JoeLeg

Rogla, Thank you for your candour. It matches uncomfortably closely with what the few NHS staff I know are saying. They all feel it's being actively sabotaged to make way for US healthcare companies to come in and make a fortune. As one of them put it, "anyone who believes their taxes will go down when they have to buy a medical insurance plan is a fool".

To where, exactly? Cute little sound bites are all very well - and you're excellent at them - but I'm genuinely interested to know where you think workshy benefit scrounges should go, as well as how we determine who is a workshy benefit scrounger (preferably no more private companies making money from telling disabled people they're able to work)? Shipping out the dead wood certainly has something to it, but what happens to the communities they get sent to? Doesn't that just exacerbate the issues small towns have been facing with immigration for years? How does dumping large numbers of unemployed on them help? Or do we create tent cities? Our own Calais jungle down on Dartmoor? Or do you only mean non-UK passport holders? Do you believe once they're gone the job market will stabilise? It's certainly possible, but with every passing year I become less and less enamoured of Young British workers; indeed I'm probably about to fire one this week who simply seems to lack a work ethic - and he's not even an idiot, he just doesn't get it - and it's likely he'll be replaced by the EU citizen who already works for me, wants to be promoted and has shown he can do the job. There's nowhere near enough housing in London, nowhere near enough doctors or infrastructure, not enough good schools and teachers and libraries, it's harder and harder and more expensive to live here. Is simply dumping people out past zone 6 the answer? Should we define what's needed for people to have the right to live here? A job? Paying taxes? Contributing to society? You know, if I thought the idea would work I'd honestly be behind it, but the problem of the workshy on benefits (and I'd be really interested to see a social/ethnic breakdown of who that is, a proper one, not some assumptions), is that they need to be forced to get jobs, so we can tax them and get more money for the state and more private enterprise going. A Soviet-style rejection of anyone who doesn't measure up to an arbitrary standard has never worked and never will.

Oh stringy's already made that plain! I do love the way they think good old Tony should be singled out for being a total wanker (which he is), but somehow I suspect good old Gove, Johnson and the others are ok. I love a good double standard. The problem is that Blair is massively tainted goods, but that doesn't stop him from raising valid points. However I'm not sure he's he person to do it. Many people will dismiss him out of hand, understandably.

DulwichFox Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > JoeLeg Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > titch juicy Wrote: > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > > ----- > > > I'm still trying to work out why VAT was > > brought > > > up in the first place. > > > > > > Because Foxy likes to spout nonsense about an > > industry he thinks he understands and really > > doesn't, and I can't stop myself pointing out > when > > he's talking rubbish, because it really annoys > me > > when people make out like we're all trying to > rip > > customers off and get filthy rich. > > What Utter Nonsence.. I don't give a Hoot what > people charge for their services. You have previous made comments to the effect that you believe restaurant owners make a lot of profit personally. I know because I called you out on it then. You have previous for pontificating on the food industry and getting called out on it, like the time you accused the hog roast stall on the market of being unsanitary, made a bunch of related comments, and someone came on here and dismantles your argument in detail. > My only concern is there are places left that I > can still aford to eat in.. and yes, I need to > look at a menu > in the window before entering. Not the 'If you > need to ask the price, then you probably cannot > afford it atttitude' > Then maybe recognise that nowhere will be subsequently adding VAT to your bill, and as been pointed out cannot legally do so. This is an example of how you were categorically wrong about something. And as I say, enjoy those restaurants while you can. > From your comments here and previous comments, you > appear to be in the catering / restaurant > business. > Perhaps you could eludidate.. > Well, I've been a professional chef since the 1990's, spending the whole time in London, and my CV has the word Michelin in it but I've never changed a tyre in my life. So yes, I know quite a lot about the gritty details of the industry and get very annoyed when others act like we make huge amounts of money or purposefully rip people off. And a number of your posts over the years have done just that. > DulwichFox

titch juicy Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I'm still trying to work out why VAT was brought > up in the first place. Because Foxy likes to spout nonsense about an industry he thinks he understands and really doesn't, and I can't stop myself pointing out when he's talking rubbish, because it really annoys me when people make out like we're all trying to rip customers off and get filthy rich.

