Kingsbury David

Yes I did, and they just said they wanted one of my books so I sent them the website. I don't know if they've bought one but they are clearly interested. Let's hope as any media coverage will help my cause a thousandfold.

Credit and apologies where due, I just got a reply from Southwark who say the three signs removed in Lordship Lane (two by the roundabout and one at the south end) are not their responsibility but TfL. I didn't realise they covered more than major roads but now I do. Here is a quote from an earlier reply to a similar message from TfL: I realise how important it is to preserve those parts of our capital's history that distinguish it from so many other cities. Please let me assure you that where possible we will always try to preserve historical street furniture on the Transport for London Road Network. We would only remove it should it be damaged and need replacing. If anyone else would like to add their support for them to stop while the ones in Court Lane and Grove Road are still there (as far as I know, they are moving very fast) you can email Gemma Jacob on [email protected]

I have currently just become involved with my local one to preserve the old road signs, and as Southwark have just decided to remove theirs, about eight around the village that served the area well for over 45 years rather than do as a couple of places have and refurbish them is pointless and takes away the character of the area. There are two now left, if anyone agrees with me and is going to the next meeting please raise it for me there. I did email them but had no response (surprise surprise) or from any other besides Transport for London who added their support if you want any backup. If they can be stopped in their tracks to keep the last ones and do them up it will be a consolation goal for history.

A few sensible places near me have solved the 'all day parking' aspect by banning parking for an hour in the middle of a day to stop station users parking there. It costs no one a penny and besides losing an hour of parking a day means everyone not there to go to work can use it as and when they want. Parking meters used to be for shopping areas in central London only and anywhere else is just subsidising the council tax for people who have already payed it somewhere, and road tax, and tax on petrol. If the population of the country wasn't shooting up so fast (it was 55 million for many years and now heading for 70 if it carries on as it is) then no one would be having this conversation. Many semis are being demolished near me to build soviet style flats and each new resident has the same amount of road to park in as they did before. This is part of a much bigger picture affecting London and the rest of the country. Charging people for what they have paid for already and have no choice to do is simply extortion.

Thanks to this forum and a couple of other people I have now just found this collection today to add to the other two I got last time. http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3257/3225243953_1be08c0d61_m.jpghttp://farm4.static.flickr.com/3379/3226099224_5a2ba8815d_m.jpghttp://farm4.static.flickr.com/3456/3226048016_589c1f566b_m.jpg Kirkdale, Court Lane, Sydenham Road, http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3344/3226047410_a0cc028daa_m.jpghttp://farm4.static.flickr.com/3463/3226047064_56aa957532_m.jpghttp://farm4.static.flickr.com/3255/3225183817_d3aa0a4aef_m.jpg Sydenham Road, Crystal Palace Parade, Malpas Road, Brockley Cross Sharp eyes will notice something rather sad here. Court Lane is the only one in LB Southwark. I saw four shells today, Lordship Lane on both sides and a couple of others as for whatever reason Southwark have decided from November to rip them all out. I think it's wrecked the atmosphere of the Village and it wouldn't kill them to wipe the moss of the last one, which I did on another recently and took me all of two minutes. Shame on them for behaving no differently from the crooks who steal them for scrap. My research also took me to the Department for Transport site which preserves fingerposts by law and requires repainting every five years. Some are listed and means it's only a small diversion to include these as well. My campaign continues and have a proposal at a council meeting on Tuesday which regardless of the result will show the seriousness residents associations take this issue.

I don't live in the area but am affected by these as are all British drivers so entitled to my comment. I echo LuvPeckham. Paying extra to park just means everyone still has to struggle to find a space as there simply isn't enough room in busy areas, they just have to pay for it. There's barely a main road in LB Barnet without phenomenal charges and I just shop elsewhere now as many others do. You are recommending what turns areas into ghost towns and one more nail in the coffin of our quality of life. Just say no.

