Jenny1

miga Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I feel very sorry for May, on a personal level. I'm afraid I agree with edcam on this one, so feel no sympathy for TM. She knows exactly how much damage Brexit will do to the country and yet grimly sticks to executing it. This is because to do otherwise would be to acknowledge her own and her party's complete ineptitude. If she or her party were really thinking about the public good they'd have set up a cross party commission immediately after the referendum result last year to work out how to move forwards. By mounting the referendum in the first place they directly caused the biggest challenge to this country's economy - and thus to our public services - for decades. Having done that they should have faced up to the magnitude of what was going on rather than focusing on desperately clinging to power. I'm sure TM is good at passing exams. But it takes more than that to lead a political party, let alone a country.

....and actually if you had wanted to design a policy to kipper the economy, ironically, hers would have been a fine one.

steveo Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > 'TM's stance on Brexit which is specifically > designed to kipper the economy...' > > Could you explain to us why she wants to destroy > the economy? Is she a KGB agent? What fun it would be if she were! No - more prosaic than that. Simply not strong or principled enough to keep the economic interests of the country as her first priority whilst mounting a rearguard action against the right wing of her own party. John Major managed it - and he's not exactly Winston Churchill - so there's really no excuse that neither she or Cameron could. The 'specifically designed' is facetious on my part, of course. But it's supposed to highlight the fact that the policy was in no way 'designed' to achieve anything, except keep the UKIP wing of the Tories happy.

rendelharris Wrote: > Well deserving of an apology I'd say. > > ETA The election will have cost around ?150M, > including, extraordinarily, ?9M given to MPs > who've lost their seats as "winding up expenses." > Certainly winds me up! Absolutely. Appalling waste of money. And of course the election was called with the aim of promoting TM's stance on Brexit which is specifically designed to kipper the economy and consequently put the funding of public services at risk. I still don't get when the Tories became the party of messing up the finances. The only selling point they've had in my lifetime was the argument that they promoted business and industry, thus creating wealth that would benefit all. I can't say I'm convinced by the 'trickle down' argument - but it was all they had, and now they've ditched it.

JoeLeg Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > > I'm still none the wiser where it will leave > Brexit negotiations though. From the perspective of people who want a proper debate about what on earth we might try to achieve, the fluidity of the situation has to be helpful.

Yes. Sure that's right. I'm thinking about the cash.

As Jessica Elgot tweeted - in a long exchange about the putative deal with the DUP this morning, Michael Fallon never committed to the nature of the terms becoming public.

Seabag Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > > I'd not wonder too hard about the deal, as May and > her 'government' are toast on this one I reckon. But whichever Tory is trying to be PM, they're going to have to cobble an arrangement together. I doubt the Conservatives will give up the battle to form some kind of viable government too quickly. I can imagine the DUP will want their X billion for infrastructure projects up front though....as they won't want to bet on the whole wobbly edifice lasting very long.

Once a deal is done with the DUP, I wonder if we'll find out how much cash they've demanded?

I just hope we don't get foisted with Boris.

Sorry - got that wrong. That was attributed to Cameron of course (or one of his crew). The Major quote I shall have to seek out...something along the lines of 'romantics, lunatics and bastards'.

jaywalker Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > > The DUP connection is already absolutely toxic. > She risks losing many seats with this connection - > the Mirror headline today is all you need to see > that. And she is putting peace in Northern Ireland > at risk to stay in power. Not good. And also not > necessary: she could get supply from the centre > ground (in exchange for a softer than soft Brexit) > - but of course that would mean the hard right of > her own party splitting off. > > Well I wish she had the flexibility and vision to seek moderate alliances. But I guess if she had that capacity we would never have had all this 'Brexit means Brexit' silliness. She does seem to be in hock to the 'swivel-eyed loons' (as Major famously called them).

Louisa Wrote: If > they've learnt anything from this, it's surely > that they need the moderate centre to take the > discussion back towards a soft Brexit and > remaining in the single market. > > I certainly hope that's what they've learnt. But there are plenty of die-hard Tory MPs (both on social issues and Brexit).

red devil Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > One has just resigned (Nick Timothy)... It was clearly not sensible or productive for May to operate such an isolationist management style; sitting in her bunker with Hill and Timothy. But Timothy is, ideologically, from the 'moderate' wing of the party. I do hope we're not now going to see the rise of the Tory extremists.

Also to say the Epley Manoeuvre is something many NHS GPs can do. Though not all.

Aboslutely. I'm sure they're all positioning like crazy. I'd just like one of them to actually do something decisive to reshape the political landscape for once.

Blast. Seems it's not true!

I'm not altogether a fan of Ruth Davidson but this move, I like. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/09/ruth-davidson-planning-scottish-tory-breakaway-challenges-theresa/ So now the Scottish Tories are taking the lead in splitting from the Conservative Party and will fight for continued membership of the Single Market. I see this as simple common sense and a way of salvaging some kind of viable economic future out of the havoc created by Cameron and Co. I hope other politicans (of whatever party) will also take this as a sign that now is the time to start think creativly about how you organise yourselves. If they had more gumption we'd have had a new centre party by September of last year.

red devil Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > She hasn't thought this through has she? Sound > familiar?...:) Does look as if we're in Cameron's favourite territory, 'back of envelope' land.

red devil Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Direct rule on it's way?... I don't think so. Can't see that being implemented. I just assume the DUP/Tory agreement can't last very long.

Yes. He made a similar point on World At One. The UK government cannot function as the honest broker in the NI power sharing agreement (which of course has hit the rocks), it it's dependent on one of the parties involved for it's own political survival.

Yes - have taken the Stemetil. It doesn't 'cure' the underlying problem but deals with the symptoms. I suffered no side effects. I really think rest is important if the cause is suspected to be viral - as it is for many people. But the Epley Manoeuvre is really worth a try.

red devil Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Soundbite Alert!...In the national interest has > replaced Strong and stable... What is so irritating about this (to put it mildly) is that, as others have said, this is the second time in 12 months that a Tory government has, completely unnecessarily, created a national crisis. In what universe do you manufacture 'the greatest peacetime challenge this country has ever faced' (or words to that effect), and then, without so much as a blush, put your 'Churchill cloak' on?

Very funny quote on twitter describing the DUP manifesto - 'Basically just The Bible, with fortnightly bin collections'.

JoeLeg Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I imagine they'll bring a shopping list. Wonder what'll be on the list. Aside from assurances that Northern Ireland will have no 'special status' after Brexit. As rendelharris says, they're an illiberal bunch.