Glad that post on the bus was toned down a bit Keef, but never skip a load. It's bad for the metabolism. Or something Taking a punt that I'm one of the patronising people, can I disagree? Both on the patronising label and the lit & deb accusation? Growing up in Ireland (yep, i know I overuse that but it is pertinent) I both knew and was related to enough people who bore more than a passing resemblence to the documentary. Too many kids, major alcohol issues, and chronic state-dependance. I knew enough about where I wanted to be to keep my distance (and was accused of snobbery even then - oh the irony) and yet if anyone else (people outside the family, or a documentary crew for example) had a pop I would come to their defence. Family innit So if people want to be outraged at the guy in the doocumentary, go ahead. But it's not an academic excercise, or patronising to point out a wider perspective