Lordship 516

fiddle

Seabag Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Lordship 516 Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > @Seabag > > > > ...always happy to receive 0 points from you. > > > You say 'happy' but do I detect a little bit of > 'prickly' Mr 516? > > Ok I'll give you a +1, is that better ? ...nope...when I say I'm happy, then I mean happy..

@Seabag ...always happy to receive 0 points from you.

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I got the notion of it being a joke but it was a pointed barb ...lacked any humour for me....

Seabag Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > jaywalker Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > womanofdulwich Wrote: > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > > ----- > > > Haven't we all made mistakes? > > > I don't mean murder, but as we get older and > > > worldlier don't we all realise we treated > > people > > > badly/misinterpreted others actions? > > > I would not make the mistakes again-but I am > > > guilty - the list is long... > > > > The sentiment is admirable. But who have you > > installed in the tribunal of your own reason to > > find yourself guilty? Did you think that this > > phantasm was of your own devising? > > You're single, right? Why the snide attack on the person..?

@ Otta A Chara, [my friend] Thank you also for your kind comments. ...you can see - dialogue, even if a little disagreeable, is helpful for understanding for everyone. It will make for a better world where friends can differ but also share Go raibh m?le maith agat [Thank you very much]

Should be done about ?100 or even less. The Chinese version will always take precedence there [as English does here] For Chinese employment law see http://uk.practicallaw.com/1-503-3245#a752832 My wife is out of the house until the afternoon. I will ask her to check the contact details when she returns

The local takeaway won't be able to translate as their language is generally Cantonese. Although the characters are more or less the same, there are some important differences so you need a Mandarin translator. I have had to get certified translations before - I will dig the source out and let yo know their address in Central London - not very expensive. How many pages?

@ JoeLeg Appreciate your candour & much of it coincides with feedback I have received from friends in the army. Thanks for that

@Alan Medic ...see PM

@ Mick Mac MM - I understand where you come from. I rarely enter the public domain on this subject as there are few either in the Uk or Ireland that could understand my view. In the UK they feel I am biased towards the republicans Sinn Fein/IRA side. In Ireland they think I am too hard on the republican attitude. I regard McGuiness as a patriot & a great man - if you want to stop a runaway horse you have to run a long way with its direction of travel before you can turn it around - he did that. I don't have the same regard for Adams though I acknowledge his political prowess; he outpaced the British & Loyalists at every step over the last 40 years. The peace would not have been possible without Albert Reynolds who was uniquely placed through many years of operating dance halls all over Ireland [inc NI] & through his cat & dog food business. One of the people who supplied him with cans was a Paisley DUP Loyalist that bridged his way to Paisley & hosted the first meeting in a back room of his factory. Reynolds regularly went AWOL from his special branch minders to have secret meetings all over NI. He is characterized as a bit of a huckster [which he was] but people who mattered trusted his word & he delivered.Without his personal contacts & reputation as a straight dealer no one would have come to the table. He also convinced Clinton to leverage his influence that clinched the deal with the Irish Americans. John Major was a brave man who rose above the political fray & risked his political career to insist that the Good Friday Agreement was pushed through regardless of threats of loss of the Unionist MPs votes.. Last but not least was Paisley who did suffer the end of his career but to a good cause - he changed also in the interests of peace & delivered in tandem with McGuiness. Blair & Ahern were merely carriers of the final message - important but the main work was done before they arrived at the table. They made a lot of noise & PR fluff but that was the nature of the beasts. We have peace - history will tell the real story in time.

Apologies to all - I didn't intend to personalize the thread - I just wanted to put some of the issues, timelines & attitudes in context.. I have no pain...nor did I need to recover from any personal trauma...but I know many who do.. For people who are suffering - you don't have to drool sympathy. Sometimes it is sufficient to pat their shoulder & make them a cup of tea & sit with them in silence or talk rubbish about rugby or whatever. Empathy comes in many formats.

