Kingsbury David

I've been posting the same things everywhere who have raised this issue. Allowing a failed state/s was part of the original plan, and Greece and others similar have been used to sacrifice the people for the greater integration which will be offered as the only solution for the deliberate problem created when Greece was allowed in when guaranteed to fail. This is the first test of the system, and considering it is not chaotic or unexpected then presumably neither will the outcome be. The welfare of the Greek people has been sacrificed to strengthen the EU and another unwanted move towards full integration. Ignore the media, if they really left the whole system governing the world (ie the UN/EU and all those behind them) will no longer be omnipotent, which currently I believe they are, although with the internet once enough people learn their methods will no longer be. But currently that is a long way off. The Commission make the rules, the parliament discuss and approve them, and we pay. The Euro itself allows those in charge (ie the Germans) to reduce their currency to vastly increase exports, and thus win the war despite appearing to lose it. If allowed to continue their and the French power and wealth will increase while the others will lose out. How far towards full integration do we need to go before people notice it?

I can add to this one! I went to see them years ago in a friendly against Millwall and got Tim Cahill's autograph. He's done rather well since then. I also went to Crystal Palace v Notts Forest with at least two England players on the pitch, David Platt and Dave Beasant, who got sent off for apparently handling the ball outside the area and the sub had to come on for the penalty which I think was saved. I wouldn't be surprised if others here saw the match as well, it was a real cracker.

Long time no see (I live across the water so barely connected) but have just found Lambeth have allowed a couple more signs to survive on their estates, these two a mile from you in West Dulwich (near enough for me). http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7231/7280397002_50bb6fa83a_n.jpg http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8153/7280399346_c40f75cbdf_n.jpg Otherwise I haven't stopped collecting, and completed all known examples in London and the home counties. Lambeth have begun removing these now from their estates, apparently the only speed limit with its circle still on has gone now and I have the only known picture of it. But if anyone's spotted anything I've missed tucked away in the back doubles always add it here.

You have asked the right question for me as I have done it a number of times in the opposite direction. The best rule is keep it simple. Get on the A205 at Tulse Hill and stay on it until Clifford Avenue, Sheen. Then stay on the major road as the A205 turns right at the lights, go straight on into Richmond and then follow the little one way to the left and then you hit a mini roundabout with Richmond Bridge to the right. Turn right over the bridge into East Twickenham and left at the first lights after going through the little shopping street. That leads to Twickenham centre via Marble Hill and St Margarets (about a mile), drive the length of it through a few sets of lights and the shops till you reach the main lights bang in the middle of Twickenham. Then you turn left which is the road following the river and will lead you into Teddington although when you get to the crossroads at Ferry Lane the right turn gets you into Broad Street which is the very centre of the shopping bit, but basically every road on the right beyond Strawberry Hill gets you into Teddington. If they're not digging up the road at Richmond it's not always bad but know what you mean, if you want to avoid it do as suggested and stay on the A3 at East Hill junction and use Kingston Bridge as it is a faster road although a bit further. I'm sure I've repeated many earlier replies but as I can do the route in my head and see all the shops and junctions I hope I've added some features to guide you so you know you're at the right spot once you leave the South Circular. I drove through Wandsworth yesterday between Ham and Clapham and was clear in the middle of the afternoon (there and back) for the first time in my life, and besides Clapham High Street I hit no traffic at all either way. I am still pretty amazed and hope you have the same experience.

skidmarks Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > > These guys on this site have a thread somewhere in > their forum listing where all these old signs > are. > > http://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/ I know, I wrote it >:D<

Preservation is a last resort and many signs are already in museums, but that would be like putting a lion in a cage in a zoo. It's not where any belong. The Court Lane sign is the north end by the park where it splits in three at Calton Avenue.

No problem Anna, you were correct about me complaining about the paper using any old junk except my sign story but was not having a pop at the site at all. Now what on earth is the old signs replaced headline about? Something tells me that's a little photoshop creation although I have come across many real headlines almost that naff they wouldn't all have been in the one paper or they'd have gone the same way as the gun. Got me for nearly a minute though before the penny dropped.

