Huguenot

I appreciate you find it boring rubsley, but if you want to get more out of the conversation I think your own position needs to be a bit more coherent. You seem to confuse several distinct concepts: for example self-awareness, self-actualization, self-realization, consciousness and enlightenment. You seem to confuse philosophy with spirituality, and mysticism with theology. You confuse a process such as scientific method, with a discipline such as physics or chemistry. You confuse ambiguity with insight, and precision with ignorance You make many claims for your definition of god, and then cite as your allies a number of historical figures who would be hard pushed to agree with each other, let alone yourself.

This thread, the rampant rabbit before it, and the katie girl-kissing one before that... They all remind me of slack jawed gibbons in Borneo drooling as they pointlessly and listlessly pulled at their sex organs. Oooooh, loook. Vagina. *titters*. NOB *titters* bumsex *gurgles* What a waste of space. Pathetic.

PS I love this one: "If I have a religion it is the one from the future..."! That's right, because you are the messiah!!!

Rubsley, having failed to make any successful argument about the existence of god, I see no reason why we should just assume that you are right and discuss what role god should play in our lives. As with most god botherers you're moving into the bullying bulldozing area. That's the snake oil peddler insisting we should move on from calling him a fraud, and start discussing how many uses snake oil can be put to. Secondly, you have no foundation in trying to claim that the essence of god is a personal spiritual experience. There are huge movements, not least the disagreement between Catholicism and Protestantism, who cannot successfully resolve this issue. Hence your insistence in point '2' would fall into the area at I described earlier as 'grandiose claims' that you deny. In point '7' you seem to decide that god is in fact just another word for a personal spiritual journey, or perhaps a metaphor for the objective of that journey. This is another 'grandiose claim' that is not generally shared by those that believe in god. On point '11' I can find no evidence that anyone made a comment about God not wanting someone to smoke. I need you to find this for me, as I suspect you made it up. I shall unreservedly retract that if I'm wrong. However if I'm right it will make me wonder how much else you have made up to support your story? On point '17' you seem to be quoting the film 2010, which is as transcendental as a Hollywood scriptwriter. On point '29' you're even starting to use the first person plural as if you're talking on behalf of other people e.g. 'the grand set of ideas that we've chosen to call god'. This is delirious narcism. Your ideas are not generally shared by others, and you shouldn't be referring to your own views in that Queen Victoria way: 'WE are not amused'. Do you have delusions of grandeur? A touch of the Koresh about you? Most of your assertions seem to be rather bizarre rambling self-regard. I don't deny that you had some kind of 'experience', I simply see no reason why that entitles you to tout it around as evidence of god and start claiming that it gives you some sort of elevated moral and philosophical position on the meaning of life. On self-aware you're simply talking crap. As with most words in a shared language there is a generally accepted meaning. In this case self-aware means the ability to take an objective position to judge your past, current and future thoughts and behavior against an abstract set of concepts. In other words it is impossible to be at the limit of self-awareness, because the act of consideration puts in place a new set of thoughts and behaviors to consider. Hence it changes your self awareness etc. You seem to be confusing self-awareness with self-realization, and you seem to be unable to recognize that self-realization is not a fixed set of criteria. In your case the pinnacle of self-realization seems to be twirling in the meadow with daisies in your ears. Since that is the farthest you've come, your self-regard has caused you to assume that's the pinnacle of self-realization. That's another one of your grandiose statements.

You're trying to post rationalise mate, it's not pretty.

I may be, but then I don't believe in female circumcision, forced marriage, honour killings, paedophilia, domestic violence, people trafficking, etc. etc. Nor am I a self-conscious teenage girl who might want to go home if only I could do it quietly. Nor am I a kidnapper only keeping her alive until I get maximum public attention that the police were trying to prevent. Doesn't pay to make assumptions.

How do you know the family are frantic, and how do you know what they're frantic about? If she has been sighted then doesn't that suggest that she is absent of her own free will, and may explain why the police have found the issue difficult to resolve? From accusations of racism to class war, it seems that many are willing to sidestep the truth of the situation in order to use this 14 year old as a weapon in their own private war?

Eh rubsley? That's a logical impossibility. It's also beside the point, being self-aware is an internal issue. My disagreement with you is in the concept that a personal experience is evidence of something being 'out there' (which is what you have postulated). I don't doubt that an unusual experience can make you want to believe in god, I simply disagree that it is evidence of the existence of a god. There are many reasons to want to believe in a god, most of which are mundane. In fact, it's best to attribute anything you don't understand to a god, because to do otherwise is to bear witness to you own shortcomings.

