bawdy-nan

My five year old, contrarian in a thoroughly atheist household, has expressed an interest in finding out about God and visiting a church. Can anyone suggest a local church service that might be suitable. (I'm thinking a little bit child friendly). Whats the normal thing - do children get taken to church services? I have absolutely no idea about any of this but am keen for my daughter to follow her curiosity... any ideas?

JB = Jeremy Bowen (see, see his mournful countenance healed by good fruit and veg)

I saw the lovely, but sad looking, JB in Pretty Traditional the other day - stocking up with UK fruit and veg. I love him and was happy he went away with a (non-plastic) bag of fruity goodies.

I've eaten there a couple of times and won't again (well, I probably will and then moan about it.) I wonder if they're being a bit over ambitious and shouldn't just stick to a big lovely home made soup, steaks, burgers and nice plates of cheese. I had a very funny discussion with the chef when my "fresh" mackerel turned out to be a vaccuum packed smoked and peppered job. I said this isn't a "fresh" mackerel, he said "yes it is, it only got delivered this morning". Its certainly an improvement on the old place and a nice place for a drink...

Hello CWALD The application for the pharmacy does include the provision of needle exchange services. The pharmacy is being applied for under regs that require them to provide needle exchange services, whether they say they want to or not. I think that DMC should just come clean and hold a public meeting where they can set out what they want to do and make the case for it. Its evident that people do have concerns and this skulking around isn't helping at all. A bit of honesty would go a long way I think. If its been properly thought through they should be able to address people's concerns. If, as you say, this is merely an extension of what they already do and the fact of opening late at night isn't going to have a significant impact then they should be able to make the case pretty powerfully. At the moment they simply aren't saying the same thing to everyone and, inevitably, this makes people suspicious and untrusting. They are a community service paid for and used by the community they should surely engage straightforwardly and honestly with that community?

Hello CWALD I've checked the facts very thoroughly indeed and would love to hear a full and detailed plan from the practice about what hey are planning and how they intend to manage any risks (perceived or otherwise. Its not a planning issue its to do with the PCT. The surgery have planning permission to build a single storey building but don't, I think, require permission from Southwark Council on what services they provide within the building. The PCT are obliged by the regulations to consult and allow 45 days from infomring "interested parties" for objections to be raised. I posted a link to the regulatory documents earlier in the thread. The only way that the surgery can open a pharmacy is under the 100 hour exemption, this is because the PCT say there is no need for an additional pharmacy. The area is already well served by other pharmacies. I've seen the petition in Macey's (I popped in there today and they are indeed campaigning against the proposals rather than simply for consultation. I can understand their position - their livlihood is under threat). Under the 100 hour exemption they will be expected to provide a needle exchange. The documentation from the PCT which has now been provided to "interested parties" (ie local community groups including Gumboots nursery) clearly states that the application includes needle exchange services. Perhaps the nurse you saw wasn't quite up to speed on this. There are certianly mixed messages coming out of the practice, I certainly wasn't aware of the addiction services they provide already but they seem to tell a different story to whoever they speak to.

Isn't this all part of the property crisis/boom. People can't afford to move so are rapidly expanding their homes. I read a piece in the 'Standard about people tunnelling downwards too - haven't seen this in ED yet but it can't be long ... if the new proposed school can't afford the price of land for a playground maybe they should consider going underground?

Dom - have you thought about approaching CH4 / 5 about your own child-rearing show. You could tour the nappy valley hotspots pointing out good and bad child management .... Have to say the scene you describe sounds lovely .. children chatting instead of smearing food in their hair,/ fighting, grandparents keen to engage in conversation, relaxed parents ready with a Julie Andrews style firm but fair discipline - do you think they're available for lessons? I'd certainly be in the market for a bit of light happy family training!

