indiepanda

Dunno. Is he still single?

follow this thread.... http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?9,204917

If anyone is interested, this is what the newhumanist magazine had to say after trying the Alpha course. http://newhumanist.org.uk/1000

Even though I am single, my motivation when I go is making friends... not that I'd rule out dating someone I met there, but it's certainly not why I go.

Bizzy Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Indiepanda > > The whole point of *lecturing* to others about > Christianity is to spread the word, there is > nothing smug about it, but there is a common > notion where people think Christians feel they are > above others. Where it comes from, I don't know, > hence Huguenot said it. To me the word "lecturing" in itself means talking down to someone which by definition makes someone smug. The Christian friends I have don't go around lecturing others on God, they just let their lives be the example, and would only share their beliefs if I expressed an interest. > And that's why I have no interest in being part of > a religion. It's hard to find any that aren't more > interested in serving themselves - I think they > believe when Jesus said "love thy neighbour" that > there was a limit on "neighbour" to people who > follow the same religion. > > Where is your evidence to back this up? You've > made quite an assumption there. Hmm, you're assuming I've made an assumption rather than experiencing it aren't you? Ok, I am probably overstating it because I don't know people from every religious background and my experiences growing up put me off investigating too much further. However, I grew up next door to Jehovah's Witnesses, and they really looked after each other, but they were could be pretty unreliable friends when it came to people who weren't part of their religion. I could have plans with the daughter of the family who was the same age as me and we were very close friends, but if she was invited to something social by a Jehovah's Witness after our plans were made, she was expected to drop me like a stone. I don't think even she could see the inconsistency between the comments she made to me about the importance of being reliable, and the way I took second place to her anyone with the same faith as her. And one of my next door neighbours children converted and she hardly ever speaks to her mother now because she refused to convert too. Come to that, when I went to the Catholic church regularly, we were always praying for people of the parish who were sick - not sick people in general even though there were undoubtedly plenty of very good people who were very sick who didn't happen to be religious. My uncle is a Catholic priest, not in good health now, but used to do plenty of very good things, but it was for people of the parish, not society at large. And plenty of churches spend time raising funds to look after the church itself rather than people who really need the money - they don't really need the fancy buildings, it's just the trappings of religion. To me, by definition, as soon as you identify yourself as part of a group, you exclude others, and it's that exclusiveness I don't like - doesn't seem consistent with Jesus' actions which were generally not as exclusive or judgemental as some churches seem to be. Perhaps it would make a difference if I felt any religion represented my views, might be happy to be part of that group. But though some aren't too far off, there aren't any I feel really match my beliefs, and I prefer not to live a lie by pretending they do.

RosieH Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > It seems to me that there's a little smugness on > both sides of this argument... If the Alpha > Course isn't for you, does it need to be shot down > in flames? > > Or am I being terribly naive: is it actually some > kind of fundamentalist Christianity and goes on to > preach hatred in some form or another? Well, their attitudes towards homosexuality are enough to put me off - not sure if they go as far as hatred, but certainly intolerance. Not all Christian religions are like that - an openly gay friend of mine was a churchwarden for the C of E church in Bath when I was a student there. http://www.galha.org/briefing/alpha.html I wouldn't want to stop anyone believing in God or practicing their religion providing they aren't hurting others in the process, and I agree there are plenty of good people who do good things in the church. However, I don't think that applies to all religious people, and I am not sure that on balance the average Christian necessarily does more for society than the average non Christian. There are certainly plenty of people who seem to embody the belief "love thy neighbour" without being part of a religion.

Bizzy Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Huguenot said it :-S. Try asking him why he/she > thinks all Christians who lecture others why they > stroll around with a smugness. Bizzy, you were the one who told him flat out he was wrong and that what he was experiencing was all about him - I'm asking how you can evidence you are right. Ducking the question by saying I should ask him why he said it is a little childish don't you think? (Huguenot - apols if I've mistakenly called you a man and you aren't).

LegalEagle-ish Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > One more thing - don't judge what Jesus said or > stood for, by the man made churches who claim to > follow him, many of them follow nothing but > themselves. And that's why I have no interest in being part of a religion. It's hard to find any that aren't more interested in serving themselves - I think they believe when Jesus said "love thy neighbour" that there was a limit on "neighbour" to people who follow the same religion. I am unsure as to whether Jesus existed or not, and if he was really the son of god. But I'd rather try to make my own way in the world than follow any one religion's interpretation of it. Religion seems to do more harm than good in my eyes... even if it is just the convenient label one group of people use as an excuse for hating others rather than the teaching of that church. I don't assume I know everything, far from it, but having been raised a Catholic and having a priest in the family I do know a little about religion.

