Jenny1

Foolish to divide the country. Foolish to throw it into economic turmoil. Foolish to leave it at the mercy of leading politicians who, whilst campaigning to leave the EU, had not the slightest real wish to win the referendum and - once they'd done so - had no alternative plan to put in place.

But wouldn't you agree that that was extremely foolish?

It would not have been relevant ed_pete as I do not think MPs are usually required to debate/vote on maintaining the status quo.

Hi Lordship. Good thinking. I've PM'ed you (and pebs and muffins if they're about).

Well done to Lordship 516, muffins78 and pebs. Signed and shared.

Hi Robert Poste's Child. I had the same thought on another thread. Would Simon Hughes be the best person to write to about this do you think?

Hi pebs. I haven't run a survey before - but it can't be that tricky. I assume you mean a semi-formalised 'vote'. If you have any expertise do let me know. I expect you're right Lordship in your estimation of the current EU strategy. I agree on what might motivate MPs. I think it important to lobby them now. Do add thoughts you may have. Apoplexy is to be dearly wished for.

Thanks Lordship. So it would make sense both to lobby Helen Hayes and to 'lobby' MPs in general via a petition, I suppose - both on a wish for a general election and a wish for MPs to reject Brexit?

Thanks Lordship 516. Any ideas on how members of public can work towards any of these options?

I agree in principle. Seems sensible to join the lib dems under current circumstances. Though I see the SNP offering more right now, but obviously they're not currently relevant to an English electorate (though note my plan on another thread to change that). Could lib dems and SNP do deal maybe? PS Do you know of a current petition calling for a general election pre Article 50 invoked? If not can someone set one up?

Thanks titch juicy. It may be Cloud Cuckoo Land - but I'd rather live there than 'Little England'. If anyone has any ideas about how to make the dream a reality - do chime in.

The way I see it nxjen is that she knows that just as well as we do. But it's her job to manoeuvre into a position where two things slowly (and perhaps quickly) become possible. Scottish independence and Scottish EU membership. She's likely to achieve the first, and maybe the second. The political landscape is shifting rapidly so it's sensible to put place-makers down with speed and to miss no opportunity to do so. She's done that.

I don't want to see the break up of the UK, but the way things are right now I'd like to be given the option of voting for the SNP - with a broadened UK-wide set of policies and mandate of course. I would be quite happy to live in a newly arranged UK in which Edinburgh became the political capital and London the financial capital. The Houses of Parliament could then house a devolved English assembly and a museum. Most of our current 'leaders' would belong in the latter, rather than the former.

So it seems this delightful choice remains open......

But the problem is that shortly the Labour Party may cease to matter very much at all - and therefore neither will it matter very much who leads it. It's plausible that the SNP may be successful in their bid to become the official opposition. I find this very sad. But it's understandable given the way politics has evolved over the past few years.

Hi jaywalker. I agree that logically we now need to see established parties splitting and re-forming to create a new political landscape. I just hope there are personalities involved who have the wit to get on with it quickly. The lesson they should learn from Nicola Sturgeon is that we are going through rapid, seismic change and failing to respond to that could simply leave them (and more importantly us) buried under the rubble.

I don't want to see the UK broken up. But they're not stupid, the SNP, are they? They're showing more political competence than any other party at the moment.

This petition now has more than 4 million signatures. I hope people are continuing to share it. As I said before, I didn't sign because I want a second referendum that simply repeats the first, but because I'm keen to remind those in power that the country remains deeply divided on this important issue. This will effect the complex decisions they take in the weeks to come. I do not believe that referenda are a constructive way of making major policy decisions. This particularly applies when they are hi-jacked as vehicles to win power for people like Boris Johnson. I do not believe that this man is merely an amusing, straight-talking buffoon, with an engaging ability to spout gobbets of ancient history. He has the capacity to be the least competent, and most dangerous, person to lead this country in living memory.

So it seems Jeremy Hunt is now saying something similar (though perhaps not identical) to Helen Hayes on this.

Otta Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Well Cameron has just ruled out a second > referendum, and Helen Hayes has just basically > said she (and I suspect that'll be the common > answer) won't back asking parliament to reject the > result. > > So that's that. Hi Otta. I wouldn't agree that 'that's that' yet. Helen Hayes seems to be saying that while a re-run of the first referendum would not be right, she will fight to get a different referendum further down the line. In this a wider electorate (including 16 year olds and above) will be asked if they accept the precise terms which will, at that stage, have been negotiated with the EU for an exit.

robbin Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > they are not all stupid, > or racist nutters you know. I'm sorry if someone has made that statement to you robbin. I'm pleased to say that I didn't.

The reason I signed this petition is not because I think it will lead to a second referendum, but because it will reinforce the message to those in power that the country is strongly and passionately divided over this matter. This ought to inform what they choose to do next. It's in the same class as Nicola Sturgeon's attempt to block Brexit. It's unlikely to 'work' in and of itself - but it will send the same powerful message. I think there's a very good reason why we've had so few national referenda in this country - and why many countries don't have them at all. They divide people and do not lead to the resolution of real problems.

Hi. I don't know anything about the march on Thursday but there's one on Tuesday afternoon/evening (1700-2000) in Trafalgar Square. A search on google using 'Trafalgar Square London Stays protest' finds it.

Hi Lucy. Thank you for sharing this link. I'm happy to say I'm one of the people who's already signed. Please note Tuesday afternoon/evening (1700-2000) there will be a 'Stay' demonstration in Trafalgar Square. I believe the details are available on Facebook. For anyone interested there are long and well-informed discussions in the 'Lounge' around this issue. I need not repeat here the views expressed by so many people there.

Please sign the petition Louisa - and share it with others. You are not the only person I have heard of today who has had a complete change of heart over this - and a feeling of real distress accompanying that realisation.