Huguenot

The protestors don't know what they're protesting about for the most part - it's not a question of articulation. About the only general agreement seems to be that if we take money away from rich people under threat of violence that world will be all right once more. That's just plain stupid. Both yourself and SJ are making the same error of projecting what you are concerned about onto the protestors to convey some kind of legitimacy. Anyone at St. Paul's protesting about wasteful consumption and unethical food markets is likely to be in a severe minority. The fact that we're in a recession is not in itself a revelation. We get them every ten years. It's plain weird to be trying to blame banks for this. Austerity drives have come about because people are only electing governments who make promises about education, welfare and pensions that their societies cannot support. Ironically what many protestors want to see is more government spending - more of the same fantasy existence that will make the next generation destitute. In general, populist movements such as these are inherently destructive and counter productive. They create and persecute scapegoats like bankers, globalisation and greasy Greeks, they swerve from one desperate target to another with revolutionary zeal until there's nothing left but empty stomachs and the smoking ruins of their society.

The fact is that these people are not worrying about unemployment. You're investing them with a validity they don't deserve. To use their own words, they are "Anarchists, communists and greens with practical differences on the use of violence". Proper charlies.

Is this a joke? Me taking the piss out of tinpot protestors is a moral attack on unemployed people? How did you get to that? You've made something up - in your head - and you're projecting it on to me. Because we've never had unemployed people before right? You genuinely think that overthrowing capitalism is going to be a panacea that nobody has thought of before now? Hippies didn't exist? I understand you're worried, but we're not hunter/gatherers anymore. Any system we put in place is going to involve an exchange of goods and services and some sort of currency. There's also a bottleneck on resources related to over population. Protesting that, and 'bringing down the system' is just pathetic childish bollocks. I haven't got a clue where you're getting this rubbish about me hating unemployed people from.

eh what? I think you're projecting your own concerns onto the several tens of people at St. Pauls living in tents made by indentured chinese labour exploited by the regime they're intent on overthrowing. If we did a straw poll I reckon the number of attendees who think they're there to protest about rising unemployment would be significantly close to nil. As for suggesting that I have called unemployed people wasters, I think you and I both know where you can shove that little fabricated insult don't we?

"Sean, an 18-year-old civil servant who declined to give his surname, said he was prepared to protest until Christmas Day and beyond." Such things are revolutions made of - teenagers milking at the teat of the taxpayer who decline to give their name. Is it really any surprise that he doesn't want to put the graft in to earn a living?

"Before I had the baby I was a freelance film maker making films about young people" Because that isn't a cliche at all. "Anarchists, communists and greens with practical differences on the use of violence" Hee hee hee. "An end to capitalism" Not completely persuaded that these monkeys could organise a piss up in a brewery. "Is this the beginning of revolution?" Ooooooh, and wouldn't they just love that ;-) But maybe you're right SJ. Maybe I just think they're a bunch of right-on twerps that I've seen a hundred times before because I'm seeking comfort.

Sure thing, not exactly original though is it? Yoof in 'I don't want to work for the Man' shocker. Teenager in 'I don't have a plan but getting a job seems a bit like hard work' bombshell. Scrote in 'the world owes me a living, doesn't mum put clean clothes in my chest of drawers' revelation.

Every class at my school had someone with an 'alternative' haircut who wrote political statements on their yellow Milletts rucksac. I'm only surprised that there aren't more morons at Paternoster Square. If there is 'something happening' globally that we 'don't know what yet', it's probably just a tolerance for right-on twerps. That's not to say that I'm reactionary, but generally when the UK population have an opportunity for major change they prefer to side with the establishment and hate foreigners.

And the petty mitherings of Iron Age political movements are relevant because...?

Oh dear this is silly. Have we really got people on this thread claiming the 'establishment' had him killed, and conspiracy theorists suggesting that it's a ruse? And toasters are magic, and gravity is a theory? Sure. It's possible that it's a ruse - but we base our interpretations on 'balance of probability'. Enter UDT, stage left, with a woo woo comment.

