Domitianus

Lizziedjango Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Domitianus > > Initially you said the nappy was 'soiled', and now > you say it was"soiled, smelly nappy ..... the > sight of runny poo exposed for all to see, the > delicate aroma of toddler turd drifting to your > nostrils and mingling with the subtle flavours of > your food and drink." > > Are you sure you're not exaggerating a little > bit? > > Shame you didn't say anything to the mother > though. I wonder what she would have said to you > if you had had words with her.>:D< You are mistaken in your interpretation of my words. Firstly, it seems that people expect that I should have given a full, detailed, legally admissible statement in the first instance of my posting. I do apologise that I didn't anticipate the cross-examination that I would face. Secondly, I think it goes without saying that a soiled nappy is likely to be a smelly one. If you can find me a toddler whose s**t doesn't stink please bring him/her to me as we shall have found the Chosen One! My more detailed description of the experience of proximity to child poo was not meant to reflect my own experience but was intended to spell out the potential situations that might emerge if we happily sit back and approve of bars and restaurants being turned into naappy changing facilities. Your comment about me speaking to the mother is, I assume. offered in jest and I chuckle appropriately :-)

Two points. First of all for those who don't bother actually reading a fullthread,I DID SPEAK TO THE WOMAN IN QUESTION!!!!! And I told her that I thought it was unacceptable and pointed out child changing facilities. For those who think this is acceptable and that there is nothing wrong with changing a nappy in a food service place, let me offer this following scenario. You are sitting quietly enjoying a coffee, glass of wine, bite to eat or whatever. At a table near you a small child's soiled, smelly nappy is removed, the sight of runny poo exposed for all to see, the delicate aroma of toddler turd drifting to your nostrils and mingling with the subtle flavours of your food and drink. If you don't find that unpleasant - GO SEE A DOCTOR!!!! Ninety-nine per cent of the human population find the notion of eating and drinking in comfort incompatible with the sight and smell of human excrement. There is also the hygiene issue that changing a nappy can involve accidental spills, stains etc that cannot always be properly noticed or cleared up. WHy do you think many food service establishments have a sign stating that for hygiene reasons dogs aren't allowed? If you are a member of the other one per cent, can I suggest you NEVER give dinner parties or become involved in the catering industry. It is for this very reason that many places (such as this establishment) provide private child changing facilities so that children can be changed in a sanitary way with appropriate privacy. If you think there is nothing wrong with changing a baby's nappy, let me suggest this - next time I am in a public place and fancy a pee I won't bother going to the toilet. I will just take the old lad out, pee in a bottle under the table and dispose of it later. After all, what is wrong with the sight of a man's bits - we've all seen them. And I believe fresh urine is actually usually a pretty sterile fluid. Why should anyone get uptight about it? Can those posters who think it okay to change a baby's nappy in a food service environment please give the rest of us a concrete assurance that they have no involvment in the catering, hospitality or food selling or preparation industries in East Dulwich? I think many of us would be comforted by the fact.

*Bob* Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Remember that Dom only remembered distinctly > mentioning something to the woman after distinctly > not remembering to mention it in the OP. AQre you trying to imply something Bob?

Just to reiterate folks. I did raise the matter with the mother in question, pointed out that there were changing facilities right in front of her and pointed out that other people do eat in the establishment. The nature of my complaint still didn't quite seem to penetrate and the best I got was an "Oh, sorry" as if I had just objected to her brand of buggy or her favourite colour and was some poor chap in need of patronising. In defence of management, the part of the establishment where this happened was out of sight of the bar area and I don't believe staff or management noticed it, otherwise I am sure discrete words would have been spoken. I, however, was in the same area and certainly did notice and was quite repelled by what other posters here have rightly described as the utter inconsideration and arrogance of this woman in appearing to think she had the right to do whatever she pleased with her child without thought for others. If the woman had appeared stressed or harassed or in a state of urgency I might feel some sympathy but the whole thing was done in such a casual manner by someone who appeared quite leisurely in her manner and mood. As I say, facilities were available just a matter of feet away. I like the place in question and shall certainly return and just hope that this type of thing does not recur there or anywhere else.

I can accept a revolver not having a magazine (self-evident) but a Kalashnikov not having a barrel? WHat does the bullet go along then?

