TheCat

The press and opposition love calling out 'u-turns' it seems. And while of course we want to see leaders with well considered plans and conviction in their plans....isn't it also the sign of a good leader that as the facts change, they change their mind? Yes...many government changes of decisions this year can be seen negatively and are reflective of poor due diligence in my view....but I don't think all changes of heart should be seen in this negative light.... I mean sunak going to cop in eygypt....is it really a uturn worth attacking? He probably shouldn't go, as plenty to get done at home...but is going because Boris is going.....fair enough...UK doesn't want BJ leading the conversation on their behalf....a sensible move in changing circumstances...

So brexit has made it HARDER to eject asylum seekers.... Ergo.... remainers would prefer a situation when it was easier to get rid of them?

You really are a hateful spiteful person aren't you? There's been a violent attack and a man is dead. The motivation is unknown. Yet you see it as yet another opportunity to score cheap points over brexit. Disgusting.

Got my wallet stolen on the weekend....waiting for new cards...could be a while with royal mail....

Nice to read my OP.....standy by it.....

Ha yep...while Sir Keir will (as he should) call for a GE to be called at every opportunity....I would bet it would be squeaky-bum time for Sir Keir if they turned around tomorrow and actually did call one.... I mean if I was him I'd much prefer to sling mud from the cheap seats at the moment...

Thinking out loud....If both frontrunners can swallow a bit of pride for the sake of party unity (unlikely, particularly in BJ's case , based on history)....then perhaps a Sunak premiership with BJ as, say, Home Secretary....could at least have a shot at making the tory party governable.... Of course that in no way means they will have any answers in actually governing the country....but the latter will never stand a chance of happening before the next GE, if the former isn't sorted to some degree....

Not sure about that.... Last time I was at carter's when it came to Peckham I saw two boys (about 4 and 6) get into a punch up on a kids train ride about who got to 'drive' the train. The ride had to be stopped and the boys thrown off... I will neither confirm nor deny that the boys may have been brothers and may have been my sons... I certainly walked away like I didn't know them.... 😂

I would like to make a followup joke Mal... But I dont want to offend anyone on account of the fact that I'll soon be leaving East Dulwich, leaving behind those who (unlike me and my safety net) have no other option than to continue to purchase and read the Guardian.... And I think it's similarly insensitive for me to joke about the 27% inflation we've seen in silken tofu prices...I blame anyone who isn't Jeremy Corbyn...

It's heartening to see you rush to the defence of people (coincidently, who you seemingly philosophically agree with on the big issues with, based on previous posts) when mean old Cat goes a bit too far... I must have missed your white knight messages calling out the regular abusive language which gets sent my way....which is fairly consistent, whether I post or often when I haven't posted in ages... In any case.... Your comments on Internet forums are fair... And if others have the right/the grounds to complain about me.... Then I similarly have the same.... I was just doing it in the language that many of those contributors on here often use themselves...xenophobic,othering,gasligjting etc etc.....but apparently those words are only meant for 'other' people😂

Isn't it amazing how one makes a couple of throwaway, wry comments on the Internet and total strangers with an axe to grind over your political views pore over the exact wording and decide they are entitled to make judgement calls about your motivations and personal circumstances....

Classic gaslighting. Repeated resentful beration about 'fucking off' or 'swanning off' back to my home country. Repeated comment that my views are not what 'British people' want. So because I have an option to move to another country, and my views are at odds with 'British peolple' view as you see them.... This means my views aren't apparently valid and Im labelled 'reprehnsibe' and display 'sickening arrogance' for the crime of moving my family to the land of my birth and my extended family. Classic othering. You don't know me. You don't know why I have chosen to relocate my family...ill give you a f#cking hint... Its got nothing to do with brexit. So, no. You won't be getting a retraction from me.

Read this... Then read your post again... What Is Othering? Othering is a phenomenon in which some individuals or groups are defined and labeled as not fitting in within the norms of a social group. It is an effect that influences how people perceive and treat those who are viewed as being part of the in-group versus those who are seen as being part of the out-group. Othering also involves attributing negative characteristics to people or groups that differentiate them from the perceived normative social group. It is an “us vs. them” way of thinking about human connections and relationships. This process essentially involves looking at others and saying "they are not like me" or "they are not one of us." Othering is a way of negating another person's individual humanity and, consequently, those that are have been othered are seen as less worthy of dignity and respect.

