Huguenot

Unfortunately I didn't see any coverage, but I did hear some American female from the court house steps sounding forth on the verdict like she'd just liberated Tehran from the Socialists (deliberate conflation). It sounded like a good day to be American.

I didn't think he particularly was, I was just annoyed at being called a fanatic and being held responsible for a 'crisis' that had its roots in cheap credit and deregulation rather than international detente and social inclusivity.

Personal attacks? I think it was you called me a fanatic? Just another one of those who can dish it out, but doesn't like it when it bounces back? ;-) Put a chemist in front of a problem, he thinks it's all about chemistry, an economist thinks it's all about economics, a xenophobenthinks it's all aboutnforeginers and it seems a resident of Italy thinks it's all about Italy. Since you haven't actually disagreed with my points DaveR, rather you've said I'm not making enough of them, it seems the main thrust of your argument is that I'm not getting hysterical enough? This is a challenge there is no doubt, but it's only a crisis to jounalists and the self-indulgent. A good place to start would be for everyone to stop running around like headless chickens waving bits of paper that announce the end of the world.

'The real problem is Italian debt...' '...there will have to be (at least) a restructuring of the sovereign debt of a number of countries' See? This is the problem - a hysterical population has now started heaping in Italians alongside the Greeks, when they're completely different situations. I doubt very much that European economists have in mind 'the impact it would have on the Greek economy', the they'll be principally concerned with avoiding sending out destructive messages that the Euro is inconsistent, fails to protect its own interests, or will allow a centralised Euro based on the economies of Germany and France to overheat. "it's your kind of near fanatic idealism and economic illiteracy that got the euro into this mess in the first place' My kind of fanaticism? Don't be a prat. You've allowed your hatred of foreigners to overwhelm your good sense. I think you'll find that the problem was created by excessive consumer credit, bad loans, devaluation in mortage securities, under capitalisation, a liquidity crunch, and a recession that pushed borderline economies into a situtation where profiteering money markets imposed cavalier interest rates that exceeded their ability to repay. The Euro wasn't perfect - it didn't have a healthy balance between labour and fiscal discipline, but that's because European integration had political as well as economic goals. Only an idiot with a poor grasp of world affairs would try and make this two dimensional. Since labour is likely to remain relatively inflexible in the short term, what we're seeing in Europe is an increase in fiscal discipline - but what many Economists feel is that they're moving too slowly. I agree with that, but I'm also willing to recognise that rabid xenophobes would stop them moving much faster. So DaveR, it's illiterates like you running round shouting that the sky's about to fall on our heads that is turning a drama into a crisis here. Just try and calm down and think about the complex consequences of a Greek default, instead of the binary conclusions you're drawing at the moment.

They need to have a response to this, something like... 'If these leaflets persuade even one person today to insulate their loft, it will save twice as much in energy as it cost to print them - these leaflets are an investment in your future'. Or something like that but true.

In accepting the political perspective you also expose the flaws in your argument. This is a modern society, and Victorian state borders built on paternalist hierarchies and a subordinate jingoist proletariat are fading fast under the bright lights of education and information. Sure, you'll still find a hardcore of believers in the backwaters of Tower Hamlets where French is for poofters and German is for Nazis. However, I simply don't feel that the people of Greece are any less deserving than the miners of Ripon - and I don't believe that the Italians are any more thieving than scousers. More importantly I'm not alone in thinking this. I can understand the desire to believe otherwise, but you're hanging onto rotten foundations during a storm of globalisation.

Whilst your point is valid new mother, you don't recognise that the same observation is valid within a nation. The sterling exchange rate that works for London and the South East is completely incorrect for the midlands and the north, which would benefit from a weaker pound to support manufacturing exports. Nobody ventures this as a reason for the pound not to exist, so it is no more valid as a reason for the Euro to exist. Your second calculation is also incorrect. A separation of the strong Eurozone countries from the week would result in a sudden and dramatic strengthening of the Euro on the markets, shutting down German and French exports and plunging them into recession. This would hammer trade throughout the Eurozone, resulting an estimated collapse of GDP worth 25% in central members (including the UK) and 50% in peripheral ones. In turn this would take down the global economy. So you see, the strong nations need the weak ones to hold them back. In short a collapse in the Euro would make the credit crunch look like a barely noticeable hiccup in comparison. So your 'sadly.. Would have loved to have worked', despite being bizarrely condescending, is both incorrect and disproportionately blase to the effects. Your 'break up with tiers' cannot feasibly work at all - you either have a currency or you don't. I think you may be referring to debt defaults rather than the Euro, but you'll need to be clearer on that before I can comment.

This is the first of a week long barrage from right wing Conservatives that is being slated before the conference starts next Sunday. Don't be confused by apparent 'good economic sense' arguments - this barrage is part of an ideological campaign by right wingers who wish to see massive cuts in government spending, an end to the welfare state, the disengagement of Britain from the rest of the world, and the deregulation of business. This is not a campaign to end equality, it's actually a campaign for 'Thatcherism, but more so, and with even less regulation'. The inconsistency and incoherence these commentators perceive, is that they say the current government is claiming to be Conservative, but actually sustaining the welfare state, intervening in business, and reaching out to the world for commerce in a way that clashes with Cretin Conservative values.

You keep putting references to subscription-only material silverfox, you've been reminded of it several times - but as with everything else you still persist on your own course of action indifferent to the advice of those around you. You can only expect then, since your own prose is vague and your history is obtuse, that you are likely to be misunderstood.