Penguin68 I'm not quite sure what point you're trying to make with your final sentence, but I will agree that there are some appalling operators out there who use service charge to pay wages, Michel Roux Jnr being the latest culprit to be caught out. There is no law against it, although there should be (indeed my own personal view is that service charge should be illegal, though that opens up a can of worms of how much we would actually have to charge for the food and drink). It is a Gordion knot of a problem. Hospitality is in general a badly paid industry, and service charge is a divisive issue. Where I work the owners admirable not only pay above minimum wage but also operate the tronc system whereby every penny of service charge is given to the staff, both kitchen and floor. But we thus have an horrendous wage bill, which is a constant concern. Our customers are very happy, but we have to watch the bottom line like a hawk. However, good staff are not cheap, not should they be. But if we abolished service charge we would have to put prices up by a corresponding amount. So are we perpetuating a broken system by not doing so? Yes, of course we are. Would the public tolerate higher prices for food and drink I return for no service charge? We aren't sure yet.

No restaurant I have ever worked in - and I've been everywhere from a local ED place to Michelin kitchens - has ever put prices on the menu without VAT. The VAT has always been included in the price - we do our P+L calculations after removing 20% of what we take and giving it to HMRC. It may not be illegal but it's unethical. I wouldn't work somewhere that did it. As for "service charge and then feeling obliged to leave a tip" - if you've paid service charge (which you are under no legal obligation to pay, and anywhere that pressures you should be boycotted), then why are you feeling obliged to leave a tip? Typical nonsense from Foxy where the restaurant industry is concerned, but then it's hardly the first time he's demonstrated his total lack of understanding regarding how much money we take off people, what we do with it, and how much profit we make (much less tha he thinks, is the answer by the way. Much less.) And if you think eating out is expensive now, just wait. Between increases in rents, shocking increase in business rates, and uncertainty over the future, the whole industry is frankly shitting itself. Latest (worst case admittedly) estimates are that up to 40% of London restaurants will close. I'd enjoy these places while you can and continue to use them. Otherwise they're doomed. Unless you listen to Foxy, who thinks we make massive profits and gouge customers all the time.

I'm not sorry about it. Ice tried, I've really tried for months now. Once the initial shock wore off, I accepted the result, and started to look to the future. And anytime I've pointed out how things could go wrong I was told I'm talking down Britain, that I should get behind it all, that we have to work together. I'm so fed up of being asked to display this blind faith that our government will deliver a deal which is better for England and to not question anything! Why can't I question if? Why does voting Remain mean that I'm not allowed to be part of what happens now? So when I see someone saying that MP's shouldn't vote against Art. 50, despite their constituency voting to Remain, I get really angry. We're being asked to pretend that we never felt how we did, to abandon values we hold dear. I can live in a country which moves in a different direction to the one I asked for - that's part of democracy - but don't ask me to shut up and stop questioning things. Don't call judges enemies of the people. Don't tell us the will of the people is being ignored - because it isn't. I've had enough. If people want to continue telling me my opinion doesn't count, then I will continue to tell them they are stupid when they say stupid things. Who the hell do you all think we clean hospitals and offices, pick fruit and veg, wash dishes and sweep streets? Because young, white, British people too often (not always) don't want those jobs. And soon we won't be able to blame the EU for our problems and we'll have to ask ourselves some hard questions about who we are. I'd rather ask those questions now. So how about some Brexit supporters stop slapping us down as soon as we open our mouths and start listening to our concerns? Also, you want the first use of the word stupid? It's right here, from Stringvest... " If remain had won, would all the leavers be kicking up such a fuss and saying its not fair? Do it again? Best of 3 .. STUPIDITY." Well, two points. Firstly Nigel Farage openly stated that a 52% victory for Remain would not be enough, that it "would not be over". So yes, there's s prominent leave voter right there would not have accepted a Remain win under identical conditions to the Leave win that occurred. Also, no, I don't believe for one moment that Leave voters would have shut up and gone quietly into the night. And not should they have. They are allowed to fight for what they believe in, as are we all.

