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What happens if you take both pills? Nirvana?

Poynders Court has just been cordoned off by Police. Let's hope it is something that leads to a good outcome. Edited to say that the focus is centered on one block of flats with a search team preparing to enter.

There are places that dip them into a chemical bath to take all the paint off in one go. That's what my parents did. I think it cost about ?40 for each door. These guys do that in Dulwich. https://www.pjpine.co.uk/door-stripping/

Sephiroth Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > ? Ever seen a poor Farmer ? ? > My family are farmers and like a lot of smaller farmers, they are not rich. Land is actually worth more for development than farming these days and a lot of farmland is rented as well. There are rich farmers for sure, but they tend to be massive landowners. From the crofters of the highlands to the small organic market gardens of the South East, farming is far more diverse than that. Back on topic however, the biggest moaners (after cab drivers of course) have to be politicians surely? Followed by talk radio presenters :P

LOL EDguy89. Just one correction. March the 4th is the big day for Trump. Apparently that is the real day of the inauguration when Trump will be restored to the Whitehouse aaaaaand.............

I completely agree Spartacus. It is not just flu that has been suppressed by these measures, but also seasonal colds and chest infections. So there is a lesson in there for all of us I think.

Not strange at all. We have been in harder lockdown since the New Year. We also have an extensive annual vaccine program against flu (which was extended this year to the over fifties) and it has not has the opportunity to spread in the usual way. It is in fact, one of the upsides of the pandemic, but can also be seen as a moot point given that it has been replaced by something far more deadly to those most impacted.

;D

You might find this interesting Malumbu. https://www.apa.org/research/action/speaking-of-psychology/conspiracy-theories Karen Douglas is leading the research on this area of psychology in the UK at present.

It is not about only discussing positives, but about discussing verifiable truth. You are offering a database that literally anyone can add to. The submissions are never verified which makes it worthless for use as an indication of anything.

uplandrd2020, just stop it please. You are forcing me to wholeheartedly agree with TheCat! But seriously, people will continue to die from normal other causes after having had any vaccine, let alone this one. The people promoting these lies, are deliberately trying to undermine health expertise. They don't care if it is the truth or not, only that you believe it. For the record, there is intense monitoring of the vaccine, specifically for adverse reactions. That we get to know about those adverse reactions is because doctors freely publish this data. Vaccines can cause complications in a very small number of people with immunodeficient conditions, and sometimes conditions that have not yet been diagnosed. This is even true for vaccines that have gone through all stages of trials (up to seven stages in some cases). The fact remains that the overwhelming majority of people receiving these vaccines (and that means tens of million globally so far) have done so without any adverse reaction. That is the bigger picture, and the one that counts.

uplandrd2020 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > the vaccinated will be protected and i wont,i cant > pass it on to vaccinated people.If i could what > would the point be of the vaccine. The only life > im risking is my own, as all the good citizens are > happy to be be injected with experimental mRNA, > which by the way has killed hundreds so far. Sadly, no vaccine is 100 per cent effective so some people who have been vaccinated will still get seriously ill and die. It will be far lower numbers than at present, but it will happen. I would argue we all have a responsibility to do our part to suppress this virus. Your second point claiming that MnRNA vaccines has killed hundreds so far is not based in evidence. People will still die from natural causes and other conditions after having a vaccine. If you are going to make an unsubstantiated claim, then cite a peer reviewed report that backs that claim.

Too early to tell on the longer term effects of the vaccine. All that is known so far is that they appear to suppress infection.

I think it is a sensible roadmap, allowing time to measure the impacts of each stage on the R number. This is the only way to go if we are not to repeat the mistakes of last year. It is not about stopping all deaths either. It is about getting things to a manageable level with a reopened economy. The monitoring for mutations will be ongoing just as is the case with influenza. Repairing the economic and mental health impacts however is going to be a different challenge. And that is where normal party politics will return, over who bears the true burden of the borrowing etc etc.

