SeanMacGabhann

smith (or MacGabhann as we are in Irish!) I think the behaviour we are discussing was more than prevelant before the smoking ban. In fact, with no data to back me up at all, I would hazard that having more people on the street who are not lurching from pub to pub might have a slightly positive, self-policing aspect to it? And as downsouth rightly says, we are talking about it as a subject, but the reality is it's not that bad and far preferable to most other places, not just in South London but almost any of the picture-postcard towns in the Home Counties

snap Brendan As Mike Skinner put it "Two great European narcotics, Alcohol and Christianity, I know which one I prefer"

hmmm - good point LadyG Anyone fancy making a half-day of it?

Yeah but if that was introduced Piers, it would be like The Premiership - nominally contested by many but in actuality *Bob* and snorky would be duking it out every week

Well I was the altar boy as well so I was already in the bleedin church as a youngster. As an adult the chances of me attending a service are as likely as me never posting on here again

oooh Brendan you just reminded me. The family home back in Ireland is 10 yards opposite a massive Catholic Church. Growing up I used to even ring the bell. Some years ago the old bell was replaced by an automated one and it is the loudest thing I have ever heard The first time I went back for a visit after it was installed I couldn't believe how loud it was and for how long it went on. You're probably thinking "ok ok so a loud bell...." but seriously - this thing is ridiculous. No chance of sleeping through it

I hear what you say cdonline but is it really a third rate service. It has definitely gone downhill in recent years but if we accept the practices you mention were still rife back when it was a much better service, is it really those practices or is it the recent management changes which have caused the slide?

barry - tis true what you say. Compared to many other places it's not really that bad and I'm not actually that bothered. Myself and LadyMacGabhann were able to make our way home (via dodgy take away outlet) with nary a hint of menace (or bus come to that) But I am still interested in the psychology of the whole thing Oh and well done Piers for so vividly bringing back memories of my youth also, having washed up in Swindon as but a slip of a lad I too forget just how intimidated I used to be

but where does that idea come from and why does it seem so prevelant in this country?

I've started this thread as snorky made some excellent points in a thread appealing for witnesses but I felt it would end up being lounged if we continued this conversation there.. so: Snorky said: "There is a change in the demographic of LL at weekends - Ive comented on this ebfore, but you will find groups of rought n tumble white males trekking to LL for the " posh totty" on offer - dito, you will alos see an increasing number of visting cacking girls groups who are not locals, power drinking until the early hours snotty arrogant gradutaes with ironic T shirts vs. leathered Working class males in groups = bother go to Clapham or Hoxton and see it in action. ( no reflection on original posters appeal BTW ) expect more of the Friday night action as the lane gets busier. more fighting more litter more broken glass more puke more cop cars more ambulances more disturbances it is of course a licence to print money for the publicans, so they will keep schtum about the fallout from such expansion this, sadly, is part of the baggage you get with living in such a vibrant and trendy part of London - and not something most people consider when they move here. it makes you nostagic for the simple open thuggery of Kings on the Rye" ---------------------- Which I pretty much agree with - however I would argue that having a thriving restaurant/bar scene is A Good Thing. Bar owners shouldn't be responsible for the behaviour of idiots. The question surely is "why can't people in Britain have a drink without behaving as appalingly as they often do?"

Cracking game indeed and I thought the EDT screens were top notch - definitely sorted from the recent blur-o-vision. Good to actually meet AlMurray as well But some people! Turning up 5 minutes before kick off and actually thinking they might get a table???? Never mind they can always stand straight in front of people who actually bothered to get there at a decent time, block their view and then get indignant when it's pointed out to them. Tossers

I should give the cabin another try then. I found the food overly dependant on artificial colours and the service was 1970s ingratiating - made me very uncumfortable. But I have noticed them making external changes so maybe the game has been raised inside too? Chinese - haven't tried Lamoon yet but it seems to be the most ecommended by a country mile

Funnily enough I went to lunch and read this: Brooker - Noisy Neighbours

You ask a good question. Now, I'M not going to vote for him but I imagine to a lot of his supporters, this is one of the reasons why. But realistically, would he really do that? Pound to a penny says not

It's not just me feeling that way then Keef? Good man, keep up the good work

phew - that smiley made all the difference Simon. I thought you were taking the comment seriously

TO be honest I would be surprised if something that different was introduced and the stats DIDN'T go up - there is bound to be a period of adjustment. I would posit that most of the casualties are a result of people being in their own bubble and just assuming that other traffic will look out for them. When I have a near-miss that's usually the reason. You can always find fault with the other party but if we are being honest with ourselved we know we play a big part too As for the bendy buses themselves, I like them but I wouldn't be evangelical about them. I do miss being able to hop on/off the old routemaster and no-one will ever convince me that not having a conducter is a good idea but to hear some people get REALLY upset about them (usually as a proxy for having a go at Ken) is by turns amusing and depressing