) This reads pretty clearly as dogwhistle xenophobia.... perhaps you're not all that different from those brexit voters you so despise.....

I encouraged one Greek speaker who thinks one thing to talk to another Greek speaker who thinks another... For people who don't speak Greek... On what basis should we automatically side with one Greek speaker and not the other?

Haha... You need to actually say something of substance first before you can have a record...

True to form (at least you've been consistent for 6 years) your comments are based on how other people reacted based on vague labels you've ascribed to them....ans don't actually address any issue directly yourself. Is your purpose to actually make an argument? Or just dismiss and mock people who disagree with you? By contrast, DR and I clearly have combative online back and forth... But at least he has a few of his own thoughts to share with the group....

@DR..... In your rush to mock me I think you miss that actually agree on far more than you seem to think...not everything of course🤣.... . I think you've just proven that you perhaps don't 'truly know' the 'markets'. Yes... In theory the market will immediately, perfect price every price of new information...but the market doesn't work like they tell you in 6th form economics. If the market (any publically traded market - shares, currency, fixed income, commodities etc) was 100 efficient' then no one would ever make or lose money. Don't forget these are the same markets which in no way predicted one of the biggest financial crises of all time.... Sure...dont entirely disagree... But it was more like a £270bn black hole. The tax policies they might have actually got away wi... Given As I've said over and over...each of the tax policies weren't particularly radical (no one seems to actually have made an argument against that here I should add) .. But look at all you guys commenting who are under the impression that the tax policies were. The result of.. 'crazy libertarians!' or 'failed brexit economics'.... How about just a poorly timed and communicated economic announcement?.... Totally agreed. That's making my point above in different language. Agreed. Except about the corbyn bit. As all my well learned remainers friends often ask... What specific policy announcement in the mini-Budget could the UK government have NOT announced prior to brexit? Answer.... they could have made exactly the same set of announcements prior to brexit, so how was this a 'brexit economics' budget. Because brexit supporting politicians were behind it?... I believe the Potential advantages of brexit come in the form of rationalising regulation and inveatment incentivisatio policies across different industries (which I've said many many times before over the years.. Some people might call them 'supply side reforms')... Nearly 3 Years later, and (for various reasons) the government still hasn't made any material changes on this front... Truss and kawrteng talked about detailing a raft of them later this year, but now they'll never have the chance. You can mock the idea that different leave voters having different views of how brexit can be best leveraged...(It seems to be your 'go to' soundbite when you want to sound smug and dismissive).... But its another example of something not quite being the 'gotcha' that you think it is... Umm yeah.... Of course people will disagree about how to manage the economy, even two leave voters. Go find me two random voters for any political party or cause and let's see how much they disagree on. OR...putting it another way... .let's just imagine we were still in the EU... Would every remain voter have the exact same view on how the economy should be managed? Or would be a case of 'not my remain economics'.....

Nearly half of your list are 'outcomes/consequences'.... Not feature of the mini-Budget.... But anyway.... Your post is a great example of how it's now just accepted that it was all some 'crazy libertarian experiement'.... My point is... It really wasn't.... It just too much all at once, and haphazardly released with little to no conxern over how the market would react... So top rate of tax change... 2bn impact... Pffft... Who cares? ...certainly not the bond or currency market.. But it was unessesaary and made an easy stick for opponents to beat truss and kawrteng with. In anycase... It meant the top rate of tax would be at the same level as it was through all but the last few months of the last labour government..... Blair and brown... Those crazy libertarians huh? Removal of the bonus cap... Poor politics to be sure... Will make bugger all difference... The proportion of the 10s of thousand of cityworkers who potentially could get paid more than 2x their base salary as a bonus with no cap would be in the very low single digits. And again... This wod have had zero impact on the bond or currency markets... Why would a bond investor care about a private company's remuneration policy? No obr forecast was indeed stupid and falls under the umbrella of poor communication and implementation. 45 billion of 'unfunded' tax cut.... Let's ignore the fact that there is no such thing as unfunded tax cuts...there is only unfunded spending.. If I let you keep more of your own money, would you say that extra money which you earned is unfunded? .... But anyway, that's a bugbear of mine... So petty minutiae aside......As I said above the only thing that could be considered radical was the potential 150-200bn energy plan (which you haven't even mentioned). They probably could have got away with 45b in isolation to be honest... For a country who's got spends about 1 trillion quid a year... 45bn is probably sellable if done sensibly.....also consider as I mentioned that over half that cut was just leaving rates at levels they were at 6 months ago... hardly crazy liberartian territory... It was a s! T show to be sure, as I said, too much all at once, incoherent and poorly justified.... But your post sort of proves my point that the narrative allowed to take hold (and has now become 'truth' for many people) was that the 'bat sh!t crazy libertarians'are off their rocker.... I'd agree with you if there actually were any meaningful crazy liberartian policies within the dogs breakfast that they announed....