Thanks tasty_snacks. Dulwich Village only has two left (from five in 2008) and the one on Court Lane really needs a clean as covered in moss. I clean all the ones I can reach but not possible for the high ones. Unlike two hours for a no entry (the brushes cost me ?2 for the lot and paint was already in my garage) it takes ten minutes to wipe moss and mud off with a damp cloth. And yes, they not only are far better made and designed than the new ones but give us over 40s a link with our childhood. The government's line that removing text actually makes them confusing is the biggest pile of doubletalk bs I've heard in a long while. As on direction signs you only want the places (many which were removed were not even replaced so people will guarantee to be confused) and information signs the symbols were mainly retained but lost the text. And adding that is confusing? A definite case of spin at the highest level. I only discovered recently the new designs in 1964 were mainly chosen to pave our entry into the then common market by bending to the homogenic mediocrity that covered the continent. Why have quality and style when you can be like everyone else?

annaj Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I had some tools nicked from my garage along with > next door but didn't consider calling the papers > > David, I don't think anyone called the papers. I > think a local journalist just picked up the story > from the forum and ran it. > There seems to be a feeling that this is the forum > trying to gain publicity, which I'm sure it > wasn't. As buggie already said, a forum as popular > as this doesn't really need to drum up interest > through the SLP. > And when someone has been threatened, even if what > you say is true and it is a common occurance on an > internet forum, it's a bit rude to suggest it's > all attention seeking isn't it? Sorry Anna, my sarcasm and irony clearly ended in a different galaxy from you, I was taking the pee out of the newspaper. Why you thought I was accusing the forum of setting the whole thing up is a mystery to me as that never occurred to me at all.

There was a guy who did this for hundreds a time on the underground, approaching other religious Jews as a good excuse to be trusted as he was as well. He carried it on for months before finally being caught and convicted of fraud earlier this year, these people plan their stories and modus operandi and treat it as a career. Better to never offer a penny to any stranger who approaches you full stop as it's highly unlikely to be genuine. The same goes for those awful people who stop you in the street for charity who also make a nice living from it. Just because some of the money goes to charity (not all as they get well paid from part of your donations) they are no different at all and should also be banned and made illegal.

Hello Barry, and thanks for offering the service. I collected Edmondson tickets till the final day (South Merton in your region) in 1988. If you know of any knocking around you'd be remembered in my prayers! I knew all the staff in Dulwich and south London generally, and was a huge selection of old colour pre-1977 tickets in all three stations I was generously given whenever I turned up with my bag. Whenever I passed a station for years I'd pop in and say hello and many staff were there 20 years later including Greenwich. One of my friends now is a station manager I met in 1990 or so and there are not actually that many enthusiasts working there, most saw no interest in the actual history and it was just a job to them. I would have worked as a ticket collector but when I needed to they'd just removed the Edmondsons and had no reason to any longer. Those were the days.

Bloody Hell. I had some tools nicked from my garage along with next door but didn't consider calling the papers. But it's a sad day when they interviewed me and the council about their pulling up all the old signs in Lordship Lane (er, at their request) and didn't use it but consider it newsworthy to report what is a regular event on every forum in the world. Does that mean if I say something rude (and presumably get banned as a result) I'll stand more chance of getting in the SLP? What a country...

Another reason we need a forum like this in each London area. I'm mature as well (age at least) and single and were it not for the fact it can take me less time to get to Birmingham (120 miles) than Dulwich (15 miles) I would turn up as well. I can do it now and then but wouldn't wish that trip on myself or vice versa long term. My first girlfriend was in Blackheath but I was a lot younger and fitter then and there was no congestion charge either. I wish I could drum up enough support for a do up this way but the key here is you already know each other so meet as friends even if never met in person. Going in cold is just like every other planned event and totally painful.

