BlueOne

Edited due to repetition of facts from earlier post!

Oh yes, those beyond reproach English roses. RIP Diana Mosley.

Interesting that there are so many more men weighing in with opinions on the 'real women' thread than women prescribing 'real men' traits on here! Does this mean that men are way more judgemental of women than women are of men? Or is it just 'real (insert gender' thread fatigue?

Totally agree with the principle and the sentiments, but have found Lumley's performance throughout embarassingly grandiose. Government minister publicly deferring to celebrity - cringeworthy. Still, it seems to have worked so I guess I am in no position to criticise, after all I've never had a hand in changing government policy.

Thanks! I would love to see something built into the primary school curriculum that would cover this - although as an ex primary school teacher I know they do try on a day to day basis. I'm not talking fish knives and 'loo' vs toilet, just the everyday stuff that has been forgotten or never learned by a lot of people today.

I hope this doesn't bring the parent fraternity down on my head, and I will state in my defense that I love kids. I am a devoted aunt and godmother, and for the majority of my career I have worked with children and teenagers. I am not a child hater..BUT please bear with me.. I think It's all down to training. You can't observe social conventions if you don't know what they are, and while I know there are plenty of conscientious parents who DO instill basic courtesy and manners in their children (my friends and siblings included), sadly there are a hell of a lot who don't. When I was a kid my Mum would constantly coach me: "stand back out of those peoples way", "wait your turn", "say thank you", "don't push" "give that old man your seat, you are only paying half fare". I was by no means a mealy mouthed 'seen and not heard' kind of kid. I was encouraged to have my own opinions, be adventurous, accept people who were different to me etc etc, but I was also very aware of my place, as a child in the pecking order and well aware of what was acceptable. Obviously as a normal kid I didn't always observe it, but I knew what was socially acceptable behaviour. And I still do. If I travel to another country, I always research the social conventions and what faux pas to avoid, but I think many parents today fail to make this clear to their own children in their own culture. It's no surprise that they grow up not observing the niceties that make life a bit easier for everyone. We are now living with a couple of generations of people who have grown up thinking THEY are number one in the pecking order, deamnd respect without giving it, and who are focussed on their own needs and achievements, without an awareness that they form part of a larger community. And just to finish, I know many lovely children, teenagers and adults who DO know how to conduct themselves, but without exception, this has been instilled in them by their parents. It doesn't necessarily come as a default feature.

I heard the police ststion is being turned into an outpost of Harrods

I regret the loss of all the lovely social courtesies and moan about it all the time, but would I want to go back to the fifties? Punishment for sexual freedom in the form of backstreet abortions or shotgum marriages, unequal pay for equal work, firmly entrenched class system with all the restricted social and educational opportunities this entailed, casual racism and sexism...mmmm. Sad as I am at the diminishment of mutual respect and consideration for fellow Londoners, I know I'd still prefer to be living now.

I agree with Brum and Daizie to some extent - mainly where kids are involved. When I was younger and (only slightly) less foolish, I would put up with all sorts of shenanigans from partners that I would never tolerate from a friend. These days, I am much less tolerant of crap behaviour just because I am in a relationship that I am trying to 'make work'. So simple but it's made me much happier. I don't have kids though,and I know that it's a whole different story when you've created new people whose needs have to be taken into consideration.

I hate to be the one to break it to you Tony, but I suspect, based on what I've seen of your 'special' brand of anachronistic chauvanism, not to mention your sparkling 'wit', that you have probably been given a very wide berth over the years by any women with a decent sense of humour. Mind you, you have given us so much insight into your domestic arrangements that I can't imagine how your various "Jamaican Lady Friends" could put up with you WITHOUT a healthy sense of humour. mwah mwah XX

Oh Brendan - so succinct, so true I am so glad I went to a girls school and took it for granted that female personalities were as varied as as the number of females on the planet. From the class clown, to the sporty ones, the political activists, the scientific geeks and the arty farties, and everything else in between, we never saw ourselves defined in relation to boys. It was quite a shock to get out into world and be expected to pull my head in for fear of being judged as a certain 'type' of woman, and it still amazes me to hear limiting stereotyped crap like: "Women aren't funny"! On the negative side, as a schoolgirl I had no idea that boys could be sensitive or good at English, let alone know how to speak to one! Still don't regret it though, as I managed to pick it up the art of flirting pretty quickly once I got to uni! Another thing - why over the last few years am I constantly being told I love shoes above all else?

Totally agree with Cassius, and won't let fear curtail my life, but I still live a bit of a walk from the night bus to be fair.

It may not be wise to do so, but unfortunately if you don't have anyone to come and walk you home and you can't afford a cab (and believe me there are many, many women in this category) sometimes you literally have no choice but to walk alone at night.

TLS?

Here's the Peeping |Tom link http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?5,227331,227708#msg-227708