I'd be happy to consider the substantiated findings of any organisation that can identify itself beyond a website full of unattributed opinion. Looking forward to it.

Oh right, it was the way you used the word 'report' to imply they had information - it's just opinion and speculation is it? As long as that's clear. So, to clarify, some years ago a goup of people published some opinion and speculation on a poorly laid out website that said they didn't like bankers, and you'd like to use it as evidence of me having a blinkered view. Disagreeing with you doesn't mean I'm blinkered UDT, and agreeing with wishful thinkers doesn't make you visionary.

I'd be happy to consider the substantiated findings of any organisation that can identify itself beyond a website full of unattributed opinion. Looking forward to it.

The e-dealer's pre-edited comment... "LOL!" The e-dealer's edited comment "I give up cant have a friendly chat on this site. Without some aggressive arsehole trolling around." Come on pookie chap, what's it to be? ;-)

He's right you know - veggie's have had their rights removed for hundreds of years. Overrun and taken against their will from their homeland they were sold into slavery, and traded like animals without basic human rights. Even now they suffer from the legacy of that persecution, frequently locked by tradition into ghettos with little social interest, suffering systematic institutionalised discrimination. There are even political parties generating a groundswell of support in more carnivorous parts of the country who believe them to be destroying British culture, stealing women, and living on the dole. I've heard of veggies getting attacked on the street by gangs of youths searching for any plausible target. Police still stop them on the street searching for peelers. Veggies have had it hard... BUT they are at last reclaiming 'the word'.

I'm sure there are examples of misbehaviour, but that doesn't support your argument. I don't think it's relevant to talk about these figh-falutin' situations when they're a minority of transactions. The fact is that SME makes up more than 50% of the UK GDP, and these tax benefits are critical. Not going to the exchequer doesn't make it non-productive. Not using it makes it non-productive. The 'loss to the public purse' is irrelevant - the question is was the money used. Citing 'cost involved' is also irrelevant, unless you can demonstrate that the exchequer would have spent the money more productively at a lesser cost than private investment. Since the government sets tax incentives to pursue legitimate public objectives, it's not reasonable to assume that taking advantage of these schemes is a misdemeanour.

*Drums fingers* *Looks at light switch* *Drums fingers*

Definitely get a separate keyboard if you've got kids or pensioners using it.

I'm in Singapore because I ended up here, probably same reason you're in ED. I left the UK 6 years ago whilst it was still booming, and Alan Dale was on this forum trying to persuade everybody to get involved in a buy-to-let frenzy that could 'never fail'. At that point tax and economies had no impact on my decision - I needed, as you do, to work. I'm not in any hurry to get back to the UK, because as an outsider looking in I can see a nation that is becoming increasingly negative, self-destructive and depressed - and a population that is denying its own role in finding solutions. It's a nation that whines relentlessly about the loss of democracy, but when given the opportunity to take a small step forward 60% vote against change. I don't want to come back to the UK because it's psychologically unhealthy and blames everyone else for its lifestyle choices.

I don't think bankers are criminal, I think certain activities should be criminalised. I've spent plenty of effort defending certain banking activities. I don't think people are criminal because they have the capacity to enact crimes, only if they do. In particular from a financial perspective those activities such as betting on failure, where the speculator has the means to enforce the failure and perceives no material loss as a consequence of the failure taking place. It is the responsibility of the government to legislate, and their unwillingness to do so makes them accessories.

Yes Pickle - the questions are a direct lift from the 'test before the test' in its entirety. If you pass that one it's considered worthwhile to go on to the formal one, but if you don't pass it's not.

The Hammers battering their way into 2nd place, now they only need to stay there for another, erm, 35 games. It's theirs to lose... ;-)

Pilloc de Pisson La Land

She's fit as a butcher's dog that Portas... http://asitc.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/mary-portas-1.jpg?w=500&h=333

Brash working class hero joshuadrooney in 'modern art is rubbish and middle class blow-ins can f*ck off' class warfare shocker. Hilarious - is it a spoof? Who are you really?