too.

You should Matt, it's a great place. Really chilled out and the food is lovely. Gay friendly too. Maybe see you there next pink drink-up?

Isn't there some way to preserve a mix of new chains and existing businesses? I was reading about a scheme in Hatton Garden which has preserved the traditional character of the area by preventing the small businesses being priced out... could we get Southwark to do this here?

Yes please! A Monday would be good:)