heartblock

Exactly....I think living in a gated road may diminish one?s common sense? Maybe?

How many data points do you think are valid? And on what grounds Andrew? You seem to be the one quoting the massive changes.

No data doesn't 'speak' - data is presented and an intelligent person will then decide if it is valid based on validity of methodology and analysis.

Croxted Jan 2017....pre-LTN I mean ...really, are you really going to defend this data...

Pre was collected in Nov 2018 and Sept 2019 when there were no travel restrictions - the post data was collected in March 2021 - only essential travel , April 2021 restrictions and June 2021 ...Summer Collection data ATCs - published by Dulwich Council https://moderngov.southwark.gov.uk/documents/s101513/Appendix%20C%204%20-%20Dulwich%20Streetspace%20data%20collection%20timings.pdf

Yes - posting aggressively on Twitter to tell a school teacher and mother to move house if she lives on Croxted Road because LTN supporters want her to 'give us all a rest', just because she is scared for her childs lungs and is concerned about the traffic on her road post LTNs, is unpleasant, but let's get back to the points. The Consultation showed a negative response to LTNs and the EqIA showed that the elderly and BAME residents were the least likely to support and felt they had been negatively effected. No raw pollution data was made available. Traffic rose on EDG and Croxted. Buses were slower on EDG and Croxted. Winter pre Covid was compared to Summer in lockdown to compare cycling and traffic. So - why are LTNs remaining?

I fear the less affluent end of ED Grove has been abandoned by our Councillors in the main. James is the only one I have ever seen outside of the election period, otherwise I get 'knocked-up' just before an election or see them in the press at any opening or photo-op. Considering the tragic accident and the following grief and shock felt by many on ED Grove in the Summer, one did hope that one of the Councillors would have visited the area. I imagine the plethora of Stop Road Closure Signs outside of the flats and apartments - in the middle of ED Grove where they suffer the weekday and Saturday traffic standstill, may have put them off from visiting to check up on us all.

It appears that TFL is another body unable to consult or do any EqIA, much like Southwark. Guide dogs are trained to understand zebra crossings and these patchwork patterns are dangerous and confusing for them. Yes they look pretty and I personally like them, but it isn't about likes or dislikes - it's about safety.

LTNs also are responsible for the days being longer in June 2021 than in November 2018, I can prove this with some wonderful statistics

Do go look carefully at the 'baseline' - not a proper comparable count as bike counters not in place and also...what year??? Figures from June..latest data shows a drop in cycling.

The data was from June 2021 - before everyone was back in office and the raw data on numbers has not been released. There really is very little validated proof that LTNs have delivered on reducing pollution, car-use, traffic and increases in active travel outside of the year on year slow increase in cycling. If it did work and traffic, pollution and active travel did increase as proven by validated and significant data showing positive change, with no confounding variable such as a PANDEMIC and LOCKDOWN, I would be the first to support. But they do not - traffic and pollution increased on ED Grove and Croxted, LL - slower buses and pollution levels increased. It isn't a difficult concept to understand, unless one's fundamental beliefs are a block to looking at actual evidence. Or one just has a gated road, an increase in house price and doesn't actually care about pollution at all.

I think Mops has said it all really and Rockets succinctly echos the reality. The moralising attitude is misplaced, misjudged and unhelpful when trying to find solutions that work. This is why LTNs are such a poor idea, as Mops say's so eloquently 'there?s capacity abundant for the most privileged in society to make better choices within the existing infrastructure' and especially so when the outcome is the square of shame in one of the wealthiest parts of the UK - all at the expense of lower income families on other roads. These measures do alienate and divide the community, we need solutions that are equitable.

I think this is important - who decides or judges what journey in a car is necessary? Some individuals that still argue that LTNs reduce traffic, even though there is no evidence they do, still keep on going on about 'unnecessary' car journeys. It reminds me of the other debacle over Work Capability Assessments, it has an air of making some false moral judgement on people's driving habits. Provide education, provide public transport, but moralising is just insulting and ableist.

Legal - badly-run consultation seems to describe how Southwark have approached LTNs and building on estates. Even local Labour Councillors are beginning to have concerns about how well the officers of the Council listen and take the views of Southwark residents. Apparently being 'told-off' for meeting with their own Ward residents.

