Domitianus

DaveR Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > "And those with children are very accomplished at > making the world feel that everything should be > made more convenient for them just because they > have made a certain lifestyle CHOICE!!!" > > A lifestyle choice that brought you into the > world, Dom......oh well, no going back now. I can assure you, DaveR, that my parents didn't expect the world to be turned on its head to accomodate that choice. I think they had sufficient grasp on reality to appreciate that, kids or not, they would prolly have to use the same parking spaces as anyone else and, you know what, they raised three sons without any of us getting trapped in cars whose doors they couldn't open fully or having us turned into strawberry jam after having to walk the length of urselves through a car-park. By God, we were sometimes even allowed to cross busy roads by ourselves.

DCGH Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I'm not from the area and have never really had a > reason to be in E.Dulwich except on this day. I > was sat in the bishop when I saw a man getting > nicked and another being taken away in an > ambulance. A few weeks later I web searched *man > stabbed lordhip lane* mainly to see if the people > involved were OK and found this forum. > A few points: > I was surprised that this was all happening at > 5o'clock in the evening. > The police seemed to arrive in good time, well > sufficient enough to arrest 3 people. I hope the > arrests are followed up with jail terms for the > offenders but doubt it. > The attack seemed targetted, (almost 'gang' > related) so it wouldn't put me off visiting again > if i had too. > It did provide 20 mins of a pub convo afterwards > about the state of socienty broken homes and all > the rest of it. Pretty much what your doing here. > *well it's Peckham innit, what do you expect?* > being my fav comment of the convo! > I'd be more put off by the price of a pint in the > Bishop. I am just waiting to see if this post will develop into a covert marketing plug for the Vale. I mean we have had the innocent, conversational preamble, then the pop at the prices in The Bishop. Next.......

And if visibility in car parks is an issue can we also ban the Chelsea Tractors used to transport these children there in the first place? The are so high up that visibility could be impaired

the-e-dealer Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Children are more likely to be the victims in a > car accident, And in London 75% of accidents where > there are injuries involve people outside the car. > I know when I am trying to park or pull away and > there are kids about it is much harder to do > safely as you cant see them and they will be > unpredictable. Also if I ran over a child I could > never forgive myself. > Safety is designed into roads, cars, Pavements, > Buses, Trains, Stations, Bus stops - even Car > Parks ! Believe it! Pedestrians especially small > ones are highly vulnerable. So what? Is everyone else's experience is to be dictated by your fear that you might knock a child down? If the risk is so significant then why not prohibit children from being allowed in a car park, outside the vehicle at all? Why not surrender your drivng licence? Car parks are environments where cars are driven comparatively slowly and drivers are usually particular alert to ther environment (if for no other reason than to spot a parking space). There will always be POTENTIAL risk in ANY situation. If car parks are considered a hazard then the, by comparison, utterly lethal streets of London should be declared child-free zones to protect th little beggars. And your blend/blur of stats and inferences is highly dubious.

jenren Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Quite often when I'm parked in regular stalls we > get back to the car and someone has parked so > close to our car that I can't get my kid into his > car seat. That little extra bit of room gets him > in and out safely. I know that parents shouldn't > get special treatment, but it's also true that > life with a toddler is scary enough. If a trip to > any business is nightmarish with him than I really > do stop going (childless people smiling > everywhere). But the wise businesses know this, > hence parent stalls. And cramped parking, making it difficult to open doors, is not a problem for those without children???? We just slither through keyholes????? This stuff about "safety" is claptrap. This is simply a matter of CONVENIENCE, not safety. And those with children are very accomplished at making the world feel that everything should be made more convenient for them just because they have made a certain lifestyle CHOICE!!!

taper Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > The Sainsbury's car park is a dangerous place. > Parent parking bays are close to the store to > minimise the danger to children and wider to give > parents more space to get in and out with > children. It is a safety provision. And most > people with children welcome it. Tell me you are joking. PLEASE!!!! "The Sainsbury's car park is a dangerous place." What utter b*****s!!!! If the Sainsbury's car park is a dangerous place then the rest of ED must be a hellish death trap. Get a grip!!!!

