BlueOne

Edited due to repetition of facts from earlier post!

Oh yes, those beyond reproach English roses. RIP Diana Mosley.

Interesting that there are so many more men weighing in with opinions on the 'real women' thread than women prescribing 'real men' traits on here! Does this mean that men are way more judgemental of women than women are of men? Or is it just 'real (insert gender' thread fatigue?

Totally agree with the principle and the sentiments, but have found Lumley's performance throughout embarassingly grandiose. Government minister publicly deferring to celebrity - cringeworthy. Still, it seems to have worked so I guess I am in no position to criticise, after all I've never had a hand in changing government policy.

Thanks! I would love to see something built into the primary school curriculum that would cover this - although as an ex primary school teacher I know they do try on a day to day basis. I'm not talking fish knives and 'loo' vs toilet, just the everyday stuff that has been forgotten or never learned by a lot of people today.

I hope this doesn't bring the parent fraternity down on my head, and I will state in my defense that I love kids. I am a devoted aunt and godmother, and for the majority of my career I have worked with children and teenagers. I am not a child hater..BUT please bear with me.. I think It's all down to training. You can't observe social conventions if you don't know what they are, and while I know there are plenty of conscientious parents who DO instill basic courtesy and manners in their children (my friends and siblings included), sadly there are a hell of a lot who don't. When I was a kid my Mum would constantly coach me: "stand back out of those peoples way", "wait your turn", "say thank you", "don't push" "give that old man your seat, you are only paying half fare". I was by no means a mealy mouthed 'seen and not heard' kind of kid. I was encouraged to have my own opinions, be adventurous, accept people who were different to me etc etc, but I was also very aware of my place, as a child in the pecking order and well aware of what was acceptable. Obviously as a normal kid I didn't always observe it, but I knew what was socially acceptable behaviour. And I still do. If I travel to another country, I always research the social conventions and what faux pas to avoid, but I think many parents today fail to make this clear to their own children in their own culture. It's no surprise that they grow up not observing the niceties that make life a bit easier for everyone. We are now living with a couple of generations of people who have grown up thinking THEY are number one in the pecking order, deamnd respect without giving it, and who are focussed on their own needs and achievements, without an awareness that they form part of a larger community. And just to finish, I know many lovely children, teenagers and adults who DO know how to conduct themselves, but without exception, this has been instilled in them by their parents. It doesn't necessarily come as a default feature.

I heard the police ststion is being turned into an outpost of Harrods

I regret the loss of all the lovely social courtesies and moan about it all the time, but would I want to go back to the fifties? Punishment for sexual freedom in the form of backstreet abortions or shotgum marriages, unequal pay for equal work, firmly entrenched class system with all the restricted social and educational opportunities this entailed, casual racism and sexism...mmmm. Sad as I am at the diminishment of mutual respect and consideration for fellow Londoners, I know I'd still prefer to be living now.

I agree with Brum and Daizie to some extent - mainly where kids are involved. When I was younger and (only slightly) less foolish, I would put up with all sorts of shenanigans from partners that I would never tolerate from a friend. These days, I am much less tolerant of crap behaviour just because I am in a relationship that I am trying to 'make work'. So simple but it's made me much happier. I don't have kids though,and I know that it's a whole different story when you've created new people whose needs have to be taken into consideration.

I hate to be the one to break it to you Tony, but I suspect, based on what I've seen of your 'special' brand of anachronistic chauvanism, not to mention your sparkling 'wit', that you have probably been given a very wide berth over the years by any women with a decent sense of humour. Mind you, you have given us so much insight into your domestic arrangements that I can't imagine how your various "Jamaican Lady Friends" could put up with you WITHOUT a healthy sense of humour. mwah mwah XX

Oh Brendan - so succinct, so true I am so glad I went to a girls school and took it for granted that female personalities were as varied as as the number of females on the planet. From the class clown, to the sporty ones, the political activists, the scientific geeks and the arty farties, and everything else in between, we never saw ourselves defined in relation to boys. It was quite a shock to get out into world and be expected to pull my head in for fear of being judged as a certain 'type' of woman, and it still amazes me to hear limiting stereotyped crap like: "Women aren't funny"! On the negative side, as a schoolgirl I had no idea that boys could be sensitive or good at English, let alone know how to speak to one! Still don't regret it though, as I managed to pick it up the art of flirting pretty quickly once I got to uni! Another thing - why over the last few years am I constantly being told I love shoes above all else?