I wish you luck keeping the service. Although I only have a very poor train service north of the river if I lived in a BR area and trains actually ran every 15 minutes or so I would use them if they went where I needed. They bang on about getting people out of their cars (not sure why though) and then one by one dismantle the public transport system. I collected the old train tickets and know a number of services that closed while I did so. I found a cache of them stored in the closed office at Wandsworth Road from the old East Brixton which closed in the early 70s. Our local Primrose Hill could serve thousands of commuters in Camden but as it was on another little loop they hated routing trains there and although it retained a booking office was reduced to two trains a day. The old trick is they make a station impossible to use and then apply for closure from low usage. And when I had to go to New Cross recently considered taking the train and what? It's suspended. As long as public transport is run for profit this will always happen and a national system where the busy lines support the quiet ones is the only way to keep a proper system, and the buses. I'm no way Labour but public services are an exception to the free market as they are a natural monopoly and can only run properly if remain so.

It just shows if enough people ask enough councils sooner or later one will get a result. Fingers crossed the pair of old signs in Sydenham will be repainted along with the one on Lambeth Bridge. Interestingly I was told it costs an arm and a leg to do so but having done so myself with one slung out by a council do wonder why. Now recently I found possibly one of only two working old no entry signs in Britain my near to local library. It wasn't obvious as you can see as the paint had worn off the words but the shape pointed me to it. http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3306/3494558038_d5a9b876ce_m.jpg Being close to me and easy to fix I called both them and the much further Hackney council about a small speed limit on a now closed road. They ignored me but the library replied instantly and were only too pleased to have me paint it. I went there yesterday and this is how it looked after two hours. http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2465/3578260659_52bee9ac62_m.jpg There are tens of similar signs around London that can have the same treatment and they have the resources but is the exception to repaint, we are lucky they even keep them at all. But kudos to Camden and Kingston councils who have done a lovely job on theirs and hopefully Lambeth and Lewisham if all goes to plan there. It's our history and should never wipe out all traces of the past in the name of blind policy.

I must pop in here, Julian Richer was one of my best friends for ages, and started selling hi-fi from home at 13. He proves the point if you sell good stuff cheap and look after your staff you will do well and I bet he hasn't suffered much from the credit crunch. He should now be giving lessons to others in how to do the same as he has, it's very simple. If you treat the customers and staff like friends rather than enemies they will look after you. I've worked in other shops and the attitude is rarely the same as his.

zephyr Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Pretty sure that the one at the bottom of Lordship > lane is. I think there is also one at the top of > Lordship lane. Yep, too late there as well since my second visit a month ago recently documented. I'd not be surprised if they're going for the lot and to address Huguenot and others, when you're lost all you care about is a sign, not the colour or font. The fact many are not even replaced shows a retrograde step. Does anyone against them really mind a few blue signs knocking around, they probably didn't even notice them until I pointed them out.

A few updates as well as editing the first post to correspond with replies received. Despite an email assurance that Transport for London were in favour of preserving historic signs, (presumably by Boris as Ken removed most of them when he arrived) it is they who not only took the ones out on the A2214 staggered junction but at least two more along Lordship Lane. This is a wholesale act of contempt for what were perfectly adequate signs for over 50 years and can all be painted to look like new. There are now only two when I last visited a month ago, Grove Vale and Court Lane. It may already be too late to save them but anyone who cares about keeping the village atmosphere enhanced by these signs should write to [email protected] expressing your opinion. The two arguments I received against keeping old style signs can be answered in two parts. Firstly as I well know myself, when you are lost all you care about are whether there is a sign, not the colour or font. Secondly many removed (I have a full list) were not replaced at all, just leaving people to guess. An old direction sign has to be better than none at all.

Just a little update, after one of these chaps stood in perfect condition where I used to live till a few years ago and I passed it regularly, something stopped me from taking a photo until the time had passed. Thanks to days online and an email enquiry I finally got one more, not just my first old warning sign but the one I missed at home, albeit missing the triangle. http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3519/3260882574_eae639c8d6_m.jpg Anyone over 40 will remember when these were all there were, and as far as I know there are none in London since I missed one by weeks in December round Surbiton. The sign with the triangle in Belmont Hill Sutton is a copy so not included although the pole and triangle are original. Now if anyone with sharp eyes knows otherwise although it's unlikely it's not impossible one is still lurking deep in London's backwaters, the one here was in Hertford and on a private estate, and officially the nearest to London in existence, unless, as Esther said, you know different. I can't offer a prize but they all go in my book and will be preserved in history unlike the three I missed this century. I still need a whole sign if possible although I will probably have to go to Suffolk when I do get one if I don't discover one closer.