Those who are vaccine hesitant are expected to eventually take the vaccine, so there may be a small percentage of genuine anti-vaxers left. How much influence they can exert over others is the real question. I would guess it will be less and less as the vaccine rolls out and the economy opens up again.

Surge testing taking place in Croydon and Addington from this morning after local outbreak of the South African variant.

I'm not lecturing you though. I am pointing out why this conversation around 'with or of' really doesn't matter. Yet it gets trotted out all the time, usually by people trying to question the risk the virus presents, as though the death figures themselves are not significant in a landscape of severe restriction on social contact. Bear in mind where this thread begins (although I did not see the deleted posts) with the OP complaining about have posts removed by admin.

TheCat Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I'm not supporting Uplannd's broader position on > this thread KK....but to this specific point, > isn't this actually directly relevant to the point > about mis-recorded deaths? > > I.e. If someone who has had a positive Covid test > within 4 weeks prior of death, then actually dies > of undiagnosed cancer...then it will be recorded > as a Covid death..... > > Am I missing something? No, because this in not how it works. The conditions covid induces or exacerbates to cause death are pretty well understood by now. There has to be a strong opinion that covid played some role in the death of a person for it to be recorded as a covid death. A better question to ask might be 'where are the grey areas?'. So a grey area might be someone who has an underlying condition that can be deadly, even with treatment. If their death is not expected, and they have covid, then that may be an explanation offered for the sudden turn for the worse in their underlying condition. Why? Because covid is triggering the immune system, and if the immune system is already having to work hard on something else, then you can see where logically, covid may be argued to have played a role. So linking back to my previous post, it becomes about excess deaths again. Higher numbers of people in any group, suddenly dying isn't coincidence. There will always be a common causal factor. Will the conclusion around covid in every case be right? No it won't, but it will be right enough of the time to indicate where we are realistically in relation to the virus.

'There is a big difference between dying with Covid or of Covid. If you currently die of a Heart attack and have mild symptoms of covid it is recorded as a Covid death.' This kind of statement is actually pretty offensive. Doctors treating patients in hospitals know very clearly when someone is dying because their respiratory system is collapsing from covid induced pneumonia. And that is what those figures are recording in the main, hospital deaths. In all likelihood, that actual figure is significantly higher, if we were to account for death in other places than a hospital. Autopsies take time to do and results are needed fast in a pandemic. So the emphasis is on 'excess' deaths compared to the five year average for the time of year, to gauge where we are. It is an indicator, not an absolute. Arguing the toss about absolutes it irrelevant and doesn't change the fact we are facing a epidemic virus that kills. Also, on deaths where people have also been vaccinated. In most cases, that will be coincidental. The very elderly are still dying from more natural causes, linked to old age. In some however, the work the body has to do to create the new antibodies may also be a factor, but that is a risk with all treatments given to the very elderly. There is a greater good element to this. You can have lots of elderly dying because they have no immunity to the virus, or you can have a few dying because their immune systems are not capable of responding to the vaccine. For government, that decision is an easy one, but I also understand how relatives may think the vaccine may have caused their loved ones death. We have to show understanding on that one where it arises.

The latest Adam Curtis doc on BBC iplayer gives some insights into why modern political systems are collapsing. Worth a look. Some insights on protest culture too that seem very relevant at the moment.

Brilliant effort. Will share and donate.

Removal of the trees may well be to allow for access for heavy machinery and materials. There are always other ways to do this. Having said that, using a crane costs considerably more than driving a vehicle onto site, but worth querying precisely why that space needs to be cleared.

Veola are contracted by Southwark Council so definitely complain to councillors and to the council itself. The council demands certain standards from its contractors.

Yes, social distancing in open air is the key. Mask wearing is not mandatory because it is negligible in the open air where people socially distance. However, it is worth having a face covering to hand where people are prone to ignore the social distancing, and always sanitise after touching shared play equipment.

Oh Cat, it is a bit rich of you to claim some remainers voted on on instinct and did no research when ignorance so typified a lot of leave voters and the lies they were sold. You were actually doing very well in your counter arguments until that point.