I would love for you to be right, but I'm afraid I'm extremely sceptical that food prices will ever come back down meaningfully. There is simply now where near enough truthful discussion about how much it costs farmers in this country to operate. Costs of production are lower elsewhere, but why would they charge us less than we've already been paying. We're dependant on imports for food - they know that. I will be very happy to be proven wrong, and make humble pie with cheaper ingredients.

Jaywalker, not sure if you're responding to me or someone else, but let me say this. The fact that Brexit hasn't occurred yet really is important in this context, because if we're purely discussing food prices then it's important to remember that we're still at the mercy of the same issues as everyone else. The only exception to this is the drastic fluctuation in the pound since the referendum, and that's a seperate issue. Sterling might slowly recover over time, or it might not, who knows? But long term effects of us leaving the EU are unknown right now because it hasn't happened. The points you make - pressure on wages, will immigration change and so on - are very real concerns but not part of the current discussion; they may well be relevant in two or more years time of course, and let's not forget the concerns of farmers in the UK who are dependant on subsidies (as are the consumers who then buy their artificially low-prices food which in no way reflects the actual cost of production to the farmer), and who are worried that the government, despite what they say, will not in the long term help them survive post-exit. But right now, today, the issues surrounding the price of food have far more to do with the fact that food inflation is irresistible. There's too many of us, on a global scale the food is too unequally distributed, there's waaaay too much food waste and a lot of people in the first world just don't want to pay much for food. It's been rising in price inexorably since the year 2000, which was when the cost of food in relation to people's wage was at its cheapest. And it will rise further. The fact that this is a global issue should some demonstrate that Brexit (currently) has very little to do with it. Now of course that may change, depending on what deal we get. But the issues are so complex (and partisan) that I suspect it will be impossible to unpick the coming Gordian knot of competing concerns between consumers, suppliers and producers/farmers. I for one am very worried.

Ok, I'll say it publically then. Stringvest, I think you're a stupid idiot who doesn't see the long term damage that may happen to us. Enjoy the NHS while it last, May is about to sell it to the Americans. I've got no problems telling people that - Lord knows anyone who voted Remain has spent months being berated and attacked. I've tried to debate, I've accepted the result, I know what's going to happen, and I'm even open to the possibility that this might, somehow, turn out okay. But still I'm told, constantly, that my opinion counts for nothing, that if I question even a little bit, if I points out potential pitfalls or in anyway criticise the Brexit process then I'm an enemy of the people, an enemy of democracy, I'm trying to obstruct is leaving. I'm doing nothing of the sort! I live in a democracy and I voted Remain and I accept the result because that's part of the price I pay for living in a democracy. But I am still allowed to have my view, I'm allowed to say it, and if I think someone is a stupid idiot then I can tell them. And they can respond to me and that's allowed too! So yes, I called you an idiot. I did it privately, but I don't care if you feel the need to share it. I stand by my opinion. As are, I might point out, Members of Parliament who represent the constituents. As I said to you in the PM, Remain- supporting MP's from Leave constituencies have respected the will of their supporters - why is that ok but not the other way around? Hypocrisy of the highest order. There are tremendous dangers ahead in the exit process, huge potential pitfalls await us and I have no faith in anyone currently in politics is able to guide us through what a narrow majority just committed everyone to. Uncle Glen? You're just a coward, happy to drop in on threads and tell people you disagree with that they're stupid and out of touch, but you've never once actually engaged in a discussion. You just make your repetitive point and the bugger off again. I'll care about what you think the day you actually involve yourself in some kind of debate rather than trolling from the sidelines.