Everyone, ultimately, wants to see people safe, happy and affluent - we just have different ideas about how to achieve that :-)

It has a silly name.

evelknievel Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > We weren't really discussing the current economic > situation were we? We were discussing the Police. > But anyway this seems to have turned into a party > political broadcast on behalf of two equally > untrustable rabbles so I'm out. So am I. I have sad my bit. Back to the police. If they want the public to report crime and help tem it might bea good idea to actually sow an iota of interest and activity wenever crimes ARE rported.

evelknievel Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I soooo don't want to get into this discussion but > I would say that any PM whose view is that there > is no such thing as Society is very unlikely to > leave a healthy social legacy. And I think that > has been borne out. > > If you hang around long enough most political > ideologies are tried, and most, if not all, fall > down somehow. You can't pursue a brutalist > economic ideal and not expect humanity to suffer > in the long run. But, you also have to be able to > compete in a Global context, the world being what > it is now. Somewhere betwixt the two - > theoretically - is Nirvana. But of course Nirvana > doesn't exist. > > I'd stand in Lenk's corner though if it came down > to it, the extreme ideological position that > you're working in from is simply more humane. Kill > or be killed, me me me, is all very well until > you're the only one left. Then what? > > That's a rhetorical question - like I said, I sooo > don't want to get involved. D'oh! You and Lenk clearly don't appreciate the meaning of the individual and society quotation. It is INFINITELY more humane and person-centred than the notion that individuals should be servants and slaves to systems rather than systems being created to serve individuals. It is a statement that values human freedom an the right to life,achievement and happiness, rather than seeing humans as being livestock for Big State to control and feast off, a state owned assets to be gulled into docility and dependence and then exploited. If you value individuals and their rights and happiness, soiety takes care of itself. Same principle as look after the pennies and the pounds will look ater themselves. Of course Thacher's ideas were unpopular with some groups who wee suddenly deprived of their 'right' to be lifted and laid by the state, paid for by others and who suddenly realised they migh have to contribute rather than be carrid. Revolutions are rarely effected without a bit of sound and fury. Why blame Thatcher for the fact that some groups resorted to violence whe they realied the gravy train was coming to an end? Isn't abhorrence of violence and crime wat this thread started about? Now we are championing thoseinvolved.

lenk Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > If we hadn't spent the last thirty years watching > the governments of just about every major > industrialised nation in the world pursuing > economic policies that are Thatcherite in all but > name, considerably fewer of us might have spent > last Christmas peering into the economic abyss in > the first place. > > There might also have been fewer people going into > politics, not out of any sense of public duty, but > as a means to a non-executive directorship at an > arms manufacturer, or as a sideline to their > career as a property developer. People might be > more inclined to think of decent levels of > education, healthcare and public transport as > things which make life more bearable, and which > are therefore worth spending money on, rather than > as simply a source of profit for whichever cowboy > outfit that puts in the lowest tender. For > 'trickle-down economics', read 'trickle-up > morality'. After how many years of Labour government (the one whch abolished boom-and-bust remember? lol) we have seen banking collapse, economic instability, housing bubble burst, significant rises in unemployment, appalling deterioration in education standards to the extent that universities are now having to offer remedial maths and English to students at UNIVERSITY level etc etc etc. In terms of motives for entering parliament? I think you will find, Lenk, that the recent revelations of parliamentary impropriety have rebounded AT LEAST equally on LABOUR politicians. I know many company directors. With the exception of ONE of them (by far the worst) they have had no political involvment or aspiration at all (the one who did was a LABOUR councillor and parliaentary candidate). SOME MPs may become company directors but the vast majority of company directors acquire that status without ever going into politics. Education, healthcare and transport????? Please, Lenk, do me a favour. All are systems (paticularly education) which have been decimated by socialist policies. And let's look at what else we have seen over the last fifteen/twenty years. The total, irredeemable collapse and descent into economic turmoil of just about every nation actually running an extreme socialist or communist model in what must be the saddest global economic experiment ever attempted. THAT truly was a decision to let MANY generations and entire blocs of nations "rot on a point of ideology." Instead of considering the possibility that the current mess migh have been contributed to or created by 12 years of Labour government (which inherited a comparatively stable economic situation) Lenk seems to prefer to simply rewind time to the era of his favourite hate figure and blame it all on "THATCHER"!!!!! Whatever the causes, absolving those in the present of responsibility by jumping in a time machine back to the 1980s and demonising somone then isn't going to help at all. This type of Thatcher bashing is pointless, default behaviour for those who won't take responsibility for their own circumstances and want an arch-villain to blame all the ills of the world on. It is the politics of envy and as long as people focus bitterness and hatred on others the will make no change in the hear and now.

