Jenny1

...and to be clear. By failing to cushion the poor and disadvantaged more effectively from the effects of the global crash Cameron fostered the roots of extremism. He increased a lot of people's sense of insecurity, thus throwing them into the arms of UKIP, Momentum or whatever else was going. He created the impression that government and perhaps society as a whole (as currently structured) was unwilling or unable to protect them.

I think Cameron's problem was that he wasn't a serious person with a broad perspective on history or a deeply rooted social conscience. He presented himself, and undoubtedly thought of himself, as a 'One Nation Tory', but didn't actually do what was needed. I heard an interesting interview with his policy guy, Oliver Letwin, who many of us will remember as a keen Thatcherite. Letwin spoke about his own, I'm sure quite genuine, journey from the 'old days' when he perceived anyone who was poor or disadvantaged as simply needing to 'pull themselves up by their own bootstraps', to his more nuanced understanding that society needs to be structured to help people get a decent start in life and to support them when things go wrong. He credited Tony Blair with making him understand the value of the latter view. But in reality Cameron's government didn't go nearly far enough in working out or implementing a strategy that did this. In the end Cameron wasn't enough like Blair or Brown. And one reason (among many) why this is a problem is because of 2008. If our current crop of politicians had a proper understanding of history they'd know very well what happens in the wake of global financial crashes. Extreme political polarisation and the rise of the 'lunatic fringe'. Left and Right cease to matter under these circumstances - it's all about 'personality politicians' (demagogues) with crowd-winning extreme messages and a desire to 'tear up the rulebook'. None of them should be trusted. During the '30s the poisonous Oswald Mosley was happy to be an MP for both Labour and Conservative, not to mention founding a couple of political parties himself. If we care about stability and fairness for the majority, we have to hang onto the centre ground very fiercely indeed. We mustn't be distracted by ideas of the evil 'right' or 'left', but be prepared to counter extremists of any hue, no matter where they come from.

I agree that too often they favour such projects rahrahrah, but clearly not always.

I agree with all that ???? except this ???? Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > the Referendum ...would have > come in the end whatever I don't think the referendum was inevitable. Cameron partly called it, of course, in order to win the last election (which ironically I don't think he particularly wanted to do - he showed signs of having had enough of being PM by then). I suspect his other motive was petulance and impatience. He'd simply got tired of Tory Eurosceptics, so challenged them to the referendum campaign. That was foolish of him. You're never going to get rid of all the griping, irritating people - and must learn to put up with them.

I agree entirely with rahrahrah. I'm sure Dave is pleasant. But he's also a foolish lightweight. Not good enough when you're trying to run a country.

I learnt some interesting history about this shop recently. Apparently it used to be a 'gown' shop - run by a lady tailor. It made me think of the historical photos of East Dulwich which are displayed on Northcross Road - and the mix of shops that would have been seen along Lordship Lane in the early twentieth century. I wonder what sort of gowns sold best?

If you're keen on detective fiction you've probably already read them, but I think Raymond Chandler is still one of the best.

...and now to ignore my own advice. I want to pick up on Loz's point about the German system. I'm against TM's policy, but admire the German system. This is because the German system is aimed at providing high quality specialist education, both academic and non-academic.(As per discussion on the Today programme just pre 0900). This is not what the government is proposing.

I'd be careful about giving too much attention to this announcement (vital though education policy is). I suspect the government is keen to distract us from their lack of post-EU planning.

...but to come back to your central dilemma malumbu. How about printing a selection of T-shirts with quotes about the unity of humanity etc, and changing into a different one each day before going to the pub? I would suggest avoiding true but inflammatory material, such as 'Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel', and instead seeking out strong but uplifting stuff.

That's an interesting link. Clearly a more competent, coherent policy is needed to deal with refugees and I hope DM is in a position to help that happen. And you're right - he's made a good path for himself in the US. But in my view it's a great loss to us that he's neither our PM nor leader of the opposition.

I don't entirely agree JohnL. My heart sank the minute Ed Milliband won the leadership, rather than his brother. EM is clearly more impressive than Corbyn - but he never looked like great leadership material to me. I know we are none of us entirely uninfluenced by 'the media', but I would regard my opinion as having pre-dated any 'media judgement'.

I do hope that a new opposition party will emerge after Corbyn's apparently inevitable re-election as leader of the current Labour Party. But that depends on politicians with vision and courage taking an initiative. If the current political landscape is anything to go by, one can't count on it. If we do have a GE any time soon could the SNP become the official, as well as the de facto, opposition?

I like the idea of 'The World's Smallest Front Yard', as per the plaque in the photo.

I like Helen's comment. Also glad to hear Tim Farron finally making this same point clearly. But there's no real strong, cohesive opposition voice on this. It's disgraceful. This is one of the biggest peacetime challenges of the last 100 years for goodness sake. TM is doing a good job of holding a clear, united government line - but they have no proper sense of direction, and whatever David Davis says to the contrary, the whole process DOES look like a desperate attempt to make the best of a very bad job. I feel very let down by the whole lot of them.

I think it's more dangerous when 'moderate' racists are in the mainstream and are dictating policy, than when 'extreme' racists are making loud noises from the lunatic fringe. Arguably Farage is even more worrying than the BNP were in the 80s.

Thanks Henry. I'll have a look.

PS As I remember it, PVA glue is part of the mix. I'm sure there'd be info online re that.

Never used it myself, but I have a friend who swears by home-made papier mache.

For future reference the last time I needed an OS map I found it in Chener Books. They won't have the range that Stanford's have, naturally, but it's worth a look.

Has anyone seen any recent polling stats on how 'traditional Tory' voters view what's happened over the past few months? I'd be interested in that. In particular I'd like to see how the referendum result has exacerbated the party's pre-existing fault line dividing those whose first concern is global economic stability and those who prioritise immigration control above everything else.

I was reading that jays are often more 'visible' in the autumn as they go in search of acorns. I like the idea of a 'champagne cork' bird. I expect it was a wren, given your description. Though I've also seen a gold crest this year in the hedge outside the house. They're even smaller, but do, unlike the wren, have some colour to them.

Walking up Townley Road yesterday I saw a jay fly into the Alleyn's memorial gardens. I'm always amazed how colourful they are. I don't see jays very often - but then I seem to remember them being few and far between during my childhood as well. Not sure how well they're doing these days.

Perhaps partly because there were still many leading politicians pushing for a rapid triggering of Article 50 - and no-one knew how sane (or otherwise) the next Prime Minister was going to be. I would still argue that if we don't have a sensible, substantive plan in place before 'pushing the button' it will lead to further instability. And I see no such plan in sight.

I think the central point for me is that we can't possibly know how any of this is going to pan out. We'll be in a situation of uncertainty over a lot of things for some time to come. Our government has no plan, neither do the other EU member states. Everyone's making it up as they go along. If you could separate out the costs of civil service time in managing this over the next few decades, I wonder what the bill would be? I take some comfort in the fact that TM is no fool. I just wish we had a functioning opposition who could contribute something to the process. And I still can't help shaking my head in disbelief that it's the Tories (guardians of stability, anyone?!) who've led us down this path. Just reading the very good biography of the Italian writer and demagogue who presaged fascism, Gabriele d'Annunzio, and trying not to look for current global parallels!