Brexit hasn't happened yet, so it hasn't affected prices. I know this may sound like a trite or obvious point, but it's an important one. Market volatility in the wake of the referendum resulted in a fall in sterling against the euro, and the direct result of that is if you purchase your products in euro's but book your profits in sterling then tou need to find what was at one point another 20% just to be standing still. Suppliers I work with in that position all put prices up in the autumn - they had no choice. Those who purchase only in sterling are unaffected. No one knows what will happen in between now and Brexit - ask five economists and you'll get six different answers - but until then, currency exchange issues aside, we face the same problems as anyone else in Europe. So the real question is what will happen after we exit? We've been eating food that's not priced at a fair reflection of the cost of production for a long time; the government won't want visuals of queues for bread and milk so they'll do anything to reach a deal which has a little impact on food prices as possible. I have no solid idea what's going to happen, and nor does anyone else. What I believe is that food prices will continue to rise, and that it would happen no matter what's going on with Brexit, and that it will be impossible to work out how much effect Brexit actually has on it. Because for years - decades even - the public hasn't wanted to know how much a pint of milk or a loaf of bread actually costs. Marco Pierre White berated people for saying that chickens shouldn't be as cheap as ?5, because - he said - why shouldn't a poor family be entitled to buy a chicken at that price? But he knows, everyone knows, you can't grow a chicken at that price unless you're a massive agri-business, of the type that's rapidly putting small farmers out of business. So it becomes a conversation about how you want to feed the population? Food pricing is a horribly tricky discussion which most people ignore. We won't be able to ignore it much longer, and Brexit has very little to do with it.

Townleygreen Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > It seems to me that at some point in the next year > Theresa May is going to have to appear on TV (or > in Parliament?) and explain in words of few > syllables why Brexit is simply not going to happen > because it is a totally bad idea, giving several > good clear reasons why this is the case. The > Japanese case for their companies investments here > is just the latest example. > She will need to wait until the evidence is pretty > overwhelming. > Farridge will no doubt have an apoplectic fit but > that will be the truth. I wish I could agree with you, and would be happy to be wrong. But I think May will press ahead with Article 50 at some point next year. We're going to get a fudge that pleases no one; she's already knocked back the points-based immigration system, and I think whatever we end up with will be decried by most Leave voters as "not what I voted for", one way or another.

rendelharris Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > uncleglen Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > You people are as bad as Anjem Choudary, and > > trying to negate the democratic process is not > > measured and reasonable Loz > > You do love a bit of name calling, don't you > uncle? A couple of weeks ago the left were all > Nazis, now we're all like Muslim hate preachers. > And how is Loz's "Let's show politicians we don't > like their message" trying to negate the > democratic process? Of course he does, it's better than actually engaging in debate with people. You ask him a direct question and he ignores it, preferring to show up in a thread and chuck comments like that in. It all feeds his deeply-rooted sense of superiority, which is ironic given what he thinks of people who disagree with him. He hasn't got any actual points to make, he just likes being abusive.

aerie Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > It would only take you a moment to read through > and edit your posts to include punctuation, > pauses, as there is 'room to improve' or to quote > my erstwhile school reports : 'could do better' as > what you do write is unreadable. So someone wrote something in a manner you didn't like? Wow, glad you're around to point out to people how they're doing things wrong. You must be a joy to party with...

red devil Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Joe, can you quantify 'large number', and how many > of them were Remainers?... Well now there's an excellent counterpoint. No, I can't. What I will say is that I noticed, in the immediate period after the referendum, at least ten MP's openly stating on blogs and in interviews that they would not be willing to vote against a referendum. While I agree that my language was anecdotal at best, I would also argue that very few MP's are likely to take the chance in voting against it. In order to do so you would have to be very, very sure that you're constituency was solid Remain, and that you wouldn't be challenged by any candidate riding a populist message of "respect the will of the people!". So, in answer, no, I can't back a lot of that up because I can't remember where I read most of them. But I think the point still stands.

May is running the "Brexit means Brexit" line heavily, and a large number of MP's have already said they won't vote against it. They know they'd get decimated at the GE. They won't even waste time putting it to a vote, I reckon. (Edit - Although it would give Corbyn the chance to vote for Brexit, like he always wanted to!)