Well I was really hoping to report good news by now, but as I mentioned it on LBC now may as well share the latest developments here now although none have actually taken place as I write. I had two press interviews as a result of my posts here, but after time has passed neither has produced an actual result, although clearly it's not a time dependent issue, excepting the fact Southwark whipped 2/3 of the signs on the A2212 within about a week and if the article/s do not get used fairly soon may be too late to generate any interest before the inevitable event otherwise. The major purpose of persuading the council enough people were interested in history, and if over 40 like me a link with their own childhood, and reconsider their decision to change these signs for new ones. I've already posted a picture on the other thread I wrote what is possible, where LB Kingston restored two signs in Surbiton to new condition. It can and has be done, and Camden have done the same in Hampstead. With these precedents Southwark have no need or excuse to do what they are doing but realise the old signs are doing no harm, directing the traffic perfectly well, and if minded like other councils many are removed and never even replaced. So at no cost a sign can be left to direct traffic with a coat of paint every 20 years and provide something from our past to look at as well. I am spreading my works far and wide, and have made an official appeal to have London's last red triangle warning sign (in a conservation area) replaced after being removed a few years ago in perfect condition and before I got round to taking it. Needless to say it was not replaced with a new one (a good thing as they are hideous), and I have said to ignore any costs as it would be worth every penny from my own savings. I know three places so far who keep them including one who sells them online and two museums. I'd say the museums would far rather get one back on the road where they belong than keep it there like a fish out of water. Meanwhile my latest method of colouring in an A-Z map and covering all likely roads has found two on my first outing route so a clear success. I've also discovered each borough is responsible for their own signs with TfL taking the major routes, which is ironic as they are the only council to reply and say they are in favour of keeping them. Unfortunately on their creation in 2000 the first act they did was to remove every one they could find so is now an empty gesture as they have none left to save, but a good piece of supporting material to use for the other London councils who will otherwise wriggle and blame central government. The signs are still legal and there is no penalty for using them unlike pounds and ounces. Basically if I end up with one sign guaranteed as far as it can be saved from a death sentence my job will be done. We currently have around 60 left in total in and around London, and about ten went in the last year so will not be long if something does not happen in time to stop the enforced exodus.

Thanks cate, all contacts gratefully received. I am calling a specialist publisher and the library who have one other of mine already, but that is certainly one I didn't know of. Now if I'd done this ten or twenty years ago can you imagine the hundreds that would be saved for posterity? I was lucky to get so many now considering though. Any book requests just send me a pm, dogs and humans.

woofmarkthedog Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I'm really lovin them yellow and black signs David > you should do a book ..seriously...it's hip ..it's > nerdy but we would buy it...I will look out for > these ........I'm always on the road...keep up the > good work ..yeah and there is one up the palace > way...will check it out... > > Wooof grrrrrrr Thanks Woof, already done, and edition 1 arrived today. It costs an arm and a leg but I always sell them at cost price, and can post them anywhere in the UK on receipt of a cheque. The current one is going to be about ?30 though especially as I just added a few pages (yes, found some more signs!). It's hardback, glossy paper and pretty impressive. As it should be at that price... I have used an A-Z map and coloured in the roads I've checked, and today was the first time I went on a blind search and found one only a couple of miles into the journey, and found one by chance yesterday on a road I thought I knew well. There are clearly far more than I thought and certainly not all already recorded online, even in London. Let's keep our fingers crossed Southwark take some notice as Kingston have now fully restored two lovely yellow ones in Surbiton so can be done. How could anyone want to change this one? Most I know like this one have not even been changed, they just take them away suddenly and that's it, including the one at the end of my road before I knew its value. http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3426/3190989485_dc87da6227_m.jpg

Thanks Simon, I asked the photographer as well but no reply yet. I'll add that tothe list now, I'm not at all familiar south of the river that way.

I hate double replying but I have sources all over London and continual updates. Firstly this appears to be the sign in Lordship Lane, present in October Lordship Lane. Secondly I have been told the cluster of signs extends to the borough of Lewisham, with many more around Forest Hill and Sydenham. This is only slightly less foreign to me than Baffin Island, and only a little easier to reach (it's not the distance, it's the journey) but if anyone can provide locations once I have a few I should return and catch the two in Dulwich I missed on the way. If they're still there. Interest is gradually being generated and am now involved with the Enfield Society as it has the most signs in London by a long way and they are now being removed very quickly unless we can persuade them otherwise.