Loz Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Lordship 516 Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > Loz Wrote: > > > > > I'd happily own up to 3b. And not being > British > > > or Irish, that's a view from a relative > neutral. > > > > Unfortunately I have to say, also relatively > uninformed. You watched nothing from the other > > side of the planet - you probably saw selected > snippets & read carefully sanitized bits & pieces > > in the Murdoch & Black dominated press that > served their Wall Street & other money centre > masters > > well. > > Please don't try to tell my what my information > sources are - either now or 30-40 years ago. I > actually come from an area where Murdoch did not > tread, so you just don't know anything about me. > Guessing doesn't work. Whether you knew it or not, it was mainly regurgitated shit generated by the indigenous press barons that were pumping out the British government propaganda that fed your news...they have been doing for aeons; the names change but the ethos is the same - support the establishment money centre view. > And please give up with the Occupy 101 horsecrap. > You generally ruin some otherwise good points > every time you wallow in it. B*llix to this nonsense - I don't give a toss if the Americans know or don't know; this is just some concept thrash that is transcended by many hundreds of years of abuse by the British in Ireland. Not wallowing - just acknowledge the realpolitik that we were subjected to. It's what drew me to economics from UCD to LSE to MIT to Fudan University > But, yes, maybe it does make me relatively > uniformed. But also untainted and unbiased. > > I grew up in Ireland in those times. > > Great, in a way. That makes you very informed, > but also deeply unneutral I had many chances & invitations to be involved both politically & in the IRA but maintained my independence; I avoided the political parties like the plague & worked through to what I always hope is a civilized world view but of course also remembering where I come from. I was born to a deeply catholic family but although educated in a monastery school remained untouched by religion of any sort - though I do believe in God, but also avoided religion. > So, informed or unbiased? Which is better? Well > that's a matter of opinion, I suppose. We'll > probably agree to disagree on that one. I am happy where I am & happy for you where you are also. > > The people directly affected on both sides > cannot forget but they can forgive or at least > ignore it and bear > > the scars silently so the next generation can > grow in hope for a better shared future. It takes > time & we > > all have to share the burden of recovery. > > I think I read once there is a memorial in > Hiroshima that says, "Forgive, but never forget". > Seems apt here as well. > > > Telling someone to move on is just stupid > so-called new age crap - telling them you > > understand their pain is civilized and helps the > healing process. > > I don't actually recall telling you to move on. I never said or implied that YOU said that - it's the crap that much of society trot out to people that have been traumatized - like as if they are suffering from a broken nail or burned their hand on the oven. I watched my father grieve silently every day for his brother with good humour but we all knew his anguish - it lasted for 50 years to the day he died but he never said one word except to say a prayer for him every night - in Gaelic. For the dispossessed whether they are in Ireland, Syria or Palestine or Iraq, they have to find their own way out of the blackness that they find themselves in. I have been lucky - I avoided direct involvement; It is my hope I can help people who haven't been so lucky where & when I can.

TE44 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Lordship 516, I hope for peace to continue and > hope you and all those who suffered through these > times, find peace. Thank you for that. Personally I have peace and also for my family. But for others on both sides I try to help by understanding their loss & giving support & comfort. We need to do the same for all in society, of all colours & creeds regarfless of their beliefs. Tolerance, genuine tolerance for all will lead to a better life.

uncleglen Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I wonder why Blair converted to catholicism- I > thought people got older and wiser.... Follow the money...