Personally I feel ambivalent about this whole thing. I don't necessarily think that opening such a facility is a bad thing. I recognise that addicts are part of the community and deserve respect, consideration and services in the same as way as do all humans. As I've said before I have a child at the nursery. I am also a trustee of the nursery but am representing only my personal views here. Personally I do not have tremendous concerns about the idea but I would feel much more comfortable about it if I could be satisfied as to the motivation for setting up such a facility. As I understand it the needle exchange and methadone business will be required as a condition for allowing a pharmacy on site, its not that having a needle exchange and methadone consumption clinic is the main motivation. In many ways I'd feel more comfortable about the whole situation if it were the primary driver. I'd feel as though the people who want to set it up have a real interest, expertise and concern in serving the needs of people affected by drug-addiction. It seems to me that this is not part of a carefully though through PCT plan rather the result of "market forces". There's an opportunity to develop income streams for the practice by opening a pharmacy on site , there's no identified need for an additional pharmacy in the area so they have to go for the exemptions (100 hours plus drugs services) to get it through. If there is a need for such drugs services in the area (in addition to the pharmacy on Forest Hill Road which does provide more similar services) then I feel that, of course, it should be provided. If I were starting from scratch and first principles I probably wouldn't place it at Dulwich Medical Centre. Yes, because its a residential area and yes because its next to a nursery and an after-school club amongst other things. I don't feel NIMBYish about it because I wouldn't mind it being nearer my own back-yard (I'm up the top end of Barry Road / LL ) This topic is provoking strong opinions, of course. Many people have had experience of drugs and drug users and this experience has made some people more sympathetic and some people less sympathetic. Heroin addiction is an emotive topic. It does ruin lives and is frequently associated with crime and pretty foul behaviour. If it were possible to sustain a heroin addiction quite comfortably and function as a member of society then there'd be less of a problem. If it were easy to control and dip in and out of then it wouldn't provoke fear. I know, of course, that some heroin addicts are able to serve an addiction and be "useful" members of society but there aren't so many instances of this. I can absolutely understand why people who live nearby and whose children attend the nursery and after-school club are concerned about this, even if, on balance, I don't feel those concerns so powerfully myself. As people have pointed out drug use is often linked with mental illness and is treated with a similar distaste. People are frightened by it and many, many people have had brushes with it - whether through direct personal experience or through friends and family. It would be great if GP's were able to provide decent mental health and addiction services as part of their everyday service but they don't. This facility isn't going to be the one to change that. It seems to me wrong to try and address all the bigger issues around drug use and addiction services in this case. Is it really what this is about or is it about a "local business" trying to make a buck?

Still don't see how it follows that farming organically leads to blue-tongue disease or its spread. The purpose of treating the animals is so that they don't get infected not to eradicate the disease. Unlike, say foot and mouth, the disease is not spread animal to animal, rather by midge. The aim of the defra proposals is not to try and get rid of the insects. Its expected that this will happen with the onset of colder weather. I can see the point that you want to make this scenario isn't a suitable vehicle for it.

then there's always cornwall

I find a diet consisting entirely of meat tends to leave me rather bunged up. Wiping said bunged up bum with a steak is interesting, but pricey. As a consequence, I tend to visit a range of shops to satisfy my non-meat needs and wants. The meat in William Rose isn't all organic. They stock free-range, wild game and, I believe, non-organic farmed meat. I think Blue-tongue disease is spread by midge. I've yet to discover anything that will keep the midge away. Does this mean that a degree of accuracy sprinkled through a flaccid pseudo provocation might improve rigidity? Just wondered...

My impression is they've almost got it right there. It is pricey, but its lovely too - a great place for a treat. I took my 5 year old there for a first day at school juice and cake treat. The staff were absolutely lovely and treated her like a princess. The baby food thing is probably down to staff over enforcing a rule. They probably don't have or have never had babies and can't for the life of them think why it might be an issue. Its pretty impossible to know "what its like" having children if you don't. I can see why being treated as you were would be very distressing. I remember wen mine were small you already feel quite vulnerable and encumbered - you take up loads of room and have loads of stuf to carry and it can feel like the world doesn't want you and your baby in it. When you're challenged for doing something as basic as feeding your child it fees horrible. I thought they had an upstairs kid-free zone - which sounds like a great idea and its rare that anywhere is big enough to accommodate kids and adults who don't want to mix comfortably.

Whatever the best way of treating addiction, its far better to be open about whats planned. Some people do have concerns about having such a clinic open up it makes sense for the surgery and PCT to address those concerns head on, show that they have considered and dealt with any risks and enable people to see the big picture. Trying to rush something through without following the regulatory procedures is likely to engender distrust and suspicion. Its good news that that the regulations are going to be followed now and it gives everyone time (45 days) to think about the issues and hear all the arguments soberly, so to speak. Personally, I don't feel too strongly about it. I have a close relative who is / has been an addict. He's not much fun and has been helped by a sympathetic doctor. I can see the need for a facility, but if I were planning one I can think of much better places to put it in the area. There is, or exampe, the seldoc facility at the East Dulwich hospital which is aready open late, has parking and isn't a solely residential street. The PCT guidelines say a new pharmacy should open where there is an assessed need. There isn't one identified in ED (hence the local pharmacists objections). The only way they can open one is under an agreement to open for at least 100 hours a week and under that exemption they must offer a needle exchange and a willingness to be a place which can administer methadone. I don't think this an example of careful planning of services, rather that DMC is looking to expand its income streams. As far as I know there isn't a late night pharmacy in ED (though I might be wrong) and its a service that surely will be welcomed by residents. I wonder why one of the "independents" who oppose new pharmacies opening hasn't thought to offer a late night service themselves.