Totally agree with Cassius, and won't let fear curtail my life, but I still live a bit of a walk from the night bus to be fair.

It may not be wise to do so, but unfortunately if you don't have anyone to come and walk you home and you can't afford a cab (and believe me there are many, many women in this category) sometimes you literally have no choice but to walk alone at night.

TLS?

Here's the Peeping |Tom link http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?5,227331,227708#msg-227708

I wonder if this is the same guy discussed in the 'Peeping Tom' thread?

I have worked in bars where if your till was down at the end of the night, the difference was taken out of your pay! I am not sure whether the dodgy practice of paying staff in cash at the end of the night still goes on, but I am always mindful of this when given too much change. I guess some might see it as a nice bonus, but I reckon I don't need the fiver as much as the poor b*stard working all night serving pissed up punters!

They got in between 6 and 6.30 which was really scary! My upstairs neighbour left at 6pm and my flat had a door on it. I got home at 6.30 pm and it was smashed to smithereens. I've never been burgled so didn't know at the time that 999 was not the right number to ring, so I dialled 999 and sat there for three hours on my own with my coat on and the door dangling waiting for the police to arrive, hoping the intruders weren't going to swing back past my door if they were still at work upstairs. I think if I had been less flustered and shaken, and more clued up as to which number to ring, I might have had someone round a bit sooner. They were lovely though - very concerned and kind, but equally, wearied of the whole thing and pretty much resigned to the fact that I wouldn't be getting anything back. They had come from one burglary and heading over to deal with another.

When my place got done last month, my door was Chubbed and my neighbour's wasn't. My door was completely smashed off its frame, whereas hers pretty much just swung open! The violence of that was the scariest part about it. Not sure what the moral of the story is - we both got done, but my repair bill was a shocker, while hers was a locksmith job. I guess it just shows how determined they were going to get in Chubb or not

Just realised my last thread was poorly constructed and ambiguous, so before i get lynched, my view IS that breastfeeding is the norma and every woman's right! I am just defending the right of people not to share that view!

Goodness. I think you have totally misunderstood pretty much everything I have posted. Let me spell it out. I am suggesting that perhaps an elderly man, or someone from a culture where breastfeeding is not considered the norm and every woman's right (my view), may not be comfortable with public breastfeeding.This is what I mean by someone who may have a different 'world view', or set of social norms. I still believe they have the right to remain living in the area!

Oh dearie me. Here we go again. "We cannot accomodate views that are not strictly in accordance with our own. if you don't like it, please leave the vicinity". For the record, non-middle class, non-family individuals have as much right as you to live in East Dulwich, and to live their lives with a world view which may vastly differ from your own.

Good point, but I think you will find there are plenty of people who feel very uncomfortable with being confronted with images of half naked women in crappy newspapers, 'upmarket' magazines, billboards, sides of vans etc etc!

I have always been an ardent feminist and totally agree with the fact that breastfeeding is a natural and wonderful thing, but you can't ignore the fact that we live in a society of cultural backgrounds,social attitudes, and ages. While it's easy for us to say: "This is natural and this is our right", there will be people who are very uncomfortable with seeing a woman breastfeeding in public. I am totally fine with it, but my 78 year old Dad would be extremely embarassed, especially if he was in the company of women - his daughters for example. This would obviously annoy me, but in his reality it's just not right. I guess what I am trying to say is, we are all are entitled to our own views and to live our lives in accordance with this view, but please don't dismiss others rights to their own sensibilities, however much they may clash with your own.

Oh come on people. I think the OP was completeley reasonable. No one wants to eat in the presence of human bodily waste, irrespective of the age of the individual who produced it. To try and imply that the OP is in any way in the wrong about this is just silly. Also - why the repeated queries as to whether or not he/she said antyhing? Despite the fact that the OP has repeatedly said they *did* address it with the mother, why the hell should they have to? What the woman did was antisocial in the first place and shouldn't have happened. Why is the onus being put on the perefctly innocent member of the public, spending good money to eat out, to confront this woman and further ruin their meal with an unwanted confronttation?