It does amuse me how much I must irritate some of you guys on here to drive you to often go out of your way to have an unprompted, gratuitous pop at me🤣 In any case... I stand-by that comment. And what has happened in the ensuing time serves only to reinforce it for me.... Starts with market overreaction to mini-Budget, largely driven by appalling messaging and communication, then subsequently driving hysterical media reaction, mostly from journalists who know appalling little about 'the market' ...and then it all became vicious circle/sef-fulfilling narrative and it was all too late for liz and Kwasi... But they've only themselves to blame... Trying to do too much all at once, without adequate communication. In my view, with much more careful, progressive implementation over time, and better communication (liz wasn't even sighted until 2-3 days after the announcement)...the market wouldn't have batted much of an eyelid in my view, as the underlying bare bones of what they wanted to do wasn't particularly radical....other than the energy price cap becuase of its immense size... Although that wasn't what seemed to rile people up at all... It was the 'massive' 2bn quid impact of top tax rate change, or the 'radical' move to leave corporation tax and national insurance at exactly the same levels as where they were 6 months ago....oh and let's not forget the 'outrageous' decision to drop the basic rate of tax by an entire 1p..... They never had control of the narrative... Hysterical ott reaction with no effective pushback ensues and is allowed to become the 'truth'...so they were finished before they got started... As I said in the full text of my original post which DR trawled back to, in order to try and have his 'gotcha' moment (about halfway down page 1 of this thread for anyone struggling to find the fairly innocuous original post).... none of this is meant to imply I liked the mini-Budget.... But ott and hysteria is exactly what has happened...

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/oct/17/jeremy-hunt-liz-truss-budget-trussonomics An extreme cynic and conspiracy theorist might say that the tories have played an absolute blinder here... Rolling out liz to recklessly slash taxes and give away more borrowed money... Then completely balls up the communication of that as well, so that even voters who would ordinarily love lower taxes and 3 years of extremes of energy bills paid for, are now sh1t scared of 'the market'..... Such that now even the Graun and various leftwing commentators seem to be uncomfortably accepting things like the NI increase, and the need for austerity..... George Osborne take note....

@yeknomyeknom THE word 'monkey' is also a well know racial slur. Yet you use it twice in your forum name. Albeit backwards. I'm guessing you might argue that you are not using it in a racist context. I don't speak Greek. So I'm not trying to argue about the bakery name one way or the other. Just making the point that perhaps sometimes things aren't so black and white (no pun intended).

I am responsible for Brexit😂😂😂 Yes it was me. I did it... Of course I had a little help from around 17million friends... Not just once, but also in two GEs.... For the crime of being 1 person amongst 17million who voted a certain way 6 years ago.... I should definitely be banned from leaving the country....

Isn't it funny how you don't have anything insightful to say about the actual factual numbers quoted in the report... You can disagree with opinions and disagree with forecasts..but the hard numbers are what they are... I'm sorry they inconviently don't align with your views... Facts can be a real b#gger like that. But anyway.... I'm sure you will remind me that 'everyone' just 'knows' that the whole thing is a total 'disaster', apart from 'fanatics'. But given I'm the one quoting numbers and presenting comprehensive analysis as a means of having a balanced and informed discussion on the impacts thus far.... And you're the one blindly dismissing it without making even one counter argument, and probably haven't even bothered to read the report because you know you won't like it... I guess you really must ask yourself who the 'fanatic' is..... As an aside, your indignant and totally batsh-t crazy rage at my upcoming relocation really is an amusing and welcome bonus to making the move....

Probably too much analysis of actual data in this report for this forum, and not enough flimsy hyperbole about the brexit bogeyman.... https://www.briefingsforbritain.co.uk/what-impact-is-brexit-having-on-the-uk-economy/