As I observed, this was an establishment which has child changing facilities that would have been in full view of the mother in question. Furthermore, as it was not busy there would have been no problem enquiring of the staff whether they had facilities, even if the mother had not been aware of them. Furthermore, the ladies toilets (which used to be unisex so I know what it is like) is extremely spacious and offers ample space for nappy changing even if the specific child-changing facilities had been occupied (which they weren't). No. As far as I am concerned this was just an example of utter lack of thought for others and I am glad I spoke my mind. From what I could see at a distance (and I didn't want to get too close) we were definitely talking about a number 2. I had already sat with considerable frustration as this mother and her friend had allowed their children to run rumpus around the place, knocking things over and screaming and shouting. I said nothing. But changing a nappy on a fabric covered sofa was just too much and I expressed my feelings with what I thought was heroic courtesy and understatement.

I can assure you that I did make my feelings known to the mother in question who just uttered a vague "Oh, sorry" as if she didn't quite understand what all the fuss was about. I pointed out that people eat in the place and there was little point in my saying more if the matter wasn't evident enough to her. I don't want to mention the specific establishment as the part of the bar in question was quite quiet at that time and is not in view of the staff at the bar unless they go round to attend to customers there. I am sure management would have said something had they observed this. The irksome thing is that the place IS 'child friendly' and has gone to the bother of BEING 'child friendly' by providing changing facilities which this mother chose to ignore. It just stunned me to see this, hence my reappearance on EDF after a lengthy absence.

Thank you. Whatever one's views about children in public, breast-feeding etc, this seems to be a step too far.

At the risk of opening up an old debate about children in public places, I feel the need, nonetheless, to express my indignation about what I witnessed today in a well-known local wine bar. A mother with a toddler happily sat at her table and changed her child's soiled nappy in full view. This was the whole hog, removing soiled nappy, wiping child's bottom and replacing with fresh nappy. I just found this utterly unacceptable. It is unhygienic behaviour in a place serving food, is an extremely unpleasant thing for other patrons to have to see and potentially smell when they are dining and - most remarkable of all - this was done within line of sight of the establishment's clearly marked and well-equipped childrens' changing facilities which were unoccupied at the time. Am I alone in finding this utterly unacceptable and inconsiderate behaviour?

*Bob* Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Domitianus Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > Children in France, Italy, Greece etc simply > are > > not allowed to carry on in the manner typical > of > > these ED children. If children in ED behaved > in > > the manner of our continental neighbours and > their > > parents took responsibility for them in the > same > > manner I am sure no-one would have any of the > > concerns mentioned here. > > This is the biggest dollop of grade-A prime > made-up horseshit I've heard on here for some > time. Nice one! Thanks Bob, I will take that as a compliment. Let's not be too keen on modelling ourselves on foreign norms, however, otherwise we would have to introduce bull-fighting, misogny, homophobia, alcoholism etc into the wonderful British way of life.

*Bob* Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > RichTea Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > This is the kind of thread you would never see > in > > France, Spain, Italy or Greece. Kids are as > much > > a part of life as having a drink with your > mates. > > I am glad to have found this forum though, as > > replying to idiotic posts can be great fun. > > A fine posting. > > in the matter of How You Think Others Treat You - > be they evil mothers with prams or otherwise - > anyone who seems to think they're being treated > badly by others perhaps ought to examine their own > behaviour first. You generally tend to get what > you deserve. Children in France, Italy, Greece etc simply are not allowed to carry on in the manner typical of these ED children. If children in ED behaved in the manner of our continental neighbours and their parents took responsibility for them in the same manner I am sure no-one would have any of the concerns mentioned here.

Cassius Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Matt - times have moved on and I find the more > that one gets uptight about > children/parents/prams/whatever, the more you will > find things about them that you find annoying. > Best to just chill out and be glad that you live > in an area that is tolerant and safe enough to > have a mixture of people. In my dreams I'd love > to find a completely child free beer garden, where > the sun shines all day and chilled out music is > playing...... perhaps 'Carlsberg' could help! Cassius, perhaps you can explain how one can chill out when a couple of noisy brats are running back and forward in Green & Blue, screeching at the top of their voices a few feet away from you in that 'parrot-house' manner that is generated only by children while their hopelessly incompetent and inconsiderate parents sit chatting to themselves over a glass of wine, blithely unconcerned by the effect their rampant progeny are having on other customers who simply want a few minutes of relaxation. If my nephew (5 yoa) behaved in that manner he would be brought into line very promptly. (I am just waiting for the responses who will state that my poor nephew is clearly emotionally abused by having his natural spontaneity crushed!)