Thanks everyone. I have found a percentage of photos I've taken of areas is different each year and marked the ones where they have. It's amazing how things do change and I was started off in 2002 by a book Golders Green now and then doing that very thing. I didn't know the new signs were going to be like the 'Slow down 30 mph' ones, ie virtual, so will be able to change by adding new places or removing right turns etc whenever the routes become different. I have a pretty comprehensive collection of current signs already which was what made me spot a few old ones and then run around doing them all once I saw one had disappeared months later. I just received a reply from TfL saying they were committed to preserving old signs as well, I said that's interesting as three had gone I knew of in the last week. I'll be interested to see the response, if any. Judge, that's a great find. It takes me ages to get southeast of the river and then can only be done weekends when there's no congestion charge. I used to go to places like Greenwich and Blackheath a lot before that and had to stop as soon as it came in. If anyone can take a photo of it now as local and post it in the thread then at least it'll be recorded. When I came down last week I had a few on my list (half gone as it turned out) and you can understand driving over 20 miles for one sign becomes less economical for the stragglers. There is/was a set in Bexleyheath and one in Woolwich as well I can post details of if anyone is around there and wants to see them. Grove Park had a lot as well and someone recorded the removal in photos, which was very sad to see especially as one was still looking like new.

Huguenot Wrote: " but if > they're occupying key signposting areas, then they > need to replaced with effective signage! Stick the > old ones up somewhere else where they don't need > to work ;-)" No argument there as I said, but I've just been going through the files and found a number which have been removed (in perfect condition) were not replaced at all. Surely it's better to leave a bit of history around which does have a function and costs nothing besides a coat of paint every few decades than just pull them out like weeds?

I don't know about the merits of which minutiae warrant discussion here or not, but wish there was such an active forum where I live. I looked for one after joining here and all I could find had about a year's worth of messages (can you recommend a good au pair, plumber, good school without a waiting list etc) on a whole page from people spread all across the area it was meant to be aimed for. Maybe people north of the river just don't want to talk to each other. I've lived here all my life and that's probably the case.

Sorry I missed you mrssmith, I was replying to something on an earlier page and didn't see you till I'd pressed enter. I've always been fascinated by property and half my photos have been houses I could only see again by taking as I'd never be able to afford one. I noticed none of the ads in the June links were still up and I managed to read a cached version, so that looks like either someone else is marketing them or the original agents have gone a bit cold on them as all the links had been broken.

Thanks Muttley and Sue, I took many of these for granted myself as they seemed so normal, but once I saw one had gone I realised how they needed to be preserved and did all I could to catch what was left. Only today I passed another one in Cockfosters which had gone in the last few weeks and hope the efforts I'm making now may just turn the tide in time to save a few long term rather than know they are all on a death sentence. I've collected all my life and gives me an aim and direction when I am, and of course try and get everything in a set if possible. My house is full of stuff as well, 30 year's worth of train tickets from the ticket collectors, hundreds of model cars and 60s memorabilia from my childhood. The signs are the last remaining 60s memorabilia around me and that's how I'd like to keep it. Just spotted I'd forgotten to reply to indiepanda. I didn't know about Aviva, and glad to hear it. While every other British firm had been hoovered up (starting with Access) and changed colour, name and form, Aviva was the rare one who actually just changed its name to reflect new business. I think had these not happened extensively our economy would not have fared nearly so badly now as any profits made would have been injected back into the economy. The doors and windows are now all open and the heat is all going out.

The trouble is all the companies (nearly all abroad) who take over ours want their presence over here. Abbey will soon become Santander and Cellnet is already O2 and One-2-One T-Mobile. London power is EDF and so on. The reason we will be hit the hardest now economically is we barely own any of our own businesses and hardly manufacture a thing either so all the money we do generate will go abroad rather than support our own economy. There used to be some pretty draconian laws to stop this back in the 60s and now I can understand what they were there for. Too late now, the bolt has been shot. Oh, and on the signs please could anyone who gets a chance take a photo of the sign on Lordship Lane near Forest Hill if it is still there as I was going the other way on Saturday. There are none online and I only heard about it from this thread. The way things are going this may well be the last chance to get it on record.

In case anyone's interest has been raised in this area here are my collection Flickr old signs And also a few hundred here Sabre gallery There are at least four dedicated sites to these signs with spotters covering the British Isles.