And there has been no civil unrest during Labour governments? Where have you been Eliza.D? Anti-war protests? Riots in British cities due to racial/religious tension? Anti-capitalist demos and riots with monotonous regularity by groups who have chosen to disenfranchise themselves (crusties, "professional" protestors etc) whilst the capitalist system they choose to attack continues notwithstanding to sustain the social and capital infrastructure that allows their protests even to happen? Take it you weren't listening to the news on MayDay for the last however many (Labour governed) years?

And letting "an entire generation rot"?????? Grow up!!!!! Are you actually implying that everyone from the Thatcher generation (if there is such a thing) has rotted or gone bad? Absurd! Pathetic!

lenk Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > The thing is, those who moan about 'heathen petty > criminals', single mothers, gangs of feral kids, > and the under-educated/uneducated (non) working > classes, never seem to consider that there might > be some connection between the rise of the > terminally feckless and the decision by Thatcher's > government to let an entire generation essentially > rot on a point of ideology. > > All these 'heathen petty criminals'/single > mothers/feral kids/thick proles who are now the > focus of so much hatred are the sons and daughters > of the people she put out of work; people who > measured themselves by what they did for a living, > who were abruptly told they had little or no > further value to society (which didn't exist, > remember), and who consequently, in many cases, > didn't pass on any sense of social responsibility > to their kids. After all, most of them had grown > up seeing their parents or grandparents do little > else other than get pissed and sign on, so it > wasn't as if there was anything to aspire to. > > And now everyone's about to vote Tory again as > they seem to have forgotten all about this. > > There's lovely. Utter claptrap! Imagine a government having the gall to insist on individual responsibility? Imagine a government having the gall to suggest that people had the responsibility and personal resources to create a life and future for themselves? Imagine a government having the gall to offer people a chance to create their own wealth and opportunity and then have the right to hold on to most of it without being taxed to the f***ing hilt? Imagine a government having the gall to say it is NOT ok to sit on your bum sponging off the state if you have other options? Imagine a government having the gall to insist that industries that are not profitable or competitive should not be propped up by the state, effectively creating simply another class of people vicariously dependent upon the government? I think if you want to look at historic political reasons for the current moral malaise, you might care to look at the educational and social policies that have introduced notions of moral relativism and the notion that people are ENTITLED to whatever they want without having to lift a finger to actually make it happen. That certainly didn't come from the Tories! Step forward socialist government - take a bow. URL below is interesting. Shows how again socialist politicians are screwing up the economy with interventionist approaches and hence undermining, AGAIN, the opportunities that people should be able to access to improve their lot. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/5627352/Government-debt-Thatll-be-2.2-trillion-please.html Bashing Margaret Thatcher is a sorry, tired, childish pursuit and has little if anything to do with the state we are in in terms of crime and social responsibility.

SimonM Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > For the record you don't get preached at in any > way whatsoever at the "Bread of Life" cafe. It is > cheap and cheerful, spacious and accessible: sells > coffee in cafetieres and excellent, basic hot > meals. It does not open at weekends though IIRC Rare for ED, Bread of Life cafe also have cards on the tables asking parents with children to be responsible for their offspring's behaviour creating a conducive atmosphere for ALL. And this is in a place where they have high-chairs, toys and a breast-feeding cafe. Goes to show - it IS possible to be child friendly without having rug rats run riot messing up everyone else's day!

And no effective police force can survive without the support of thelocal community it serves. The police ae already despised by certain alienated parts of society and it seems they are quite prepared now to alienate their traditional supporters in middle-class, white, affuent areas. Not wise.