Loz Wrote: > I'd happily own up to 3b. And not being British > or Irish, that's a view from a relative neutral. Unfortunately I have to say, also relatively uninformed. You watched nothing from the other side of the planet - you probably saw selected snippets & read carefully sanitized bits & pieces in the Murdoch & Black dominated press that served their Wall Street & other money centre masters well. I grew up in Ireland in those times. My uncle [aged 9] was shot by the Black & Tans in 1919 whilst he was collecting water from a spring well - target practice & a great day out from psycho-maniac murderers released from the British army & given license by Lloyd George, Churchill & co to terrorize & subdue the Irish. I was a student on the NICRA March on 4th January 1969 [it was a Saturday so students from all over Ireland joined in] when the Paisley & Bunting thugs stoned & beat us with cudgels at Burntullet Bridge whilst the civilian police looked on, laughing & nudging each other at our distress. I watched the British Embassy in Dublin burn down on 2nd February 1972 & felt the heat as it burned. There was only a little rain & no baton charge [as reported in British newspapers]. In fact the Garda? had instructions not to hinder the protesters [who were all well behaved but annoyed as a group] & cleared a path for the petrol bombers to get a good run through a gate in Merrion Square to throw the petrol bombs. It was a good decision by the Irish Government as it assuaged the public outcry - the Irish paid the bill. The crowd cleared away without trouble - the Garda? merely urged everybody to go home to dinner "C'mon lads, its over - we all have to go home to dinner" etc... I was crossing O'Connell Bridge on 20th January 1973 [another Saturday] on my way to buy a present for my brother's birthday when the Sackville Place bomb went off and saw the roof of the car flying a couple of hundred feet in the air. I witnessed the walking wounded from that explosion - it wasn't pleasant. I have lost family & friends & watched the silent maimed people who survived Loyalist attacks - this was before & after the IRA ever came into being. We had hundreds of years of that shit all in the name of profit for the worshipfull companies of London & their barons - hopefully it's over. I just don't want to see or hear about this awfulness again or get phone calls from distraught people asking for help for their maimed friends & relatives. I have no personal bitterness towards English people or NI people & only wish everyone peace & freedom to live their life in a manner suitable to them. The people directly affected on both sides cannot forget but they can forgive or at least ignore it and bear the scars silently so the next generation can grow in hope for a better shared future. It takes time & we all have to share the burden of recovery. Telling someone to move on is just stupid so-called new age crap - telling them you understand their pain is civilized and helps the healing process.

Loz Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Nice piece of cut and paste, but it does not back > up your assertion that the British Army were > involved in that particular bomb. I suppose this counts for nothing.... The 2009 book Killing For Britain, written by former UVF member 'John Black', claimed that the British undercover unit known as the Military Reaction Force or Military Reconnaissance Force (MRF) organized the bombing [of McGurks Bar]and helped the bombers get in and out of the area. ...plus there is an ongoing enquiry by the Ombudsman due to more evidence becoming available late last year. On almost every occasion these enquiries have evolved to somehow exonerate the brutality of the British Army [Widgery, Scarman ++++++++] dragging time out whilst everyone gets their stories straight in the whitewashing process. The republican population welcomed the British Army but once ensconced within the cities the army turned on the unarmed civilians & colluded with the Loyalist animals. They reaped the whirlwind that followed. There was no justice available to non-Loyalist citizens & it is still suspect in regard to atrocities & miscarriages of justice. The Governments lie, the army lies, the police lie...all were & are at fault. Farrar-Hockley reckoned that the IRA had about 3,000 operatives available but only used about 700 at any time - these kept 30,000 army & police occupied until the British Government finally saw the sense of negotiating a peace. What we all need to do is simply remember the lesson of unfairness & injustice.

...all the non-Protestant people, Catholic & others wanted was a reasonable chance of a decent life. It was not only denied them but the so-called Loyalists created an environment of hate & mayhem that removed all hope from non-Loyalists. They opposed normal civil rights that the rest of Britain took for granted and this gave birth to the awful carnage that followed. Its over & hopefully the lessons can be a good lesson about what hate & division can do to any society.

