silverfox

Time to bring back stocks and lock these pests up (Goose green roundabout would be a good place).

That's nothing. I bought a colander from the DKH store - liquids run right through it!

I agree. What you say is quite sensible. The G20 meeting is showing the strains. The Brics are asking why should they pump billions into the IMF to help out European countries that enjoy a better standard of living than their own people?

This is what I make of it: He was being defensive because the rest of the world are giving him and his cronies a kick up the ass and telling them to get it sorted as they are endangering the world economy.

"Frankly we are not coming here to receive lessons in terms of democracy or in terms of how to handle the economy, because the European Union has a model that we may be very proud of." Jose Manuel Barroso, President of the European Commission, speaking at the G20 Summit, responding to critics of the eurozone's crisis management with growing signs of impatience among non-eurozone G20 nations. Make of that what you will. http://news.sky.com/home/world-news/article/16249150

Well Huguenot, I must confess I find you something of an enigma - perhaps it's something they put in the food out there in Singapore that affects your reasoning? "I sometimes wonder if you can read Silverfox. Read what Peston says again - he says it is most likely that markets would respond positively. The rest of his note was about an unlikely alternative outcome..." Huguenot, the positive response lasted until around lunchtime BST on Monday and the unlikely alternative outcome then clicked in. "...Anyway, the fact that you refuse to see a distinction between reckless government borrowing and foolish banking activites is neither here nor there. Whilst the Spanish government is administering the bailout, it is not a Spanish government bailout..." I recognise the distinction but consider it irrelevant. Spain has had to go cap in hand for a bail out because it couldn't afford to bail out the banks itself. If you consider me too illiterate or too xenophobic to grasp this issue then have a look at Ed Conway's concerns at Sky Business in his article 'Five Nagging Questions About The Spanish Bail-out': "...What are the actual details? All we know, so far at least, is that Spain has requested (and the European authorities have been minded to agree to) support of up to ?100bn for its banks. This is, it?s worth saying here, a bail-out, despite the insistence of the Spanish authorities that it?s not. It is a country seeking external support to keep their economy afloat..." (my highlighting here) http://blogs.news.sky.com/therealeconomy/Post:36cc2ebe-d677-4710-8c95-55b2330b68cf "...Conditions on the Spanish government would be equally pointless. All the government austerity strategies are already in place, are sustained, and have been more dutifully applied than in most of the Eurozone, including Germany..." You, and El Pibe, may well be correct on this point. However the message that has been sent to the Greeks before their election (and the Irish and Portugese) is that bail-out loans can come without stringent austerity penalties and Troika representatives controlling your budgets. This will only help the anti-austerity parties in Sunday's Greek election.

It's not that simple El Pibe and playing with words or using euphemisms does not disguise the fact that this money has been lent to the Spanish Government and so is really sovereign debt. Robert Peston put it thus: "...It would be surprising if markets did not react positively to the news that the eurozone will lend ?100bn or so to the Spanish government, so that it can strengthen its financially overstretched banks. But since investors had been discounting such a rescue, you never can tell. They may choose instead to focus on the considerable uncertainties and negatives associated with the bailout. First Spain which is already struggling to reduce a substantial deficit would be adding debt equivalent to 10% of its economic output or GDP to its already sharply rising national debt. Second by bailing out banks through semi or total nationalisations, the government is enlarging the perceived liabilities of the state, by assuming responsibility for banks' huge liabilities. Third, if the bailout loan ranks ahead of existing private-sector loans to the Spanish government*, there is a risk that Spain will end up paying more to borrow from conventional commercial sources - which is precisely the opposite of what it wanted. So although Spain hopes it will avoid the stigma of being classed as a failed economy by allocating all the bailout funds to its banks, it may not enjoy that luxury..." (* ie, if the money has been allocated from the ESM (rather than the EFSF) it would be senior to private sector loans - that is, the ESM has the first call on repayments before any loan repayments to the financial markets. The position is unclear but may compound problems for the Spanish Government is raising future finance) http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18385411 Edited for typos

Sorry El Pibe, I don't accept that false distinction. A bail-out is a bail-out and I can't see a difference between Ireland's reckless banks and Spain's reckless banks. Strikes me this was a panic measure before the Greek election that has possibly made things worse.

I'm trying to understand what's gone on with the Spanish bail-out. I realise the Eurozone had to act swiftly because of Sunday's Greek vote, but the way it's been done, and the lack of attached austerity measures, has now given carte blanche to Greece, Portugal and Ireland to demand that the conditions attached to their bail-outs be renegociated. Very puzzling

Alan Medic Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I think you misunderstood PR also, Mr.Fox. Yes Alan, I think you are correct. Sorry PeckhamRose. I'm not sure what the answer is if you can't reason with these people or shame them. I note that wardens issuing instant fines hasn't gone down well in parts of Wales with the wardens being accused of being on commission.