Pugwash Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > The Dulwich Safer Neighbourhood Team are focusing > on Barry Road at the moment as there have been a > number of 'incidents' > Sgt. Jackson and his team would be interested in > hearing of any crime committed in East Dulwich no > matter how minor it seems. Minor crimes when seen > in a wider context can sometimes point to a much > bigger picture. All the Dulwich Safer > Neighbourhood Police Teams give a public report at > the Dulwich Community Council and welcome feedback > from local residents. I think our police team are > brilliant, and very responsive to local residents > concerns. They hold regular Police Meetings with > residents and it is the local people who determine > the priorities that they wish the police to > follow. Unless you report an incident, the Police > are unlikely to be able to act. I am sorry but my experience has been very different from this. I have over the last few years reported the theft of a digital camera from a residential address and pointed out the distinct possibility that the thief was a paid cleaner/carer visiting the building at the time. If so, this person might well have been involved in a whole pattern of thefts and I thought that was well worth looking at (I mean a carer has access to the valuables of many vulnerable people). Level of interest from ED Police Station clerk? ZERO!!!! Have a crime number and go away. I have also reported to ED police station the disappearance of two successive passports for me that were delivered by courier to the address I lived at within a couple of weeks of eachother (one being a replacement for the first one that went missing). Level of interest from ED police? ZERO!!!! Have a crime number and go away. Since theft of passports could be tip of iceberg of people involved in identity theft, fraud, people smuggling etc, (a police contact from another jurisdiction told me they have a black market value of around ?1000) I think the latter incident in particular might have raised a few eyebrows. Not a bit of it! I have a close friend who went to ED police station as part of a request for a CRB check as he was setting up a company overseas. The behaviour of the officer on the desk was so atrocious, threatening and offensive that he made a formal complaint. I understand that the senior officer investigating the complaint found the accused officer's behaviour (recorded on CCTV of course) shocking! I admit there have been a couple of occasions where I have seen the police respond swiftly and well to incidents around ED but the negative experiences I am aware of and have been personally involved in far outweigh the positive. I am all for the IDEA of a police force, appropriately responsive, trained, respectful, resourced and disciplined. Unfortunately reality, in my experience, often falls light-years short of that.

I popped in this morning. Seems quite nice. Range of pastries, anti-pastas, breads, olives etc. The staff seemed pleasant and there is a small seating area out the back in the 'garden'. I will actually buy something next time and I hope they do well.

Stance is the risk of a kniofe in the throat I am afraid.

TonyQuinn Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I am bloody furious to hear about your elderly > neighbour and furious about people constantly > trying to calm people down with damn bloody > statistics. One mugging of an elderly person is > too much. One shooting on the street is too much. > One gang fight is too much. The police are aware > Barry Road is a hot spot for crime. Let's help > them in calming things down. Report incidents. > Call them up. Do not accept the crap any more. If you are "furious" about people trying to calm people down with statistics, I wonder if it is any more productive inflaming people's sense of apprehension by claiming we are in the midle of a tidal wave of crime. OF COURSE any crime of violence is repugnant but the OP in this thread seemed to query whether recent incidents repreent a sudden upswing in crime. I am suggesting it doesn't. Sorry if you would rather we were discussing a different subject.

It looks like it is actually open 23 hours and 59 minutes a day. Wonder what they do when it is closed for a minute? I think we should be told.

Brendan Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I?ll go out on a limb here and suggest that you > buy the house that you prefer. If position means > that much perhaps you should consider sleeping > rough in St James Park. It?s a bit fresh in winter > but you can?t beat it for location. Well said. Mind you, the neighbours are a bit dodgy (foreigners, I believe! German and Greek!)

I mean, why not just find a house in a nice road, that suits your needs and buy the damn thing. If you are looking at street-name kudos or status first there is something very wrong. And just in case anyone says "maybe they are looking at it as an investment - hence kudos being important", investments are all about where value goes from where you start, NOT absolute value. And 'fashions' can change. Remember Lady Bracknell vowing it would be possible to change which side of a certain London street was the "fashionable side"?

It wasn't the financial aspect that was 'unpopular' with me, AnnaJ, it was the sheer stupidity of the question. Cross my heart and hope to die, I didn't even recognise either of the two roads in question. Now that I know there is a pompous snob element to the question as well, it makes me despise the OP even more. Siomcc, keep on keeping up with the Jones's, dahling. It REALLY IS all about appearances (if you want a materialistic and vacuous life!)

What I think is this.....we are looking at a random cluster. It is absolutely inevitable that, from time to time, a number of incidents will occur within a short period of eachother simply through random distribution. It does NOT mean there is a pattern developing. Secondly, since we are all such a bunch of gossips, we are currently chattering and thinking about little other than these matters and everyone is suddenly mentally "filtering" for evidence of criminal activity. Hence, the glut of threads about muggings, sirens wailing, people running down streets, police car speeding around etc. I doubt there is actually any meaningful statistical significance to the events we have discussed here recently. Also, Olive, where would you move to to be happier? I think you will likely find that EVERYWHERE in London is much the same, and most often worse, than ED.