JoeLeg

I find it ridiculous that anyone would discriminate on the grounds of age. Two of the hardest working, most reliable members of staff I have are in their late forties and fifties respectively, and put people half their age to shame. I'm glad that they actually seem to enjoy working for us, because they demonstrate perfectly to never judge a book by its cover. On the other hand the most unreliable have been those under the age of 25. Doesn't mean they can't become good staff, but they take a lot more training. It's not true that age is just a number; it's more than that, it's an indicator of experience, patience and understanding, all of which is beyond valuable. I would go in and ask them why your application wasn't considered, people shouldn't be allowed to get away with it if they are doing that, and there's always the chance this is an honest mistake (of which I've been guilty of sometimes).

I don't think it'll be civil unrest, or anything of the sort. Talking about a large swath of the population which now feels entitled to Brexit (leaving aside the fact that they have a widely disparate view of what that actually means), and they're backed vociferously by parts of the media. They aren't going to take a reverse ferret on this lying down. As for the rest of it, I hope you're right, I really do. The viciousness with which I've seen most Leavers behave makes me think otherwise, but I'll hope for your assessment to be more accurate than mine.

That's the crux of it. Those who voted Leave have been so emboldened by what they see as the triumph of their will that I honestly believe to renege on Brexit would be to allow UKIP (and God knows who else) into parliament . Almost every Leave voter I've spoken with (almost) has displayed the opinion that the 48% lost and therefore don't count any more. There seems to be a collective will amongst them to ignore Remainers and label them traitors and fools. Victory has suffused them with a heady sense of destiny and I genuinely think it would be disastrous if they didn't get their Brexit. Of course whatever we get isn't going to please all of them.

Alan Medic Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > In one word,will Brexit happen? Yes. I'd love to embrace the idea that somehow we can turn this around, but it's just not going to be like that. A50 has been triggered, and there's waaaaay too much momentum behind leaving to allow any u-turns now. I don't think it'll bring down the govt, I don't think it'll be stopped. I think it'll be a fudge, and compromise, and I think in the end no one will be really happy with what we get. I hope that, now we're in it, those responsible can make something good of it. But on the evidence so far I'm not convinced. Today again we've got headlines about 'Remainer Universities' (Daily Hate of course) and Rees-Mogg piping up again morning about Carney. The polarisation continues, and that's what scares me most.

Not sure I agree. When politicians give even the impression that they're openly tracking the academic behaviour of people who disagree with them, it sets off alarm bells. I do agree that there are educational establishments which have blotted their copybook where the dissenting view is concerned, but politicians must hold to a higher standard (ha! I'm aware of the irony in that statement). There's already enough polarisation in public debate, we shouldn't be adding fuel to the fire.

They're already saying there won't be a hard border in Ireland; I reckon they'll find a way to make an exception. Like you, I'm not sure how, but seeing as the Tories (not just May) are dependent on the DUP I reckon they'll make it happen.

I don't believe Corbyn would make a good - or even average - PM, I never want to see him in No. 10, but I'm not convinced he's as vicious as you make him out to be. If anything I'd say he's the naive one, it's folk like McDonnell and Milne that I find appalling. Corbyn has spent his life spouting his principles from the back benches, safe in the knowledge that he'd never have to actually deliver or be really tested on his positions. Until now...

red devil > Although I don't agree with it, I can understand > why some might think like that. If we manage to > get a soft Brexit it will be no thanks to the > Brextremists who would rather we walk away with no > deal, yet they will still turn around and say > ''See, Brexit wasn't so bad after all!''... If we get a soft Brexit which doesn't screw this country over I can live with the snotty attitudes of brexiters who feel vindicated. What I don't want is either the hard fridge forcing a hard Brexit, or a moderate compromise deal being reached and the extremists spending years shouting "this was not what we voted for!", which I think is a real possibility.