It's in a public park you daft twit. If you think graphic penetrative sex doggy style is comparative with Katie Price eating a Magnum you're off your head.

I think the Ford C-Max Mark II 7 seater has got to be an option - only the MkII mind! Ticks all the boxes, it's got great fuel consumption figures (there's even a hybrid coming out if you wait a bit), and doesn't come with the dull family bore look of an MPV. I think you'd need the Grand version for 7 seats. From 19k list price on the road.

I think the title of the thread is 'Is there a God' rather than 'Have you ever got spaced out'. SSEs that you describe are essentially internal events that give no support to the argument that 'there is something else out there' (which is a quote from rubsley). I don't see that 'self-awareness must be counter-balanced by a belief in an afterlife' - I'm as self-aware as my ancestors and have no such belief. I think such a belief is simply a coping strategy, a desire. And as I said before, wanting something to be true doesn't make it true. It provides no evidence that there is a 'god'.

Well I guess it's sad that selfish little idiots with the mental age of a 12 year old would have such little care for the concerns and sensitivities of others? No?

I'm not a big fan of hairdryers and radiators as they create high uneven heating which stress circuit boards and break connections. They may do more damage than the water!

So I was right with Phil Mitchell age and attitude... Now about the drugs and the guns...? I don't know whether you can see the flaw in your argument Simonet, but it's the other Phil Mitchell approaching the same junction at 5.00am from a different direction whilst speeding and thinking the roads are clear...

Damn cross-post, if only I'd have waited!

Oooh, did you? I had him down as an aspiring Phil Mitchell ;-)

The first thing local retailers should do is get together to do that study into where their customers are coming from, how they got there, if they drove where they parked, and how long they'll stick around. There shouldn't be any decisions being made until they have basic information, and they can do it themselves!

I think Jah keeps his there alongside a range of pencils and a list of outstanding locomotive numbers ;-) As for how it tumbles out, I guess that depends on how over served you have been (dreadful use of the past passive there!)..

Are you sure it's the deodorant? In the winter we wrap up so tightly that our pits can get warm, damp and get very little fresh air. This can be an attractive environment for the same sort of boogers that create athletes foot. Might be worth checking with the chemist?

Whilst that's true, that's not the issue from my part - I simply see no reason to ascribe that to a god, or proof that one exists.

You can sometimes get hold of 'dessicating' salts that they leave in clothes/shoes in boxes to take the moisture out and stop them going mouldy. I wonder if it's possible to buy one of these and leave it with your mobile for 24 hours in an airtight ziplock bag?

I think you're right to a degree Penguin68, but may be missing the fact that in Balham M&S Simply Food opened opposite Sainsbury so it's not a deal breaker. Also don't overlook the incentives local councils can offer in terms of rates and shared investment in additional ameneties. Finally, having worked with retail from an advertising perspective I know that there are plenty of things that big companies just don't see until you draw their attention to them. ED still flags as a low income, high unemployment location on planning studies like Acorn and Mosaic. It's not going to flutter any flags for 'aspirational' retail planners unless attention is drawn by other means. So yeah, if we wanted to draw attention to ED, there's plenty that could be done - it's not a completely redundant conversation.

I think you're demonstrating a series of assumptions of your own there paragon, and I don't think tossing around accusations is going to help anyone. The police and the social service have the best interests of the child at their heart, working with limited budgets. There are detailed and well thought-through strategies and approaches for dealing with situations of this sort. Knowing nothing about the situation, we should be be very reticent to start acting independently in a way that could be very damaging. If you'd like to help, I suggest you contact the relevant authorities and offer your services.

We had 12 people for Xmas lunch, we tried to offer 6 sprouts a head. That was 35 quid. Class War, oppression, etc. etc.

Herne Hill Guest, you don't mention your role in this situation? It causes me some concern. Are you aware that the Police also sometimes decide not to inform the media, or even request a coverage blackout if they feel such coverage may hamper the enquiry or even endanger the child? I'm sure your intent is well meaning, but I'm worried you may have misinterpreted the situation, you may not be fully aware of the relevant issues, and by accident you may do something inappropriate or possibly dangerous. The Voice tells us that both TJMP and the local police are aware of this situation along side the relevant social services. The police are in regular contact with the forum about local issues. These are professional and capable people, and we should be allowing them to do their job as appropriate.