The wobbles experienced by the UK in the immediate aftermath were dealt with by Mark Carney, and have thankfully passed. The question of course is what comes next. It really is early days, and I don't think Brexit itself will cause any more economic shocks on its own - there's too much at stake for the government to allow that - but I do think that we're in for a fairly tumultuous ride as those in power work out what they actually want to do, and the Leave voters start to understand what their vote is going to ultimately end up translating into. There are so many complex issues at stake that I think some of them are going to end up disappointed that Brexit doesn't mean what they thought it would mean. I think it's almost inevitable in an issue so complicated - which was reduced down to such oversimplicity during the campaign (which I hold both sides responsible for) - that there will be voters who feel they didn't get what they want. Now that we're commited to it, I'm honestly most concerned over the issues of immigration and the single market. If the EU decides to dig in over that this will get messy. This is a really complex issue which was turned into sound bites and emotions in order to swing votes either way; now we have to figure out what it will actually mean.

Blah Blah Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > It's also why May has appointed three fervent > Brexiters to now negotiate the deal they promised > they could deliver. A very smart move by her. If they deliver the government as a whole takes the credit. If they fail she throws them under a bus. And they know it. The problem right now is that even those three can't agree on what Brexit should mean, and how the responsibilities should get divided up. That's why I'm not convinced by Leave voters who think this is a done deal. A long way from it.

Uncleglen, please don't act like the Leave campaign would've behaved any differently if it had lost. You would've shouted just as loudly, complained just as much, and been just as angry. And that would've been your right, because we live in a society where we get to vote and then complain about the outcome if we don't like it. It may not change it but we can still say it. Certainly you say what you don't like all the time! You and Foxy voted to Leave and you won. But I wonder if what comes out the other end will match what you hoped to achieve. Certainly my experience since the vote is that Leave voters want many different things from Brexit, some of which are mutually incompatible. I predict difficult times ahead, and many attempts by the government to try and please everyone, which will end up pleasing no one. The Leave campaign was never able to tell us what Brexit would actually mean. They're all down at Chequers now trying to start and work it out. That says to me that we've leaped before we've looked. Not smart.

Too little, too late. I may not want an M+S personally, but I think they're going to kick the Co-op's backside, and frankly that's a good thing. Budgens, while it's been mentioned, are usually a franchise as I understand it. They can be good or bad. The one in Crofton Park is fantastic, well stocked and professionally run (IMO). Others, not so great.

titch juicy Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > It's so frustrating that all chippy's can't get it > right. It can't be rocket science- there are only > so many variables (type of potato, type of oil, > temperature of oil, number of different > oils/temps, number of times frying in each for a > certain time in each). Yes, it is pretty simple. Where it breaks down - like so much else in life - is when people try to cut costs. Using the same oil too often. Refrying chips. Worst of all, using cheaper potatoes that will not make a decent chip no matter what you do. I'd say these three are the worst culprits, responsible for most of the bad chips out there.

Corbyn will win. Momentum, O'Donnell and of course Corbyn himself will claim a great victory for ordinary members - and they're right of course. Labour Party members are about to get the leader they want. But just as it's often said we get the governments we deserve, so Labour is going to get the leadership it deserves. I've said it before and I'll say it again; Corbyn is unelectable in a GE, and anyone who thinks otherwise is kidding themselves. I know they fervently believe in a better future, and that we can have a fairer society. So do I. But Corbyn is unable to be an effective leader of an opposition party, and would make a disastrous PM. He's just not up to the job. He's seen as hard left, which alienates those centrist voters that got Labour elected under Blair. Now people always attack Blair (and I agree there's a lot to reasonably attack), but hey neatly forget that he got Labour elected. I can't see how Corbyn intends to get Labour into power without those votes. Who does he think he's appealing to? In order to win he needs to take votes off other parties. How exactly will he do that?

When Fullers want to move they'll move at the pace they want. They don't like being dictated to. Property guardians can be asked to move on with very little notice - part and parcel of doing that. I also suspect DE would like this dealt with fast, they've had too much negative publicity in Herne Hill over the last couple of years, and I reckon they'd like to be able to point to this as a success.

Not sure what planning consent has or hasn't been secured, but given that it's Fullers I doubt they'll be moving of hey haven't gotten what they wanted. A guy called Matt Dutson, spent the last 7 years at the Masons Arms in Battersea. He's not bad, for a Saints fan.