legalbeagle

Ultraconsultancy - as you will appreciate I still can't go into details but in this particular case things are a little more complex. Suffice it to say the landlord most certainly has not killed us off, and we hope to be back into the building in the next few days.

Princess - I am so sorry that you have had this worry, but please be assured that your wedding drinks are not at risk in any way. If you PM me with a contact number I will get one of the owners to give you a call asap to discuss, and put your mind at rest.

Jamma - I am sorry you feel that way, I guess we just can't please all of the customers all of the time. We also have no problem with any of you mentioning "the drain issue" should you want to. The request not to do so has come from elsewhere - although I do not know who from.

As the forum has undoubtedly noticed I am a huge fan of G&B and have enjoyed many a wonderful evening there. So much so in fact that I am in the process of joining the management of the business - a job I am delighted to be able to take. You will all appreciate that I am now very limited in any comments I make about this mornings developments. What I can say is that there are many reasons why landlords take such action, the situation is in flux and could change very quickly, and the business is by no means permanently closed. For those of you who are fans and/or loyal customers please bear with us, and we hope to see you all for a drink later on this weekend. Kate and Jude (the owners of Green & Blue) are extremely grateful for the many supportive postings that have appeared this morning.

I have spoken directly to the owners of G&B about this and they most certainly have not issued proceedings for any amount of money against anyone. In any event discussion of this nature is very unfair - both to Celestial, since it suggests they have done something wrong, and we have no proof of that, and to G&B, who are probably, as SimonM says, now in the hands of their insurer and so unable to comment one way or the other. Perhaps it would be better to just be pleased that two local independent businesses continue to exist, and hopefully to thrive, and hope that if they do have differences they can be resolved quickly.

Nutty - that is the impression the assistant gave me, and I did notice that part of the back of Celestial was screened off last week as work was going on out the back.

I gather that the drains are now fixed - an assistant at Celestial told me that they had had workmen in fixing the problem so looks like all will hopefully be back to normal.

Green & Blue are opening again tonight - perhaps those of you who are fans can pop in for a drink to show them some support and get them back up and running quickly?

Dulwichbloke - of course you are right, much will depend on the terms of the lease. The point I'm trying to make is that it is really tough for leaseholders - whoever they are - when problems like this arise. They might be responsible for the drains that are part of the premises they lease, but what about if the problem arises elsewhere? Legally all a leaseholder is entitled to do is look to their landlord, and if he hasn't caused the problem, he is the one with the legal power to force whoever has caused the problem to fix it. So if your landlord doesn't act, you have to force him to, which is time consuming and expensive. I have no clue whether a neighbour, and near neighbour, or the landlord will end up paying so in that sense I am not taking sides against anyone, I am just taking sides with Green & Blue because I can't see how any of this is their fault. Surely if they could have fixed the problem they would have done, rather than shut their business.

Well if the problem was under G&B's property you would have been right on the button! I don't work in commercial property any more but I have had some experience of commercial leases and their various issues in the past.

Sorry should have read "very positive postings"!

Snorky - the blog also says that G&B are very grateful for the "numerous very postings we have received". Bit of unfair editing on your part I think!

Ultraconsultancy - you are of course right that a tenant usually takes responsibility for repairing the premises he has leased, including drains. However, my understanding is that it is not the drains under G&B where there is a problem, but that there is a blockage elsewhere in the drains that service that row of shops, and unfortunately the water/waste that backs up is ending up in G&B - or would be if they weren't having it pumped out. In that case, the landlord is responsible for ensuring that the problem is rectified because the problem does not exist in a part of the leased property. As matter of property law, in general tenants don't have the right to force other property owners to assist with such problems, that is something that a freeholder ie landlord has to do. finally, the problem interferes with the tenants right to quiet enjoyment of the property that is leased, which is a right that a tenant has whether or not it is written in the lease, and the landlord is likely to be in breach of that right. My guess is that if G&B were able to fix the problem, they would have done. You wouldn't shut your business unless you had no other choice.