I'm considering moving south, we've got nothing like this north of the river, your little community may be unique in London altogether as the Surbiton one is like a cemetery. Maybe I'll make the trip over for one one day.

My memories go back to the late 80s when I collected the old type tickets stopped in 1988. Southern Region used to do the old two part returns to Dreamland Margate with one half used for entry, the other being handed back home. I got a few in Peckham Rye and elosewhere, and knew staff from Kent to Bucks who often worked there over 20 years and all knew me. If any staff are still there from that era and remember a little guy with black hair and glasses asking for used tickets, it was me I knew in particular the ones at Deptford (Dave), Greenwich (Charlie) and all three Dulwich stations which had some of the oldest tickets in use on the region but I didn't know the names of the staff there. I also remember clearing out most of the supplies at Penge just before they went over to the current rubbish they call tickets. Happy days!

Just for the picture over the river, our house prices have not dropped. Not a pound or Euro. Not in the cheaper areas or the posh ones. Our newspaper ads still plug 3 bed semis in grey suburbs for ?330,000 just the same as at the peak, so presumably some remote places have dropped a lot to change the average but not anywhere popular. I presume Dulwich is the same although when I was looking 15 years ago I found it to be the best value area of all so probably relatively still is. If you drive a few miles to Blackheath it's back to the maximum but I looked all over London and only ended up back here as Putney proved just beyond my means after losing a property at the last minute there. Blackheath however was way off the radar. With all the tricks the government are pulling (sorry, the bank of England is independent isn't it) they are stringing the boom out endlessly by artificially lowering interest payments (that can't last 25 years can it?) and shovelling our cash to mortgage firms supposedly to lend to buyers but being spent on bonuses. The conditions that fuelled the credit/debt mountain are now being increased to deepen the hole even further, which explains why there has been no price correction north of the river at least.

It's called email tennis dc (by the way I had a very happy childhood as I grew up in the best decade in history in a very nice area so 1968 is a year dear to my heart). First TfL tell you one thing, Southwark pass it back to them and now you predict TfL will lob it with backspin to Southwark again. You can see why I need the media to help here as if you're working solo you get the major pee taken at every step. But it's not Boris though as Ken removed the lion's share in 2000 as soon as he arrived. The only way we'll know who pulled the signs up is to catch them in the act and tickle the soles of their feet till they confess who gave them the orders. But as long as one lot agree to keep or replace them it's not that important as I suppose they're really all in it together.

I publish all my books with photobox and the price has crept up from ?25 to ?30 since I started, and have already given away a few promotion copies of others, and of course the BBC is a very important customer. I am packing my spare copy now and having it taken there tomorrow or saturday, good thing you pointed it out. Meanwhile I have informed TfL that despite their policy to look after old signs in situ it was them who removed the Dulwich four (very much like a miscarriage of justice to me isn't it!) so what the heck are they up to? Actually I explained that the sensible thing to do following their stated policy is to keep and repaint the remaining signs and if possible put the others back if they still have them. If this can be done once then who knows what they will do elsewhere. Only one result is needed here for victory as it will mean I will still be able to revisit my childhood as will everyone else in London over 40 or so. I've learnt a heck of a lot from this, as I had to study all the legal material and arm myself with the facts required in the face of opposition. The fact I am legally qualified as are my parents helped of course. It's one thing persuading a council to do anything, but if they try and claim illegality you are stumped unless you know they're wrong. I literally now feel like I'm 8 or so again when I see an old sign as it takes me back 40 years to when that's all there was around. And when I'm in an unfamiliar area and need directions I'd never have noticed whether they were old or new as far as being able to read them is concerned. They all do the same job and it's just the new ones are better at higher speeds which is fine. But up to 30 it really makes no difference to legibility at all.

Good point, they did ask where they could get hold of one but clearly went straight over my head. They cost me ?30 you know!