That's not a logical interpretation of many-worlds theory silverfox. Many-worlds assumes that all possible realities co-exist but cannot interact. Since there is no statute of limitations on this theory, it is only safe to assume that it also includes the creation of multiple universes. In fact the 'Many-worlds' theory is used as an explanation for the 'anthropic principle' (that's the one that questions why it is that the universe in which we live is perfect for us to live here). i.e. 'Multiverses' is a subset of 'Many-worlds'

99% of Britain did not agree with you - only 12.9m people did. Out of a population of over 60m that's not 99%. The European Central Bank (which administers the Euro) is not on the brink of anything - it's probably the strongest bank in the world. That's the problem with talking to you about anything - you just make stuff up and keep on lying. Certain banks in Europe (of mostly minor importance - don't claim you ever heard of Dexia before) are exposed to sovereign debt from governments such as Greece that have a repayment problem. Nobody wants to see these banks fail, because retards then deliberately cause a run on the banks to make money out of other people's misery. There's two tasks to resolving this - one is the process of increasing bank capitalisation that coincides with the credit crunch corrections, the other is to create a system which prevents similar problems occuring in the future. The act of 'shoring up' these banks is not throwing away money: these are trading exercises. As the UK discovered, saving the banks only costs a few tens of millions in the final analysis, more than the trillions a melt down would create.

Alice Springs was a police action. It's best forgotten.

There's no point in having the debate with you silverfox, because you just use every response to roll out tired xenophobic cliches like "unelected bureaucrats tell you what rates you set your taxes at" There's an easy answer to the question, which is that there are two competing groups in this: One is a group of visionary, inclusive, capable politicians who recognise that the long term security of Europe relies upon the creation of a united region with sound political and economic strategies that can negotiate effectively in a world of shrinking energy reserves and mineral resources. The other is a group of short-sighted financial carpet baggers, ably supported by narrowminded xenophobes and competitive economic blocs who would try and bring the European economy to its knees. They will attempt to do this in piecemeal fashion, by rolling Greece, rolling Italy, then Spain or Ireland until there is nothing left. It is not yet apparent who will win - it is clear that the latter group must not win if Europe is to prove a society worth living in, and that the former must never give up this battle with wheedling myopic Wormtongues so pervasive in cultures like the UK. Many will wish Europe to fail, because like the worst kind of ineffectual misanthropes, they want find some sense of justification by dragging others down to their acrid moral bankruptcy. Like voting reform before this, the importance of ideas such as economic convergence are like rubber bullets on the waste drum of your imagination. There's just a dull clang and a slight shift from the effluent within before it slumps to its original state. Now I shall leave you to your boorish comments - would that you could run your own private nation, so only you could suffer the privations of your cynicism.

Piersy is a 45 year old computer programmer... well, very almost ;-) This one makes Le Carre look like Sebastian Faulks http://www.johnlecarre.com/images/94t.jpg

Come on silverfox, you've been saying the same thing for years. Everyday is the new 'end of the world Euro day'. http://www.independent.co.uk/multimedia/dynamic/00587/camping_587187t.jpg Harold Camping Silverfox has been broadcasting his Doomsday predictions around the world. More here.., oh, and here... and here... and here... etc.

I don't think you understood the cartoon silverfox. The whole idea is that 'applied' sciences are to the left, and 'pure' theoretical sciences are too the right. The cartoon is making a joke that mathematics is so theoretical, so 'pure' that it's out of sight of the other sciences. That's the joke.

These types of thread are always tediously kicked off by craven anti-Europeans looking for another opportunity to say 'the Euro is dead' - rather witlessly they forget that the amount of times they said it is exactly the same number of times they've been wrong. So congratulations silverfox, you currently have a 100% failure rate in signalling the end of the Euro. Then the thread steps, as it does now, into a borderline xenophobic rant against the supposed laziness and criminality of foreigners. In that sense congratulations are also in order silverfox, for managing to do that in two posts! You saved us all a lot of bother.

Sorry I didn't answer your question - why am I defending it? I would have thought that was obvious for someone as clever as you - it's because I read it, enjoy it, and look forward to receiving it. I'm disappointed that someone would wish to take away that fun just for the sake of snide superior posturing.

As I said, quite disproportionate. Whilst they do like to create excitement around a subject, to call it the National Enquirer is pure unnecessary hyperbole. As is the bollocks about it being 'that easy'. You made that up too. If you can get one of your 'hypotheses' published I'll glady send you a crisp fiver for proving me wrong. So why are you so obsessive about this that you make stuff up to abuse it with? What made it so personal for you?

Cheers Medic - I have a UK VPN so I can watch just as if in UK :) If you ever want to watch US programmes or services you can do the same thing!

Sorry, silly question, but what channel are these games on in UK? Finding it difficult to get a stream.

Christ, my own business is totally reliant on private equity in the form of business angels. They've got plenty of other options for their cash, and SME is very high risk, so anything that dissuaded them from investing in small business start ups, early stage funding, the rounds and pre IPO would be absolutely insane. You'd kill small business. I can see an argument to dissuade those that target existing mature businesses from asset stripping, but Milliband would need to be very careful in how he couches any legislation.

The problem with all these single issue campaigns is that they're not single issue at all. Train services around South London are a web of interconnected services on an oversubscribed network. It is simply not possible to up one service without downing another. I crave the day when intelligent politicians will try and provide their consitutents with a rounded, inclusive and constructive picture of the changes. Both TJMP and James Barber have come on this forum with scare stories and rabble rousing claims about the local victims overlooked in favour of alien commuters from outside of London. These are seen as vote winning strategies - and I'm largely convinced that both these political teams neither know, nor actually give a shit what they're talking about. If you want to petition for anything, petition for a clear and insightful picture of the real issues, so you can make informed judgment. I've previously tried to correct many unfounded claims on this thread. Our society works better when we try and do what's best for everyone, instead of the needs of a minority.

Damn it, Googled 'caroline flint bikini maui' and came up with zero.

Congratulations, that's really truly excellent! Once in a lifetime thing. Brilliant!