????

I bought a relatively conservatively invested share ISA for ?7k with some dosh from a sale of property in 1997, after the Dot.com crash it plummeted. I sold it in 2011 for ?7100, great return. FTSE is still at 5,400ish or less at the mo compared to 7200(?) just before the crash. Those with guaranteed state funded pensions don't have to worry about this sort of shite and it all feels a bit abstract but its buggered the future for everyone else. Not helped by one of Gordon's multiple stealth taxes, the one on on pension charges which buggered private pension funds even more so he could guild the nest of his paymasters members....ironically he's foooked our society even more by making it almost politically impossible for any political party to raise the basic rate of tax, something we will have to do to maintain Public Services as they are. Pensions are boring, Brown used that to raid them for revenue to spend on politics.

For big and little kids everywhere - white room, white furnitures and fittings, free stickers, er......do what you want. What is there not to love?

Medium rare for me

Otta's right. I think both Huge in the OP and SJ are confused between state and society. Are we a secular society - yes by and large (thank gooodness) Are we a secular state - er no, We're not. Look at the monrachs full title for intsance "Defender of the Faith" give it away?) and far less so than France and the US are for instance, which paradoxically in thhe latter's case is far less a Secular society than us.

Mentioning people otta? Wtf. Complaining about people you don't like (EDS NOTE WHERE DO I SAY THIS?) In a thread which doesn't talk about them isn't "mentioning". It's bringing up a totemic bogeyman to express prejudice, not to talk about the point in hand Truly lOL that SJ has now got me as some wacky creationist becuase I pointed out the 'evangelical' tone of Dawkins (I have his book by the way) et al is beginning to bore me in the way that say dull old protestant vicars have for years. ...I thought that unlike say mr DC you didn't have me down as some sort of right wing nutjob, quite shocked that a throway remark about Dawkins in a thread about the role of religion in the state send you into such a frenzy. Ithought you got me...a bit. Coming Next SJ trawls through threads looking for evidence that Quids is in the Tea Party.

StraferJack Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > "...to be honest I'm as bored of Richard Dawkins > et al as I am of Archbishop Runcie." > > So bored in fact, you brought him up when NOONE > else did cooor, fancy that bringing up Richard Dawkins in a thread about securalism, reliogous intolerance, the role of religion in the state etc etc, how irrelevant. To be frank SJ i'm copletley baffled by your post, you think Dawkins etc are irrelevant to this subject? *walks away scratching head slightly bemused

...to be honest I'm as bored of Richard Dawkins et al as I am of Archbishop Runcie.

Mumbo jumbo it may all be BUT ...er, are we a secular state Huge? I don't think so. ..and to Loz, I believe (not checked) that Sharia Law is being accepted as law in some areas (by which I maen both legally -in civil areas of the law - and geographically). So sort of double standards. ...strikes me Christianity and the C 0f E especially is an easy target. I think they're by and large a bunch of misguided bumblers. A few counsillors saying the Lords Prayer strikes me as far less scary than the unelected idiots of European Bureacracy who hold the reins on Greece, Irealnd and Italy for example Huge

On the whole I have a lot of reasonable amount of time for Liverpool, its fans and Daglish. On this, they should all be ashamed of themselves. Suarez is clearly a nasty piece of work and Daglish has acted disgustingly.

...to be fair to the dutch (fair I hope niot an excuse) it's a pretty small place with probably a pretty efficiient pre-war bureacracy that makes people's whereabouts pretty easy to find. I think the Balkans and Poland (infact eastern europe and russia as a whole) had pretty appalling anti-semitic histories prior to WW2 as well. Ironically Germany/Austria didn't really.

Come on RD - you've got a manager who wanted Gordon Brown to still be PM ;-)

We could threaten to throw in Wales as well unless they pay top dollar.