That's a bit of an enigma- if the private vehicles were restricted there'd be no need for the signs at all! I'd agree if we were talking in the late 1960s but as the remaining signs have directed traffic without causing enough complaints to be instantly removed for fears of legal action I can't agree with the relatively small difference old signs at narrow and slow junctions provide compared to the new ones. I'm not expecting them to be placed on the South Circular but a few local roads where the traffic is slowing down to meet a major road and the road opposite where you turn left or right is perfectly adequate as the traffic is slowing down or stationary when it passes them. I've read all the DfT documents and they seem to have a more overall deference to Europe than wanting to improve visibility etc., and a final point is that if the fingerposts are still allowed across the country and used daily by millions of drivers the blue and yellow panels must be dramatically better. And had private transport been restricted as Ken wanted I would have no photos of more than a few signs, in fact hardly any of anything. The complex journeys I make would stretch transport companies to their limits believe me!

I didn't go on the bus, but followed the 13s around on Finchley Road before they were one of the last to go. I was very pleased to see some of the last on the 9 and 15 routes when I was in Aldwych recently, as much as anything else the buses and signs are the last connections with my past and would hate to see them lost altogether.

The only thing in its favour is unlike most new buildings it is modern. But besides that it looks like a high security block. All it's short of is the razor wire and lookout towers. I thought this type of place went out with the 70s. By the way, very few properties are architect designs. Most cookie-cutter rows from Victorian onwards are designed by the builders and made to be as cheap as possible for the maximum markup. You can tell an architect designed building as it stands out, whether or not you like the look of it. If it looks like a wall with windows no architect has done more than certify it won't collapse.

Transport for London have just removed two of the three pre-1963 blue direction signs on the A2214 crossing Lordship Lane. These are fast disappearing in Britain and despite working perfectly well where they were many councils across the country are doing their best to remove perfectly good solid signs because someone 45 years ago said they should. I have written to the council asking them to put a preservation order on the last of the three on Grove Road on [email protected] and anyone interested in national as well as local history should add their voice now in case you help save the last part of Southwark's sign history. These signs can be painted and kept for over 100 years if looked after unlike the new ones which have to be replaced when they wear out. http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3185/3163803834_6a8c8a7ca7_m.jpg I see these vanishing wherever I look having compiled photos of all within 20-30 miles of where I live in the last year. I see no point for change for the sake of it and that is what they are doing. Even if you don't care personally, it is never good to lose anything permanently, at least Ken Livingstone managed to keep two Routemaster buses after abandoning the others (after saying 'Only an idiot would get rid of the Routemasters'). He said it. There is no similar movement to keep these signs until people make their wishes known to those who make the decisions. This sign may be gone next week otherwise. Edited- Southwark replied to say all the removed signs are not them but TfL (the ones who told me they want to preserve old signage that is). Complaints to [email protected] if people care about preserving a little bit of history.

I'm sure many are stolen but the last of these was made in 1963. The machines were changed for a different type of smooth surface, followed years later by a reflective one. The equipment for these styles is long gone from the modern manufacturers and the few that were replaced by similar ones use reflective smooth signs rather than raised lettering. Rose, the post type signs were exempt under the 1963 legislation so they are never going to be under threat, they are found across the whole country so in no danger of any loss. These look very smart when new and one in Surbiton in far worse condition was painted recently by Kingston council. The new ones wear out after a few decades and can't be renovated and are simply replaced. The old ones can easily last 100 years plus if regularly looked after. http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3164/2624495553_496afaf073_m.jpghttp://farm4.static.flickr.com/3024/2757502544_fd0723ab29_m.jpg

The one which was actually there is this chap on Grove Vale. When I crossed the roundabout to probably Lordship Lane I saw the remains of one on each side which had clearly gone within the last few weeks and was absolutely gutted. The one in West Norwood is on the main road just before the one way system at the lights. http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3185/3163803834_6a8c8a7ca7_m.jpghttp://farm4.static.flickr.com/3096/3162939113_68ec10b4e9_m.jpg

Today showed the precise reason why I am doing this project, to preserve history. I know some people really don't care but that's no reason to let our past vanish forever. I got there from Camberwell and after sign one was taken went to sign two to find the 'East Dulwich' bit floating in mid air. And the one opposite had already just been replaced although they hadn't taken the 'East Dulwich' bit away yet. I didn't waste my time taking those two to see how the council had destroyed perfectly good signs. I am emailing the council to ask them to keep the last one before it's too late, and hopefully the more of you who join me they may even listen. Local views may count but only if they hear them. Thanks for all your help and the good news is the one down the road in West Norwood is still there at the moment so didn't come back with just the one.