Well you sound a little more rational than some hardcore remainers I know. I get that it comes from anger and bitterness, and I'd agree that in the months that followed the vote a lot of Leave voters rammed their victory down the throats of remainers and told them to suck on it, which was a pretty short sighted tactic. But we are where we are now, and we need a deal.

malumbu Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I'm struggling to resolve relationships with > friends and family who voted to leave. I'm in a > bubble of remainers but still shocked by > entrenched views outside of this. I try to avoid > the subject in these situations - a recent > discussion was regurgitation of the argument about > taking control yet the underlying issue was > immigration (and essentially this person is a > racist never liking Asian and Caribbean > communities 'taking over' their city in the 60s > and now stretching to Eastern Europeans. I've > heard similar from those in the outer London > Boroughs. I feel that the country is more divided > than it has been for a long time. I have to stop > myself saying 'you want to take control' 'this is > a popular uprising' 'Yet who are you siding with? > The Daily Mail establishment and William chuffing > Rees Mogg' > > The easiest thing is to drop old friends. Which I > have. > https://www.soundhound.com/?t=100504526420030743 > More difficult with family.... I've found similar issues, and it disturbs me because anecdotally - and I say that because what follows is based on nothing more than commentary from the people I know on both sides of the debate - it seems that there is increased willingness from Leave voters to accept a hard Brexit/no deal, and to walk away from the talks, just to teach the EU a lesson. More worryingly, I know a number of Remain voters who want the same outcome (no deal), in order to watch the UK suffer and be able to say "I told you so" later on, which I have to say I find disturbing. In any event, we seem as polarised as we've ever been, and my only hopeful thought is that the govt is playing up the possibility of 'no deal' so that when we do get a deal it'll seem great and we'll all be so relieved that we accept whatever it is, which doesn't seem like a great plan either.

Unfortunately anything printed in the Standard (not matter how accurate) will be rejected out of hand by the Leave brigade, and to be fair Osbourne is using it as hisxpersonal crusade against all those whom he sees as having wronged him.

uncleglen Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > What amazes me is the fact that there were no > proper contingency plans laid down by the EU in > the event that a country that is a net donor to > the EU votes to leave. And there were no contingency plans from the UK for leaving AT ALL. Are you really so stupid as to not see that the EU is under NO obligation at all to make this easy for us? We didn't plan anything easier. Nothing at all! As the days go by the > arrogance and ignorance of the EU Attitudes that are, coincidently, shared by many Leave voters, particularly you. shines through > more and more and just goes to show that a Leave > vote is in the best interests of the UK- even > though the people of the UK benefiting from being > in the 'club' don't like it. A survey just done by the Institute Of Hospitality showed that 93% of restaurants are having trouble recruiting, and the attitude of young UK candidates gives them no optimism for the future. I've been told privately that the NHS is facing similar issues. How should we deal with this? What's your plan? I voted Remain, I lost, you won. So it's up to you to fix this. Seriously, how do we deal with the skills shortage? And before you respond that we should all pay more, please remember that the NHS is paid by our taxes, and staffing hospitality are paid by how much the customer is willing to part with. Are you willing for taxes and prices to rise? Personally I'm ok with it, are you? You all seem to say that low wages are the only reason UK workers don't want low skilled jobs. Talk about having your head in the sand...

Louisa, it WAS a bit dodgier and rougher round here back then (5 laps)! Doesn't mean it wasn't fun...

Or possibly the hardcore fringe of the Tories that controls May know all that, and would prefer the hardest Brexit possible to anything other than a perfect deal. A cliff edge Brexit is still Brexit, so they still get what they want. Personally I think it's all posturing for the medi, and the real talks are going on very secretly far away from prying eyes. We'll get what we're given, and will be told it's a good deal.

red devil Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > JoeLeg Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > > But I don't have to give them the benefit of > the > > doubt. They seem pretty white, male and angry. > > They fit the image of certain groups very > clearly, > > and frankly if it walks like a duck and talks > like > > a duck, I'm inclined to call it a duck. > > That's a form of prejudice joe. We're all guilty > of it though... > > You speak an uncomfortable truth. The only thing I would say in my defence is that I've watched that video posted earlier on this thread and some others (and needed a shower afterwards) and have read the FLA's Facebook page plus others that are supportive of them, and I feel pretty sure of my assessment. They ain't pleasant.

I take what Loz and others are saying, and I think it's an excellent point about this being the payback of a democracy. I certainly agree that earns them the right to demonstrate and publically voice their beliefs. But I don't have to give them the benefit of the doubt. They seem pretty white, male and angry. They fit the image of certain groups very clearly, and frankly if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, I'm inclined to call it a duck. For a group who claim to be against "all forms of extremism", they do a very poor job of putting clear water between themselves and white extremists. I'd go so far as to say they seem focused on a few specific forms of extremism.

uncleglen Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > rendelharris Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > Oh come on robbin, you're far too clever > actually > > to miss the difference. Protesting against > > student grants - possible (though admittedly > slim) > > chance of changing public opinion and/or > > government policy. Protesting against murder > of > > civilians by terrorists - zero chance of > changing > > the terrorists' minds, so what's it for? To > > change the opinion of those millions of people > who > > think terrorist murder is actually a good > thing? > > you answered the first bit about changing public > opinion or government policy as the aim of > marching for student grants....how do YOU know > that is not the aim of the FLA march against > extremism? And you're a teacher? I really hope you never teach my kids, you seem awfully willing to believe the narrative of anyone who will confirm your bigotry.