I think I have far too many guilty pleasures to mention... being raised a Catholic I think I am programmed to feel guilty whenever I do anything fun... *removes tongue from cheek* Seriously, the pleasures I have I don't feel guilty about are having a nice bottle of wine over the weekend (might feel guilty if I necked it in one night... or hungover anyway!), burning scented candles and buying myself the occassional bunch of flowers. Really guilty plesures - buying take out and then throwing half away when I have healthy food in the house, spending too much time surfing the internet rather than doing something useful or more fun, buying more than I need.. of lots of things, especially shoes, books, fancy toiletries etc etc.

JoeChuff Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > hi sorry if wording offended, it came from a > newspaper article by Julian Baggini, I just copied > and pasted > > i think it's driving not so much at thriftiness > per se but at the new opportunity for > Guardianistas to impress their friends via the > medium of thrift by tapping into some romantic > notion of austerity or linking cost cutting back > to Guardianista hot buttons - e.g. > "I've cut my Amazon spending in half, after all > it's important to support our local libraries" - > WIN Lol, I am trying to cut down on my amazon habit by using the library more, but I'm not a guardian reader, it's because I keep accumulating more books than I can store, not out of any intention to impress anyone. If I was trying to impress people with my reading I wouldn't buy as many chick lit and crime novels.

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ianr Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Southwark are having a Celebrating Women month in > March. There are even grants available (max. > ?250) for those wanting to run a related > event/activity. > http://www.southwark.gov.uk/DiscoverSouthwark/Even > tsSection/InternationalWomensday/celebratingwomen. > html I've a feeling it's not celebrating miles has in mind...

PeckhamRose Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Being good to people for true real genuine reasons is more useful and makes you feel good. Praying to > ThirdPartyGodSendMoney for other people to do good things is literally a waste of time. We are all we have that we can be > sure about. If there is a God, she'll forgive me for saying it. So true. The number of Catholics I knew - my mum included who would every Sunday march off to church to pray but then do very little to support the local community or others is crazy. If instead of sitting around praying they'd used that time and any other time used purely looking after "the church" rather than people on voluntary work they would have had a much more positive impact on society. (My mum's church contribution for a time, and therefore mine during school vacations was cleaning the church... hardly helping people in need!) Prayer is about as useful as that cosmic ordering nonsense they spout in The Secret. If you want something, get off your arse and do what you can to make it happen, don't wait for some divine intervention.

Cassius Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Don't estate agents provide a service and > employment as well? Frankly I have never used a > bookies, and hopefully by the time we are out of > this recession there might be a viable alternative > to Estate Agents, but both are preferable to empty > shops. Exactly. And every empty shop means people losing their jobs, and in this climate it would be naive to suggest they will all walk into another one, and then how many of them have kids who will go short as a result, possibly lose their home. I'm sure there are plenty of shops on Lordship Lane I won't end up spending my money in but I don't wish the people out of business.

Bizzy Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > When a Christian *lectures* others on their beliefs, it > shouldn't be done in smugness. The smugness you > see is what your previous thoughts / advice / > opinions have planted into your head. How exactly do you know that no Christian has ever lectured Hugenot in a smug way?? That's a very dogmatic statement for something you have no evidence that is true.... but then I guess as a believer you get plenty of practice believing in things there is little evidence for. Unless you are actually telling us that you are in fact God and have therefore witnessed every conversation Hugenot has ever had with a Christian and can prove that the smugness was all in his mind?

I just shred anything I'd rather no one read - no room in an upstairs flat with no garden access for a bonfire. Doesn't cost much to get a decent one from WHSmiths.

snorky Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Why does the Pope still force followers of his > brand of religion to live shitty, poverty ridden > lives , banging out kids every year or so , cos > they cant use decent contraception - is this the > same god ? I am no great fan of the catholic church having been raised a catholic, but this is a bit overstated. I went to a Catholic school and most of my class mates came from sensibly sized families - some were even only children. Although my mum stuck with the rhythm method (or more accurately I suppose my non-catholic dad tolerated it), she knew the local priest used to tell her friends that contraception was a matter for their concience alone and he wasn't going to pass judgement on them if they chose to use it. They used to teach us about using contraception in school too - always presented as the sensible thing to do, not something that would make you burn in hell. Ok, I am willing to admit this is probably way out of line with the pope's teaching, but I think it is closer to how the church operates in this country at least.