Kilgore Trout - you are exactly right. The responsibility for sorting out Green & Blue's problems sits with their Landlord, and it must be pretty galling for G&B to pay the huge rents now demanded on Lordship Lane, only to get such a rubbish response from their landlord when something goes wrong with his building. Looks to me like he's happy to take the money but doesn't really care what happens after that. Pretty shortsighted, because if G&B do go under then who is going to want to rent a place where the landlord is clearly so unreliable? He is risking his own income as well as someone else's business. Until it is sorted out lets show our support for a local business and if you buy wine from the supermarket then stop doing that and buy from G&B instead. I bought a bottle for ?5.99 the other day so it won't cost any more than buying it at Sainsbury.

My understanding is that the drains at the back of the row of shops that G&B is a part of are blocked and have partially collapsed. For whatever reason, the damage/blockage cannot be resolved by G&B alone, and so until action is taken by a number of different parties, (and I am absolutely not pointing the finger at anyone here) they continue to cause a problem. At the moment the drains have to be pumped out every morning (you may have seen the huge lorry that turns up daily and does the pumping) otherwise they will flood. I think it must also mean that G&B can't use much in the way of water etc as they have had to serve all food etc on paper plates. Plus I think they must have moved some stock to the back of the deli to prevent it being damaged, as last time I went in there it was full of boxes. Which means there is nowhere to do the wine tasting courses. I think the combination of all of this must mean they are losing business plus I can't imagine plumbing issues are cheap to solve!

I agree with you Mark. I have been on a wine tasting there too and think the owners were professional and friendly. It must be extremely difficult to maintain a professional front when you are facing losing a business that you have worked so hard for. I am sure we all realise how incredibly difficult it is for small businesses, whatever they do or sell, to survive, which is why so many of our highstreets now all look the same. I suppose the difference is that when we have a bad day at work most of us can find some private space till we are feeling better about it, whereas they have to continue to deal with and be seen by the public no matter how hard things get. I note with sadness that G&B remain closed today. I really hope they can sort this out somehow and soon.

Bellenden Belle Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Leaglebeagle - I think your post is really rather > rude regarding Peckhamgatecrasher's definition. A > good debater takes issue with what a person says, > without directing their negative comments towards > the person themselves. > > I like Green and Blue but I think (and I have said > it before) they are terribly unprofessional - the > tears in the shop (according to their own blog); > the petty notes on the door. > > And let's not be under any doubt - they have every > intention of making Green and Blue into a chain - > they have been very upfront in their ambition. > > I hope it opens - but I do feel for poor old > Celestial. Dear BB and Mr Crasher - I was just teasing! No offence intended - I clearly need to learn how to insert the smiley face thing so you don't get the wrong idea. I actually think Mr Crasher's postings are both quite funny! But we are going to incur the wrath of the administrator if we carry this on so back to G&B. Mark is quite right, the notice doesn't mention neighbours.

ped?ant ? noun 1. a person who makes an excessive or inappropriate display of learning. 2. a person who overemphasizes rules or minor details. 3. a person who adheres rigidly to book knowledge without regard to common sense. My understanding is that they will open the wine shop part of the business (but not the food, drink etc) tomorrow. I imagine that must be because they won't have to wash up/provide bathrooms for the public, etc. So if we want to help them we can try and buy our booze there - and as I mentioned before, that doesn't need to mean spending more money.

I feel really sorry for them. They are an excellent business and I have had nothing but good experiences there. Don't make the mistake of thinking that they only sell expensive wine either - I got a really fanstastic bottle for ?6 which was so much more delicious than anything I've ever bought in a supermarket. Just tell them your budget and the staff always come up with something great. I think the owners are really friendly, so if anyone found them rude then maybe it was only because they must be at the absolute end of their tether with this issue which I gather has been going on since June. Imagine putting in all of that work, and managing to pay to huge rents the LLane now requires, only to be at risk of losing your jobs and your livelihood over a dodgy drain. Doesn't really matter whose fault it is, it must be gutting. G&B rent that building, they don't own the freehold, and I do know that leaseholders aren't in a position to fix those kind of issues, because they don't own the building and therefore any of the services (water gas electric)etc that go into it. So whoever has caused this problem, G&B are suffering through no fault of their own. Doesn't really seem fair. By the way, they do have a very new wine bar in Clapham (no shop though) which has just opened. Can't see how that makes them a chain!