Loz Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Lordship 516 Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > Unfortunately history tells us that the car bomb > was devised & deployed first by the Loyalist > side, > > provided with the necessary materials from > British Army supplies... > > > > 4 December 1971 - McGurk's Bar bombing > > Did you make the bit in bold up?? From 1971 to 1973, a secret British Army unit, the Military Reaction Force (MRF), carried out undercover operations in Belfast. It killed and wounded a number of unarmed Catholic civilians in drive-by shootings. The British Army initially claimed the civilians had been armed, but no evidence was found to support that. Former MRF members later admitted that the unit shot unarmed people without warning, both IRA members and civilians. One member said, "We were not there to act like an army unit, we were there to act like a terror group". At first, many of the drive-by shootings were blamed on Protestant loyalists. The 2009 book Killing For Britain, written by former UVF member 'John Black', claimed that the British undercover unit known as the Military Reaction Force or Military Reconnaissance Force (MRF) organized the bombing [of McGurks Bar]and helped the bombers get in and out of the area. The Army's locally-recruited Ulster Defence Regiment (UDR) was almost wholly Protestant. Despite the vetting process, loyalist militants managed to enlist; mainly to obtain weapons, training and intelligence. A 1973 British Government document (uncovered in 2004), "Subversion in the UDR", suggested that 5?15% of UDR soldiers then were members of loyalist paramilitaries. The report said the UDR was the main source of weapons for those groups, although by 1973 weapons losses had dropped significantly, partly due to stricter controls. By 1990, at least 197 UDR soldiers had been convicted of loyalist terrorist offences and other serious crimes including bombings, kidnappings and assaults. In 1977, the Army investigated a UDR battalion based at Girdwood Barracks, Belfast. The investigation found that 70 soldiers had links to the Ulster Volunteer Force (UVF), that thirty soldiers had fraudulently diverted up to ?47,000 to the UVF, and that UVF members socialized with soldiers in their mess. Following this, two soldiers were dismissed on security grounds. The investigation was halted after a senior officer claimed it was harming morale. Details of it were uncovered in 2011. During the 1970s, the Glenanne gang ? a secret alliance of loyalist militants, British soldiers and RUC officers?carried out a string of attacks against Catholics in an area of Northern Ireland known as the "murder triangle". It also carried out some attacks in the Republic. 'Lethal Allies: British Collusion in Ireland' claims the group killed about 120 people, almost all of whom were reportedly uninvolved Catholic civilians. The Cassel Report investigated 76 murders attributed to the group and found evidence that soldiers and policemen were involved in 74 of those. One member, RUC officer John Weir, claimed his superiors knew of the collusion but allowed it to continue. The Cassel Report also said some senior officers knew of the crimes but did nothing to prevent, investigate or punish. Attacks attributed to the group include the Dublin and Monaghan bombings (1974), the Miami Showband killings (1975) and the Reavey and O'Dowd killings (1976) ....and much much more.

rahrahrah Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > You compare and contrast McGuinesses failure to > express regret to that of the British state. The > implication is that the failure of one party > somehow mitigates the failure of the other. I > would say that actually, both are failures. Nothing ever mitigates violence of any party against another; nor does their failure to express regret & apologize excuse another violent act. McGuinness opted for peace and was commended by his previously implacable enemies - Iain Paisley & Peter Robinson - for his commitment to peace. it is my view that McGuiness regarded the whole process as a 'work in progress' & that he avoided making any comment until he could be sure that the peace would endure & the opposing sides would not renege on their promises. Indeed, as his last political act, he brought down the NI government because of the Unionists going back on some of their promises as well as their corrupt use of public funds. There have been many false dawns in Ireland, mainly punctured by the duplicity of successive British governments. There will be a time for expressing regret & making reconciliation; for now it is enough that the killings have stopped.

rahrahrah Wrote: > > The British state behaved terribly and took 200 > years to express regret. Is that then the standard > we hold others to? ...your point?

Jeremy Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > DulwichFox Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > What exactly is the problem with fake coins ? > > Off the top of my head.. the businesses that take > them may be unable to pay them into the bank. > Reduces the government's power to money supply and > therefore inflation. And also, what dodgy > activities the proceeds might be funding... Just a little bit of privatized QE & an expanded money supply that directly reduces the cost of borrowing..

rahrahrah Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > That's a mainly accurate account Lordship, but it > overstates one point.. that McGuiness used > 'necessary violence' - I think often the IRA used > quite unnecessary levels of violence against the > civilian populations and their own people. If you care to read what I wrote you will see I actually wrote carefully & deliberately... "what he considered necessary violence" - as he was quoted to have said on a number of occasions. On your point of expressing regret for victims...it took over 200 years for the British Government to express regret for their shameful behaviour in regard to the Great Famine...and over 40 years to apologize for the murders by the brave 1st Para on Bloody Sunday 1972... It takes time to heal. Just let's be happy the violence has diminished and we can be neighbours at peace.

steveo Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Here we go again > > None of which justifies car bombs Unfortunately history tells us that the car bomb was devised & deployed first by the Loyalist side, provided with the necessary materials from British Army supplies... 4 December 1971 - McGurk's Bar bombing - 15 civilians were killed and 17 injured by a Ulster Volunteer Force (UVF) bomb attack on a Catholic bar in Belfast. ...and you are right - none of the car bombs were justified. Its over now & hopefully won't come back. McGuinness helped to put all that behind us.