I haven't worked out what I am going to do for my summer holiday yet but I know I can't wait for a bit of sunshine :-). Looking forward to going swimming in Brockwell Park Lido, enjoying the parks and just getting out of the flat more - bit tempting to curl up in the warmth of my flat with a book in this weather. Pub crawl sounds fun too Strawbs - was the one last year I first met you guys. I quite fancy going on a salsa holiday - I've dabbled with classes but not stuck to it for long enough - a holiday sounds fun and a good way of getting my standard up a bit. Found a company that does trips to Cuba and Spain. Or I quite fancy going to Italy again, if I can get fit enough I'd like to do a walk of the Cinque Terre. Might manage to fit both in - one week in June, one in September... I don't like the heat enough to do something really physical in July or August.

Even to the extent it's possible to be upwardly mobile through classes it doesn't totally change how you feel inside. I do a job which would very much class me as middle class, but my parents background is more skilled working class and I think a fair amount of my beliefs and values are informed by that. I'm certainly quite concious of having had an altogether more modest upbringing than a lot of my peers at work - not sure it's a complete coincidence that my best work friend has a very similar background to me either. As to whether I show any thrifty tendancies... Well, I'm pretty god at running through my money it has to be said (or bad from my perspective). But I am still a sucker for special offers - would rather end up stocking up on toiletries if I can get a good deal on buy one get one free or 3 for 2 than paying full price. And I use the library and buy books in charity shops too. Though it has to be said I still buy more than enough off Amazon too... Need to get more thrifty really, pensions are getting so much more expensive. I'll be working into my 70s if I don't start saving more.

kent

david_carnell Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I'm not sure it is just people on benefits > who have tight budgets for food these days. The tv > programme highlighted whole families from Leeds, > with seemingly both parents working, and in the > current climate everyone is considering cut-backs. > Food items are often the first to suffer. I'm in > agreement over the issue of time and education > being the key to healthy food though, as opposed > to budget. However, Britons work the longest hours > in Europe - not something conducive to "slow-food" > (of which I am a big advocate - see here). All good points. I suppose for the less well off working families something could be done via tax credit system - I had originally thought about suggesting increasing the tax free allowance in my previous post but had dropped that because it benefits the rich too, has forgotten tax credits. Definitely agree something needs to happen on the education front. I think there has been too much focus in schools on academic qualifications and league tables. I'd like to see decent health and nutrition education and financial education for all - a bit more focus on life skills. It's all very well trying to make supermarkets behave more responsibly and financial services companies provide better advice, but knowledge is power in my book.

espelli Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I also think there should be some way of reducing reliance on prepared meals and other processed foods. VAT added as it is in restaurants maybe? That will then make it cheaper to buy food like fruit and veg rather than cheaply produced pies etc. This idea has just occurred to me and I haven't thought all the implications through so would be interested to get other opinions. My initial equally unthought-through reaction is I agree. I don't suppose it would be overly popular, but then nor is rising taxation on alcohol and cigarettes. But ultimately if the government can encourage healthy choices by making them relatively more attractive, whilst collecting taxes to pay for the impact on the health service of unhealthy choices, that would seem like a sensible choice to me. I am sure people would start grumbling about nanny state etc - but if we are going to offer healthcare free at the point of use then it seems sensible to provide some sort of incentive to be healthy and tax those making unhealthy choices. I suppose an issue is it could be seen to be anti the poor because richer people could afford to carry on eating the way they did before and poorer people wouldn't. But if they gave back part of the extra VAT collected in extra benefits / state pension then that could counter that argument... Something needs to give somewhere - the NHS simply can't cope with the ever increasing demands upon it - either more money has to come from somewhere, or something needs to happen to stem the ever demand... taxing unhealthy food would seem to help on both counts.

I am not sure how many people really can't afford healthy food - a healthy diet is more a matter of knowing what is really healthy, preparation time and imagination than funds. Generally when I end up eating badly because of poor planning leaving me with no easy healthy options when I get home late, it's not money that is the issue. And I think Jamie Oliver proved you could provide pretty healthy food in schools on quite a low budget. If there are people who can't afford because their benefits are too low, then it would probably be easier to increase the level of benefits rather than try to manipulate supermarket prices to ensure they can afford it. After all, either way the more affluent members of society will fund, either through increased taxes or through increased prices, and the former is probably easier to manage. But then it doesn't ensure it gets spent on healthy food... I think there are a lot of issues with supermarkets, wider than just the quality of food they provide. Have you read Shopped by Joanna Blythman, David? It's quite sobering reading. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Shopped-Shocking-Power-British-Supermarkets/dp/0007158041/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1232663043&sr=1-1. Oh and you might enjoy this book too - Do Good lives have to cost the earth http://www.amazon.co.uk/Good-Lives-Have-Cost-Earth/dp/1845296435/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1232663886&sr=1-2. (if you do fancy a read you can borrow my copies) Certainly agree with your comments on meat. I think the issue you've raised is a common one with things that affect the environment - we simply don't pay the full cost of our actions on the planet and so overconsume - flights are similar.