UG, I'm not defending the far-left - no one here is defending the far left - because they're a pretty despicable bunch of fools (turns out the forums software won't let me say what I really think of them!). But I'm guessing you've gone off your meds again because that's got nothing to do with the FLA, despite your weird attempts to turn it into another rant about people you don't like. Loz, if what I believe about them somehow doesn't turn out to be true I'll be amazed. But I'd be very happy to be proved wrong. So far however the FLA is doing an excellent job of looking like everything that was wrong about supporters in the late 1980's; they grabbed onto anti-IRA sentiment back then, while being violent thugs. Yes, maybe I'm wrong, but I doubt it.

That's the point. The EDL knows it's been widely discredited, and the FLA is its way back in. It's very hard to argue with their core message, allowing them to paint themselves as reasonable. All that goes out the window when you remember this is the EDL by another name. Thin end of the wedge, this is a new tactic by them. They have no intention of stopping there.

uncleglen Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I get the distinct impression that the far left > will go all out to get them banned as there seem > to be links to people from the far right...Diane > Abbott has put her 4 penn'orth in as well. Then > all the other virtue signallers will come out of > the woodwork... Fuck off. It's nothing to do with virtue signalling; this is a direct attempt by the EDL to spread their bigotry by subterfuge. It's a classic example of "if you're not with us you're against us", and they need to be seen for what they are, dangerous throwbacks looking to capitalise on fear. The FLA is not to be taken lightly, they have definate far right links, and just because you hate the far left doesn't mean it's ok to excuse these people. Grow up.

It's the EDL by another name. They think a lot of themselves, and promote the FLA as being a fairly generic anti-extremist outfit. It's not. I suspect (I could be wrong) the reason they've not had as much press as they'd like is that most of the media know it's basically an attempt by the EDL to gain support covertly using football fan networks to spread an apparent message of peace and love that hides a deeper, darker agenda.

To be fair Foxy, although making good points from time to time, does have a track record of complaining about things he has no real understanding of. I do like the way he thinks older people are somehow paying for younger people's mortgages - oh those uppity youngsters, wanting things like their own home, how awful eh?

Nigello Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I think "vibrant" and "diversity" are - by dint of > overuse/misuse - becoming empty words, ones that > people parrot without being able to really > understand them. Culture is everywhere, it just > may not be your cup of tea, or you may not be able > to/fussed to find it. How do you know that those > who are "coming in" are not providing new avenues > for fresh cultural pursuits? Lots happens but we > are not aware of most of it because we simply have > no interest in or knowledge of it. Some good points that provoke thought, but I still disagree with much of your view. However, were moving into the realms of the subjective now and I have no desire to start an argument over differing points of view, to which we are all entitled.

paulu1973 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I'm sick of this gentrification label. It assumes > that the 'rich' move into an area and get rid of > the so called 'soul' of the community. You'll find > a lot of people move into areas because they see a > future and want to be part of the tapestry, yet > the very thing that attracts them they get > ostracised by muppets such as dulwich fox wishing > for the good old days. Stores come and go all the > time...even in the 'good old days' there were > always favourites that close down. > > Rather than just blaming gentrification, why not > shop more in those stores you love There's so much wrong with this post that I don't even know where to start...

Nigello Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > You could argue that the "culture" of Brixton has > disappeared several times over the past century, > so there is no reason why it shouldn't change > again, like SE15/22/23 and all the other 'burbs > that are not already "up there" like SE21. Things > change, money talks, people move around > more....C'est la vie. All of that is true, things like this are part and parcel of the ever-changing nature of conurbations. But sometimes, I hope you'd agree, the culture being lost is a vibrant, entertaining and interesting one; despite its flaws and troubles (and I'm not blind to them by any means) Brixton was always somewhere I felt lucky to live near. What it's being replaced with is somewhat anodyne and frankly dull. Yes, the street crack dealers have gone, and with them the harm they bought, but so has much else. Gentrification is inevitable, there no law against it, and it has tremendous benefits, but I hope in the future we find a better way of doing it. A lot of culture and history has gone.