Spangles30 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > 'poncing about in the park'? I take it you are > referring to 'power pramming' Peckhamgatecrasher?! > Yes it does look very poncey. It doesn't even > WORK. The exercises are so slow and daft. But they are ever so POOOWWERRRFFFUULLLLL!!!!

I think you will find, Matt, that this is an old theme that has been discussed here many times before and the camps are already thoroughly polarised. I think I was the first person to raise the issue about a year ago and am still picking dagers out of my back. For the record, I am largely with you on this one and I am also sure that you do not "hate" children (although this is the popular criticism levelled at anyone who suggests children should perhaps be subject to a modicum of control when in public places). I think the issue is boundaries and the fact that many of these Yummy Mummies expect absolute 100% tolerance of their children's right to run riot, scream, shout, bang cutlery etc ANYWHERE THEY PLEASE with no consideration for others. In return, unfortunately, many of the YMs show absolutely no tolerance or respect for those who might find the aforementioned behaviour disturbing. It's about a bit of give and take and, to my mind, in ED a great majority of the YMs take everything they can and give sweet b***er all!

As I say, LB, I don't know the chap in question and am sure he has a very positive side. All I can say is that the appearance this matter gave to customers (not just me) was not very favourable and caused some embarrassment. Without feedback from customers you can't improve as I am sure you will. I like G&B but just think this sort of thing needs to be managed a little more discretely. I will certainly be back.

If an establishment had a basement for flogging I think that ould be the bigest attraction for the paying customers!

I love Green and Blue. I think it is great and am really glad it has re-opened. I am afraid, however, the biggest problem I have about the place is the owner/manager(?) with the long hair and the big whiskers. On a number of occasions I have seen him have sit down disciplinarians, pep-talks, team-meetings with his staff right in the middle of the bar. His manner to his staff comes across as bullying, intimidating and highly dis-respectful (he may be a real sweetheart, but that doesn't come across) but the biggest issue is the gross embarrassment it causes to paying customers who are trying to enjoy something to eat or drink while all this is going on volubly a few seats away. On three separate occasions I have seen customers glance at other customers in disbelief and on two occasions actually get up and move their table (the owner appeared oblivious to this). Has anyone else had a similar experience in G&B? It is just not on IMO.

I was in a Virgin Active club today and was told the usual guest fee is ?20. I am afraid that in this over-priced, God-forsaken, extortionate s**thole that people glorify as one of the greatest cities in the world, ?8 is nothing.

Put me down for a dozen....and a large bottle of whatever you are on!

The Dungeon Bar in Aberdeen University students union (the old Union - the one that was around in 1987). It had vaulted ceilings replete with the most incredible 2001AD murals (some you could only see properly when flat on your back. Great beers, copper topped tables for humping and a fantastic juke-box. I mean it was the first time I ever heard Bowie's Port of Amsterdam! Other great bars are Fibber Magees in Robinson's in Belfast, the Crawfordsburn Inn, Saltwater Brig on the Ards Penninsula. Anywhere, as has already been mentioned, that has a real fire is straight onto the A ist in my opinion. Stop me before I get too sentimental.

I had a beard once but I cut it off. Damn thing grew straight back. Talk about stubborn!

I first went to bed with a 32 year old woman when I was fourteen and I have appeared in four porn movies. And I don't give a f**k!!! P.S. When I was about 7 or 8 I got caught shoplifting penny Olympic bars from a newsagents. Of this, I am deeply ashamed!

I, however, have NOT and that makes me much more variable than you!

I used to go there almost every Sunday for the lamb roast. Last few times, however, there has been a definite reduction in portion size (fewer varieties of veg etc) and they also very unwisely removed the lamb from the roast menu. Big shame. Sunday lunch there used to be scrummy.

I haven't gone through every post on this thread so maybe it has al;ready been mentioned but....Gingerbread? The charity for lone-parent families? Runs groups for lone-parents. At least it did in NI about sixteen years ago when I worked for it.