Fair enough paragon, I now understand that you were not being supercilious. I apologise for my unfair criticism. However, I would question whether there is actually a rational way to communicate with such louts.

paragon Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I think you lost the moral high ground when you > said "Don't you have bins where you come from?" Further to Tallulah71's post, what moral high ground are you speaking of paragon? There is no moral high ground - morality has bugger all to to with it. These people have no concept of civic responsibility because they have been dragged up. Many years ago I lived in Tottenham (for example) and regularly saw mothers buy children ice lollies, tear the wrapper of them and throw the wrapper on the floor. These children will now be about 25 years old. If they had such examples from their mothers what can we expect from them now (and the lessons they will pass down to their children)? Paragon and PeckhamRose, you are both half-wits to come out with such (Knee-jerk) PC nonsense

" I know I shouldn't have said what I said to him..." Not only are you correct in your reaction, if it wasn't for brave people like yourself anarchy would reign. Well done (even if not appreciated by badly brought up litter lout)

Only 10 days to the re-run of the Greek elections Huguenot. Get your incontinence pants ready (Greek neo-Nazi MP slaps female rival A Greek neo-Nazi MP slaps a female politician during a heated TV debate on the election. He is now being hunted by police) http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/world/europe/article3438646.ece

"You're a pretty good case in point Silverfox. You can't tell the difference between the EEC and the Euro... " Let me guess Huguenot, is one a (noddy) currency that half of Europe is trying to change into Sterling and US Dollars before they become completely destitute?

Huguenot said: "...The electorate should use their vote to elect representatives who can make better and more informed decisions - they shouldn't be dictating the outcome..." I understand the point you are trying to make about competent representatives elected by us to make decisions on our behalf. Unfortunately we can no longer do this as the solution to the crisis would appear to be a fait au complit, ie full political and fiscal union. Now whether or not this takes the form of a Federal Union headed by Germany or some other form, the fact is political and budgetary decisions will no longer rest with individual governments. In short, we would be electing representatives who would be dictating to us. Only a fool would allow himself to become part of that Alice in Wonderland dream like world.

The success or failure of the European experiment will ultimately rest with the people. Lord Owen's proposal of a referendum in The Times today is well worth reading as a means of resolving the continent?s crisis while preserving Britain?s self-governing status. http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/opinion/article3437756.ece As The Times leader itself states: "...Europe?s crisis is not only about technical flaws in the adoption of a single currency. It is more fundamentally about the incompatibility of the different models that EU governments have been pursuing while claiming to be engaged in a common endeavour. Lord Owen maintains that countries that see their future as part of an ever closer union should be free to pursue that goal. But those who favour a union of self-governing states should have their sovereignty respected while being able to remain in a restructured single market. The eurozone crisis has exposed three stresses. First, monetary union cannot work well without political union, which requires, second, a solution to Europe?s democratic deficit. That leads, third, to the inevitable conclusion that this country will turn its back on Europe. Lord Owen suggests a way through, in which Britain can remain part of a renewed single market without submitting to the demand to be part of a single government. Monetary union requires mechanisms to transfer funds from states that are flourishing to those that are struggling. It also requires a Europe-wide bank regulator and centralised bond issuance. Fiscal union therefore requires that decisions over budgets be taken away from national parliaments. Budgetary decisions not taken at the national level must be accountable to the people of Europe through democratically elected representatives rather than government appointed bureaucrats. Dealing with Europe?s democratic deficit then runs into the problem of British sovereignty. If the integrationist project is about building institutions over the heads of national electorates, British governments have the obligation, as well as the right, to resist..." http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/opinion/leaders/article3437850.ece

Methinks Englishness is probably more a state of mind than an objective fact. There's many a person born in England (including, as far as I know, Ed Milliband) who can be said to be English but who have very little English blood in their veins. The history of these isles makes the English a very mixed bunch

Interesting times. Francois Hollande wins the French Presidency. Early projections in Greece's parliamentary election suggest the two main parties that back austerity measures have suffered dramatic losses.

...or haven't done

My wife has a fancy box of chocolates from the chocolate tasting club. It includes a coffee bean wrapped in chocolate. At least I think that's what it's supposed to be. I think I'll just keep my concerns to myself.

Nor have I, I'd be a bit worried about the hygiene factor. However, it didn't stop Peter Jones in Sloane Square from selling a particular blend in 2008 for ?50 a cup for charity. Not sure Anderson's in Bellenden Road would have the nerve to try selling coffee at that price though. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7340005.stm

I'd expect Kopi Luwak coffee for that (made from coffee beans excreted by civet cats, 'cat poo' coffee)

If your name is Rachel Khoo of The Little Paris Kitchen count me in

That East Dulwich North/Peckham South area sounds a bit iffy