red devil

Like I said, obsessed...

Obsessed... http://bigfourza.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/hated-adored-never-ignored1.jpg?w=500

StraferJack Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Man Utds problems (and I accept all of the points > about their global reach, big business etc etc) > include: > > Global Reach: This brand penetration has occured > in the last 20 years when they have clearly been a > dominant force. There is no guarantee that those > far flung fans will remain loyal over several > turbulent seasons I think you're on sticky ground alluding that fans in 'far flung' places are somehow more fickle and transient in their support of a team. If you'd said this might be the case for the next, younger generation of fans deciding which club to support, then I'd be inclined to agree with you more, because wherever they live in the world some new fans will be swayed to favour the teams that are doing well at that present time. > Ownership: If a new owner to rival the megabucks > at City arrived tomorrow GUARANTEEING as much > money as any manager could need, they would still > be competing with City et al - no guarantee of > success there. But as it is they have the over > leveraged Glazers. If they do have the will, do > they have the means? Before FFP you would have a point. With FFP it's now all about revenue streams, you can only spend what you earn. A sugar daddy arriving at OT would only clear the debt, nothing more. It's no coincidence that 'old money' clubs like Utd, Arsenal and Liverpool have all been vociferous in their support of FFP and against 'financial doping'. Under FFP a club can only spend what it earns. At Utd, part of those earnings will have to go on to service the debt, but their income has ballooned in comparison. I don't support the Glazers and their business model, but credit has to be given to how much extra revenue they have brought into the club in recent years, a good proportion of which will be made available for transfers this summer. > Players: Rooney (for next year or two. Maybe). de > Gea. Mata. Rvp. These are the only players you can > start to build a team around. And I wouldn't trust > RVP as far as I could throw him. It's going to > take years to forge another squad around them Don't forget Januzaj! It took Fergie 2 to 3 seasons to build a team around Rooney and Ronaldo, so I would say the same whoever Moyes or A.N Other decides to build the next team around. It can't be done overnight, even if we bought 5 world class players this summer, so put your money away ????... :)

Otta Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Nice to see SOME of their fans brought down a peg > or two and realise that trophies aren't theirs by > right, but certainly don't include RD in that > group. I think it's more of a human trait than specific to a particular club's set of fans. If a club such as Norwich had the same success Utd have had, you would still get SOME fans with similar mindsets, goes with the territory I'm afraid. I'm surprised some people give them so much credence, but as Quits said, there's a lot of irrationality around at the moment...

Ok, let me explain for the mathematically challenged amongst us. I'll take the example of Utd selling Rooney and replacing him with Bayern's Tony Kroos... If you believe the headline figures, Rooney's current wages are ?250k a week, and there have been quotes in the press that Utd would have to pay Kroos similar, so they cancel each other out. But as I've already said, you have to factor in the additional cost of Rooney's wage increase, which equates to ?11.7m over 4 and a half years. If Utd had to sell Rooney this summer we would've got ?20m max for him, generous when you consider Chelsea offered ?23m and ?25m last summer, it could even be as low as ?15m because of the fear of losing him for nothing the following summer. So let's split the difference and say ?17.m. Add this to the additional costs of Rooney's wages, and that totals ?29.2m. That is the figure that Utd would have to pay Bayern in order to break even. To prise away a player of his class and age, and from a non selling club like Bayern is highly unlikely for that sort of money. Again, as I've already said before, you also have to factor in the commercial revenue a player brings to the club, which is hard to quantify. But in the global commercial market it's safe to say that Rooney is worth a hell of a lot more than Kroos is. I've taken Kroos as an example because he would be one of the 'cheaper' options. Signing a player like Falcao would cost considerably more in both transfer fee and wages. Which brings me onto the subject of Monaco. Why is Monaco a 'completely different situation'? I cited them because they are a club that aren't in the Champions League, yet still managed to sign top players, one being the most sought after forward at the time, Falcao, as well as others. Somehow I don't think it was the allure of playing in front of 6,000 fans that swung it for them. Millhaven's post about Chelsea somehow 'gifting' Mata to Utd was too laughable to even warrant a reply, but since you've brought it up, read this article... http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2014/jan/26/chelsea-manchester-united-juan-mata-transfer What the article doesn't mention is that clubs like Chelsea can no longer rely on their sugar daddies to keep dipping into their bottomless pockets, and they now have to adhere to Financial Fair Play rules. Chelsea can't keep buying ad nauseum like they did before, they now have to sell in order to balance their books...

Champions League Last 16 Round 2 scores... RC - 2 Correct Results + 1 Correct Score = 5 pts RD - 2 Correct Results + 1 Correct Score = 5 pts BS - 1 Correct Result + 1 Correct Score = 4 pts LG - 3 Correct Results + 0 Correct Scores = 3 pts AqM - 2 Correct Results + 0 Correct Scores = 2 pts Mx - 2 Correct Results + 0 Correct Scores = 2 pts JL - 1 Correct Result + 0 Correct Scores = 1 pt OT - 1 Correct Result + 0 Correct Scores = 1 pt SC - 1 Correct Result + 0 Correct Scores = 1 pt On current standings OT would be knocked-out at QF stage...

StraferJack Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > projected income could fall drastically if the > team remains where it is Unlikely in the short term. New shirt sponsors Chevrolet have already stated that the new shirt deal will not be affected by Utd not being in the CL. And currently there's a bidding war between the shirt manufacturers. > what about new signings - won't they be in the > same wage ballpark? I guess it depends who they are. A Falcao maybe, but not the likes of Kroos and Reus. Unless a new signing is commercially as attractive as Rooney, then I don't believe they would get parity with his wages. > Assuming Glazers do spend of course As much as I dislike them, the Glazers are astute businessmen and they know they now have to invest, it's a basic business model. It's just not in their interest to see the value of the club drop...