I have just had notice from the PCT that they are extending the consultation period to November 8th in order that interested parties can consider the proposals. I think this is great news and it gives us all an opportunity to find out about the proposals, what they actually mean and what risk assessments have been made or need to be made. Much better to have time for reflection and investigation than panic campaigning and under-informed reaction.

I'm a trustee of the nursery in question (Gumboots Community Nursery). We found out about the plans last night and have not been informed by the Doctor's Surgery or the PCT. It is in fact a statutory requirement according to the NHS (Pharmaceutical Services) Regulations 2005 (regulation 23) that the PCT inform a whole range of people and interested parties about such a proposal. We come under the "any other patient, consumer or community groups in the area that the Primary Care Trust or Local Health Board considers has an interest in the provision of pharmaceutical services in the neighbourhood". The full regs can be read here http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2005/20050641.htm#23. At our management committee meeting last night strong opinions were indeed expressed about the potential impact on the nursery, whether a GP's surgery sandwiched by a nursery and an after-school club in a solidly residential area was the best pace to position such a facility if it is necessary and that the PCT and GP's had failed to consult with us. The practice has arranged a meeting with us but, curiously, for the day after objections can be submitted. It would be disingenuous indeed for the practice to have arranged the meeting so that we couldn't raise objections. Whatever the rights and wrongs of a needle exchange and methadone clinic it is inevitable that the parents of young children attending a nursery whose premises sit next to it are going to have some concerns. The people at the Centre frequently return balls, toys and dolls that are tossed over the wall by the children into their premises it is not alarmist to suggest that we're keen to avoid a reciprocal deal with the users of the proposed clinic. We'd like to see the proper procedures followed. If any parents of children currently at the nursery, or on the waiting list, would like to make comments to the Management Committee about this please email the nursery on [email protected] or put something in the yellow comments box. We're very keen to hear your views.

Interesting thing about this thread is that most parents seem extremely loyal to and pleased with the school their children attend which is fantastic. It probably means that there's not a ropey one amongst them. My daughter goes to Heber and I'm very pleased with it. There's a new reception teacher and the "manager" of the reception and year 1 is charismatic and committed. Hurrah for us. Shame about the secondary school provision really but perhaps that'll shift.

1. It hasn't got a starbucks 2. It has good schools and childcare 3. There are great independent shops (and a nearby supermarket for the massive things) 4. Lots of green spaces (including the marvellous Duwich Woods) 5. The transports a bit ropey (sounds bad but actually means you're encouraged to cycle and the residents ahve learned to make their own fun) Bad: Its bloody pricey

we too have been warned that we will need to leave once it reaches 7. This was when sitting down outside with a very young baby - at around 5pmish - it did give the impression that we weren't really welcome there at all. Having said that, it wasn't said in an unfriendly way at all - rather as a kind of passing on of the rules (and this was about a year ago).

EDT is a fine and dandy place to grab a meal with kids on a saturday lunchtime. I;ve eaten there with two smalls a few times and found it really friendly and good value, with good childrens food and nice stuff for adults too. I have to say that whenever I've been there Franklins has been a dream with kids. In fact, we celebrated our daughter's second birthday there and she tucked in heartily to the lamb's tongue.

Have fun at the plough but if you're going to eat I'd recommend crisps and olives. Last time I went there the "veg" of the day was a bowl of fried onions and carrots (mmmm yummy) and the "fresh line-caught mackerel" came out of a vacuum pack ....

When they were demolishing it, if you sat on teh top deck of a bus going past you could see inside and the keleton of the cinema - very sad ... I reckon a cinema woud do pretty well round here ... (I know there's Peckham)and I was there ony the night before last

Its where that new block of flats is on Grove Vale (before Goose Green School). I remember it being demolished.

Weren't Boots just taken over by some Private Equity firm? If so I assume they're just draining the company of assets and sacking staff to line their golden pockets, er, I mean streamlining the business to run more effectively.

Give it up ibo - you're obviously very hurt and angry but this thread strayed into defamatory territory. Saying "allegedly" has no force at all.