I think you're just confusing where we are are now with what the very near future will look like in terms of resource requirements (see also pensions)...soooooooooo maybe that's just because people aren't really aware about what oongoing commitments with a rapidly ageing population means (without some radical overhaul) in terms of the future tax burden. Try and getting a vote for the basic tax rate to go back to 30% to pay for maintaing current standards in the NHS as a vote winner say? "A conservative estimate at cost savings would be about 15 billion a year. Amazing that noone is doing anything about it." that's classic unweldy bureacracy for you Everyone wants first class public services paid for by someone else

Ways out of debt crisis part 117 Sell Falklands/Malvinas to Argies for X billions and laese it back off them for 125 years so that locals can plan appropraitely. Greece should do this with Cyprus too (er, sell it to Turkey not Argentian obvioulsy!) :)) PS Idea shamelessy knicked from Spectator

red devil Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > maxxi Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > red devil Wrote: > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > > ----- > > > > > > Maxxi, friendly question, you don't strike me > as > > a > > > knuckle-dragging bonehead, so I just wondered > > how > > > you squared your obvious liking for Di Canio > > and > > > his well known pro-Mussolini/fascist views... > > > > I don't. > > Hmmmm, any other 'appy Hammers out there care to > expand on this particular moral maze. > For me it's zero tolerance. > > Paulo hails the No. 88 to the Pantheon... > http://web.orange.co.uk/images/ice/sports/di_canio > _pa_419c234ed09644f0d9d4dc02786b73b9.jpg Do i Think PDC is a Nazi? no. Do I think he's a hot headed, emotional guy who was giving the Curva North their traditional salute, the Roman Salute (unfortunately centuries later ADOPTED by Mussollini). Sttooopid tribal, behaviour by a bloke prone to it...I do not think he's a fascist at all, anymore than i Think Gascoigne wants to bathe in blood of Fenians (and at least Paulo is actually from the tradition). He's clearly not Karl Marx but the media love this old chestnut....well the traditional suspects do anyway.

...this

..and I can't see where anyone says anything different in this thread? Op just asks a simple question - defensive reactions to anything with 'Peckham ' in it shocker

Personally I think what we need to do is really comprehensive review of what a health service free at delivery should look like in the 21st Century...but that is largely impossible because of the politics, especially the small C conservatine intrasigence from the Health Prefession in general and the Unions, means that no government (but especially a Tory one) can say they are looking and root and branch reform, so intstead we get tinkering, change of direction etc. Long term it is unsustaanable in terms of its current delivery and funding given what I said earlier (demographics and medical advancement). We need radical reform but that as good as politically impossibl - and that appears to me to be becuase of blatant self interest packaged as emotive 'protecting the NHS from those that want to destroy it' and the inevitable weight of massive, self fuffilling, self preserving bureacracy.

...Hold on I'm Coming ...Sam and Dave but the also the great Steve Cropper from the Stax Band in the background (multi-racial in 1966 southern states - brave fellas)

...Nick Griifin for England Manager (the Mash)

Well yes, that's my point.... and his mere 'flock' can only talk to him through the priesthood. No wonder the Reformation happened. Don't trust no-one but yerself I say - priests, doctors, teachers, etc :))

Interesting that now a number of Tories saying drop the Bill as they believe it will get the blame for the inevitable crisis looming in the the NHS - right wing free market critics are almpost saying leave it alone and let it collapse under its own contradicitions We have - ever increasing cost of treatment; - the baby boom generation hitting 65 and fairly soon 75 - the ages when need grow enormously - an infrastructure built largely for 1940s medical practice My personal 'prejudices' are that additionally - some internal culture which sees the NHS as a provider of employment rather than a service for the public - deep internal 'conservatism' a general widespread internal culture of antagonism to reform, which New Labour found everywhere too I'm not saying the current reforms are right, I've given up on this debate but am deeply suspicious of those who advocate the Status Quo and cry "Wolf" ("or literralyy 'they want to deystroy the NHS') at any attemp at reform.

Not very Rock'n'Roll but for me very interesting as; a) Similar ages, area, backgrounds and influences in the 70s (so personally liked that bit) b) a story of sudden/instant global fame c) slide into addiction Ladies and Gentelaman I give you..... Boy George's - Take it Like a Man

Where do we start? Even on a simple level if we are going to listen, shouldn't we believe in God's teaching not the 'church'? - that's the whole problem with the catholic church...you're meant to listen to 'it' not 'god'; it's nothing to do with any god just it's own self-serving crap ....and too often that is revolting, abusive, law breaking, corrupt, immoral, ungodly disgrace. Bring that up at your next confession not that you used a contraceptive.

to be honest with hindsight England's 5-1 victory over Germany was the worst thing that could have happened, it meant Sven got far more credibility than he deserved (from one result) and he was then untouchable until the growing awareness of his inability to get us to compete at a finals (Japan but especially Germany) grounded to nothing as he took all our money (and shagged half our women):(