Yes - Nigello, completely agree.

Local drop in car ownership does not equal a drop in traffic and pollution. Cycling levels have already dropped back to pre-lockdown levels. Closed roads will have fewer accidents..who'd have thought? This also quotes the cycling increase in Dulwich that happened over lockdown...and equates this with LTNs...cycling has been gradually increasing across London over the past 5 years, it blipped up during lockdown and had now returned to the previous trajectory. So - how about some valid data please? It says 'research' but reads as an LTN lobby trying to prove that something that they are pushing as THE solution for reducing car use in London works...when there is no actual raw data that supports this 'idea'. (edited to add - graph showing traffic levels also wrong as it conflates a change in how TFL measured traffic from 1993-2010 compared to after 2010 as the change and increase in traffic, in fact it was a change in how TFL measured traffic and flows - this graph keeps getting touted around) So how is the traffic, pollution and idling car situation on Croxted, LL and ED Grove today..how are those LTNs working?

But there is no proof that LTNs 'get some people out of cars' by making journeys longer and increasing idling traffic, Why this is constantly repeated when it is not true amazes me. As the UN states, the best way to reduce car traffic and pollution, and to get people to work is to have an excellent public transport system, so PT in Dulwich ED needs to be reviewed. Active travel in this area is already very high, before LTNs. Local people already choose to walk if they can. Just constantly blaming people for the choices they make really isn't going to solve the problems of pollution and global warming - and neither are LTNs. We need green policies, less reliance on fossil fuels, better public transport that is end-to-end and does not create barriers for people with mobility and visual impairments. LTNs distract from the real solutions and just create pockets of privilege.

There is no evidence that traffic or pollution has decreased due to LTNs in Dulwich and East Dulwich. There is evidence that car use dropped during lockdown across London in all areas. There is no evidence that active travel increased due to LTNs in Dulwich and East Dulwich. There is evidence that local active travel increased during lockdown. There is evidence that pollution and traffic levels on Croxted and ED Grove increased - in some cases by 200% after the LTNs were introduced - at a time of decreased pollution and traffic across London. Cycling levels have now dropped to pre-lockdown figures. If you really want less traffic and less pollution then you would not support LTNs that do not achieve this. If you just want YOUR road to be quiet and gated to traffic at the expense of others, then you support these LTNs. This is pretty clear to 4000+ responders to the consultation.

A cry of 'misogny'? Some women felt gaslighted or trolled when they talked about walking their children to school on a busy road for example. I have read some of the comments from accounts in reply to women who feel that LTNs have negatively impacted their lives, including some rather disgusting comments to Rosamund Kissi Debrah. In light of the current climate, I suggest thinking before posting.

And the triangle of residential roads is not only impacted negatively in terms of pollution, noise and traffic, but buses are soooooo slow. It begs the question - what has Southwark Council got against public transport? Saturday jams right now on ED Grove, horrid out there.

Unfortunately they are professional, organised and skilled thieves. More sophisticated temporary parking solutions are needed. They steal to order...scumbags..

Like motorbike stealing gangs, they tend to have a van and drive around places that are popular to temporary park bikes. Dulwich sports centre will be on their round. I hated parking my motorbike anywhere other than work or home, because they have a really slick team of scumbags - professional thieves and as Duncan so rightly says Scumbags. I do think that places like health centres could offer a secure bike shed? Maybe Southwark could think of funding one when they take over?

Some items or trades need to use vehicles and of course we all really would like these to be cleaner and greener. I echo the post about local businesses and trades absolutely hating coming to ED Grove because of the increased traffic and the lack of parking for trades to pay on the day. I've had plumbers and builders for the past 4 weeks and it has been awful for them.

Trade Union activity is an allowable time off as is Councillor activity, I'm sure it is all covered. Margy...well, a photo op with a rather 'confused' to be polite message.

Well... as you know I doooooo have opinions :), but at least he has a thread unlike Leeming and Marge and as a mild syndicalist and less mild socialist I think having time off for this activity is good......but I still disagree with James about LTNs - he will see the light one day!