There will be no problem with the cashflow SJ. Rooney's additional wage costs amount to ?11.7m over 4 and a half years, smallfry when you factor in the projected additional income quoted from the likes of Sky, shirt suppliers and sponsors etc. Rooney also brings in a lot of commercial revenue to the club, especially from abroad, which is hard to quantify. Whether people here like him or not, abroad Rooney is seen as 'that guy' for Utd and England. Not being in the CL won't be a financial hardship either, and judging by Monoco's experience, players will sign for non CL teams if the money is right. Not that I'm advocating any of this, I would much prefer if all the extra money that is sloshing around in the gane went on reducing ticket prices, but that ain't gonna happen...

What Ots said. In the final year of his contract, Rooney would've beeen worth ?20m tops this summer. Real Madrid offered ?80m for Ronaldo, cash...you do the maths.

StraferJack Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > that said, I expect we will get Pep to replace > him, so I'm not tooooo worried That's some expectation SJ, having said that Pep did leave Barca after burning himself out there, so the same might happen at Bayern in 3-5 years time. Playing style he would certainly be less of an upheaval than Moyes is proving to be...

Yep, I saw that too. There was also something about the NYSE, because that's where the club would have to announce a sacking. Arsenal will one day have a similar problem when Wenger leaves, I hope you're taking notes ;-)

StraferJack Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Rumour mill in overdrive > > Announcement any minute now? Twitter was ahead of the curve over the Dalglish sacking, but can't see that one being true SJ. Up to now he's had the backing of the match going supporters, especially at away games. If this changes then he will be on dodgy ground...

It's not as simple as that though MH, there were lots of factors at play last season, just as there are this season. Your team Chelsea were poor in the league last season, but that could be put down to managerial issues and/or distraction by the Europa League, which you won, not bad for 'worse than mediocre'...

I didn't know we'd signed Joe Hart!...

Oh fook, they're all coming out of the woodwork this morning :)...

Mick Mac Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Where you are starting from is the key difference > RD. > > Liverpool - desperate to try anything after 20 > years without winning. Choose a manager on the up. > Still haven't won anything but people consider > that "doing very well" because of the starting > point being low. Well it didn't stop you from putting a bet on them to win the League, or do you like throwing your money away? :) > Man United - a winning formula, quality manager > with a winning mentality swopped for a relative > novice. Stupid move. Who isn't a 'relative novice' compared to Fergie? It was always going to be a downward trajectory of some sort whoever was appointed...

Mick Mac Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Mick Mac Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > Its was the end as soon as they appointed a > > manager who had never won anything. If only football was that simplistic Mick. Liverpool also have a manager who hasn't won anything, yet they're doing very well...

Yep, Carrick is a good player, but not a leader. He was actually shrugging his shoulders in that interview, something Keane would never have done. I'm beginning to wonder if this lack of fight is actually rubbing off from Moyes. I've said it before, all his interviews lack conviction, there's never any positivity with him (apparently he was known as Dithering Dave at Everton), instead all he offers is a ''we'll try our best, try and win the next game'' mentality...not good enough. And no, we don't want BFS :)

Totally agree Jah. That was easily the worse performance I've witnessed for a loooooong time. Not just a couple of players, but virtually the whole outfield team were inept. Roy Keane was right about Carrick's postmatch interview summing up the team's performance...devoid of any passion.

Yes, and you can have Cleverly and Young for nowt too...

Tonight's Zenit game kicks off at 5pm UK time, so get your predictions in before then if you want that match to count...

Alan Medic Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > As I've resigned please feel free to make > alternative arrangements with my q/final berth. We've never had a Cup resignation before, so there is no rule/precedent to fall back on. I can think of two options to resolve this, and as one of them favours me, I will put them to the vote. The first option is that Maxxi gets a bye into the next round. The second option is that the 9th placed team plays in leiu of Meds. Over to you predictors...

aquarius moon Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I'm against EP in the next round of the FA cup?! > > Might as well get my coat now then.......... Draw is based on the position a player finishes in the mini league, and the numbers of the balls in the official draw, e.g. Arsenal (3) drew Everton (8), so EP v you! :)

FA Cup 5th round scores... OT - 2 Correct Results + 3 Correct Scores = 11 pts LG - 4 Correct Results + 1 Correct Score = 7 pts EP - 3 Correct Results + 1 Correct Score = 6 pts RC - 3 Correct Results + 1 Correct Score = 6 pts AqM - 2 Correct Results + 1 Correct Score = 5 pts RD - 2 Correct Results + 1 Correct Score = 5 pts Mx - 1 Correct Result + 1 Correct Score = 4 pts SC - 0 Correct Results + 1 Correct Score = 3 pts AM - 2 Correct Results + 0 Correct Scores = 2 pts JL - 1 Correct Result + 0 Correct Scores = 1 pt RD, JL and PD have been knocked-out which means there'll be a new name on the cup this year. The draw for the head to head QF matches is as follows... EP v AqM RC v SC AM v Mx OT v LG Fixtures to follow before they take place on 8th & 9th March...

Tuesday 25th February 2014 Zenit 1 Borussia Dortmund 2 Olympiakos 1 Man Utd 3 Wednesday 26th February 2014 FC Schalke 1 Real Madrid 3 Galatasaray 1 Chelsea 1