Blah Blah

'There is also the potential that things will start to wither and become just a series of self-replicating thoughts/debate/discussions.' That is an extremely goood point, and something I've seen on other forums. Debate does get locked down to the same predictable range of of views and responses. Debate is about expressing a view, listening to the antithesis, and being prepared to change your view if the antithesis has merit. What often happens I think is that debate in forums is not debate at all, but a sounding box for people with strong and unmovable opinions.

Great result missmack, but absolutely no excuse for hubby forgetting pizza ;D Truly well done.

When checking the pawn shops, ask the people behind the counters and leave a number and description of all the stolen jewelry too. Might be worth asking if they have stolen item alerts accross branches too.

I think everyone is making valid points. I think most people do seperate the rememberance from the political. The poppy as we all know, came about as a symbol, out of the true sadness of WWI, where whole villages lost all their men. I don't think there was ever any notion of glorification of war intended there. I had a great uncle who died at the Somme, and I don't see glory. Just grimness and a lonely way to die. And let's also remember that it was a war that shook the old guard to it's core and changed the social order of Europe and her allies forever. The poppy also reminds us of that and makes us revisit both WW1 and WW2. Whilst leaders, it is true, seem to fail to learn from history, I would hate to see a world where people no longer know anything about those wars, and what was at stake. And whilst Iraq was/is a shameful exercise, I wouldn't ever deny rememberance to the families of those who have fallen there. Their bereavement is real, and painful too.

Point taken minder. I just think it's better not to add fuel to the fire, and rise to it when that happens. It's clearly opened a few raw wounds.

I just read the link to the thread. That is a truly awful thread and Sue, you should be ashamed of it, not defiantly crying foul. The post from El Pibe is not the thing that is the problem there imo. I don't know if you were having a bad day at the time but that is just the worst example of 'dog with a bone' I've seen on a forum, over an issue that is extremely sensitive. And if you have got yourself into scrapes like that, the worst thing you can do is drag them up. It will only drive you round the bend and probably everyone else too. Let it go.

Sorry to hear that Natalie. At least we have a heads up in the area now and the fact that the two cars together are a pretty good description, hopefully these guys can be caught sooner rather than later. I think burglary is up everywhere. Sign of the times sadly.

This is where it all gets messy. Old debates dragged up, old conflicts, grudges resurface, and most of us have no idea what anyone is talking about. Isn't it better to let sleeping dogs lie? Btw Otta, I do apologise, You are right, I didn't read your post properly and reacted stupidly.

We can challenge him Sue. Davis you are showing no understanding of the times that people lived in. Conscription was compulsary. Men did refuse and ended up in Jail. Men who were already serving and refused were shot. In WWII some soldiers were too frigthened to fire their weapons. It's one of the reasons why we have smaller but more highly trained and selected armies today. Yes some wars are unjust. Others are self defence. All wars are a waste of life and resources. But remembereance is about the plight of those ordinary men (and women). It is not about the monarchs, and governments that sent them to their deaths. They were incredibly brave, all of them on all sides, and it is the bravery we honour, and the sacrifice. It really doesn't matter if the cause was just or not. Incidentally, it was the lack of respect shown to the German fallen that in part left Adolf Hitler so angry after WW1, and that sentiment was not only his. Also I think there are some valid comments you make on fresdom etc but WW1 and WW2 were reactions to aggressors determined to invade the whole world (if they could) and impose a totalitarian regime. Or do you think we should have let the Kaiser invade France, and North Afica? Or the Nazi regime invade all of Europe. Yes women and homosexuals etc were not equal, but no-one apart from Germany was gassing peolple.

If by flounce you mean getting annoyed, then yes. I mean, let's all poke fun at that bloke who dares to complain about the stupid, tiring and wrong allegations of a couple of miss marple's. Really, has Otta nothing better to occupy his brain with?

No Otta, I'm just fed up of the recurring same bs, and it is bs. I've had it since the first time I posted, and it's a bit tiring now - change the record please. How would you like it if I start accusing you of being every person you have a similar style to? But it wouldn't even occur to me to do that. I have better things to think about. And just to add, it's that kind of constant nonsense from (I'm guessing you are) established posters that makes newcomers like me turn off from the EDF. Is that what you want Otta? You want me to become one of those people that has little good to say about it and it's group of established posters? Maybe THAT is what the clique is.

What are you talking about Otta? So you now think I am two other people as well - that's now makes four people I am supposed to be? What kind of sad person do you take me for? Oh wait, you actually don't know anything about me, apart from me being a vegetarian bloke with two kids (because that's all I've revealed about myself on here). Anyone else get subjected to this nonsense?

Quite Alan, who cares indeed. It doesn't really matter. But if posters are being 'cornered' as suggested above then that does matter. It might be easy to spew bile and accusations when anonymous, but so too it is easy to keep on at a poster until they cave in. What is often described as bullying on forums is more a case of soemone having to have the last word. If you then have several people having to have the last word, then it gets quite messy. It should be enough to express a view and be ok about others expressing a different view, without a need to keep emphasising the point. Tone also plays a part, as well as written styles of expression. It's so easy to form the wrong impression of someone, and of what they are trying to say.

Well said Sue.

I haven't been around long enough to know all the characters but I tend to associate the idea of a clique with recurring themes, behaviour. In my own case it the accusation of being a troll or another poster after a handful of first posts. That is a recurring theme of a small group of people, who never apologise when shown to be wrong it seems.

There are cameras fining people for being in the bus lanes in Lordship Lane, so a camera on this junction surely is possible?

it's playing up tonight. Keeps redirecting my connection, even though I am logged in.

Surely this e-petition is a waste of time? No government is ever going to ban fireworks.

No dv1, sorned vehicles do NOT have to be insured. Taxed vehicles have to be insured, wherever you keep them and whether you drive them or not, but sorned vehicles are fine as long as they are not on the public highway. And if as suggested above, that part of the pavement is private land then the vehicle can sit there as long as it likes if it is sorned.

The owner would have had to renew the sorn until last year, so there is an owner somewhere. Technically a sorned vehicle can't be kept on a public highway, so technically it shouldn't be parked there, but.........

I love how human beings have the audacity to call any animal a pest, when it is they who do the most damage to the planet and kill more of their own for no reason than any other living species.

The vehicle has been sorned since 2010.

Totally agree, and it's all very tragic. For part of my post-graduate degree I looked at the psychological impact of conflict and war, on those making the decisions, doing the fighting and civilians impacted. As I'm sure you know, there's a slow but steady mental health breakdown that occurs and ultimately, the longer it goes on the more that psychopathy triumphs. So it is no suprise to me that what we can easily distinguish as war crimes in peace time (and be rightfully shocked by), seem perfectly normal and acceptable at the peak of war. And by he end, ordinary people are so broken that they have no resources to call their leaders to account. Even terrorist acts/ bombings have a trajectory of response. The first bombing/ beheading brings a reaction of shock, the second a reaction of outrage, and the third becomes a call for revenge. The point being that an act of terror goes from being a new experience to one we get used to. Human beings can get used to all sorts of things, and just as the norm can shift, so too can the accepted norm of reaction.

I'm guessing that oil/fat is the stain cuplrit (can't see how turkey would stain otherwise) so anything that removes those things should work.

I'm guessing they all died from poisoning?