I was in there for Lunch yesterday and an already good experience was only improved by the playlist which included Rich Hawley and Flaming Lips. I sat there with the sun streaming in thinking just how good this place is The Sunday Roast is a good one but it's a shame the menu is otherwise limited on Sunday's - one doesn't always feel like having a full roast

Hi Asset - A few people there last night were there on the strength of the Radio 4 show - but I've not heard it so can't comment. I know that when I saw him present some shows back in the 90s I didn't like him at all and was dissapointed to see him on a bill when I went out to a comedy club some years later - however, that's when I "got" him I've seen him live several times and he can be dreadfully sloppy but he was great last night. Slightly odd crowd - he got a massive ovation when he finished and got an encore but everyone seemed happier to smile rather than laugh during the show itself. A few other forumites were there too, so it was good to see them too Good to have the club open again - even if it feels a tad boxfresh. Ron and Emma have put a ton of work into it so I'll be going back for more (reminder - Stewart Lee is on later this month - genius. Shame I can't make it)

Buzzard - most definitely am not saying anything of the sort. Sorry if I wasn't clear. And please don't "shut up" about anything I was simply making the point that other things would disturb me more - I only mentioned me not having a garden as an attempt at self-deprecation

I'm getting older Buzzard and empathise completely with the "I just want a quiet Sunday morning without any racket" sentiment But if I had a garden to sit in (pauses momentarily and wonders why that isn't the case) I'm not sure the sound you describe (as I understand it) would be that much of a problem. That's not me trying to deny it is a problem for you, just.... there are worse is what I'm saying All that said, after the weekend I have had, they clacking of the keys as I type is a major noise problem for me ;-)

downsouth makes almost 100% correct assumptions (and gains bonus points for crowbaring the almost neglected phrase "ipso facto" in !) but neglects to mention what exactly the whole exercise is for yes it's going to happen. yes the Tories would do the same. But. To. What. End? I genuinely don't believe the public will benefit. It's all very well saying the union is stuck in the past, but that's no more dogmatic an approach than that of the government and management (and has the advantage of at least giving the public what they want) There is an argument that says "do we actually need the postal service as it has been?" but that's not the argument the government/management are honest enough to make

I think the obvious answer to that is.. both. I have to report that despite Friday night, a similar performance on Saturdat AND doing the same tonight I feel ok...... It will all kick in when I arrive at my desk tomorrow I'm sure

maybe Anna, maybe.. but you're looking good on it Can we surmise then, from everyones' reports, that coming to these drinks, even as a first timer is fun? And A Good Thing? Can we have more please?

I don't think we live in a McArthyite society Dom... there are certainly people who like to find offense at everything and remind one of the Millie Tant character in Viz And yet, and yet... One only has to listen to phone-in radio shows to hear many a person, all too clearly racist but feeling they can't QUITE come out and say what they want. Liberal guilt about (in particular) black cultures hasn't arrived out of nowhere If we lived in a society which didn't have casual racism as part of a daily environment then "plain speaking" might be more possible. It's not just liberal opinion which creates the climate where offending people becomes a touchy subject It's not racist, offensive or "pc" or "non-pc" to say that the church services to which this thread refers are from an afro-carribean culture. As it happens, I think religious worship from any culture, be it Anglo-Saxon or Afro-Carribean is in itself misguided ... but if it's what people want to do then by all means go ahead. Just don't expect special treatment to non-believers. But Maurice is no martyr for pointing out the bleedin obvious. What gets peoples' radars twitching is the reason behind the complaint I live close to a church which has these services (or have done.. to be honest I haven't heard a peep for a while) - in any case, for an hour on a Sunday morning it doesn't bother me. Not compared to the yapping dog in the garden of the near-neighbour who let's it whine for hours on end...or the 30-40 something neighbour who still thinks it's 1995, and plays trance at 4am. If I was to complain about the noise eminating from churches SPECIFICALLY, then I would like to think I am noise sensitive and have a whole bunch of other noises I would like to complain about as well. Living in London, I'm spoilt for choice To complain about ONLY black people singing/using drums as a noise source does leave one open to accusations of , at best, suspicious motivation. It isn't MCarthyite to be fair to everyone and to be aware of peoples prejudices. And despite what the right--wing media would have us believe, white people JUST ARE NOT persecuted in modern western society.