silverfox

Technically speaking, under Greece?s constitution, a referendum requires approval by parliament before it is officially declared by the country?s president. Costas Gioulekas, of the conservative New Democracy party, has not said whether his party would back a ?yes? vote.

?This will be the referendum: The citizen will be called upon to say a big ?yes? or a big ?no? to the new loan arrangement,? Papandreou told Socialist members of parliament. ?This is a supreme act of democracy and of patriotism for the people to make their own decision ... We have a duty to promote the role and the responsibility of the citizen.? (Quoted in The Times today) On the one hand I think this is fair enough. It's right that the people should have a say about years of austerity and suffering that will affect them. However, whatever the outcome they will suffer it nonetheless. The big issue though is what will be the question asked in the referendum? If the gist of it is: Do you accept the deal to write off 50% of our debt with the conditions attached? Whether they say yes or no here years of austerity lie ahead and the consequences for the Euro of a no vote are potentially catastrophic. Should Greece leave the Euro and return to the Drachma? A yes here could be total withdrawal, or withdrawl from the Euro but remain in the EU. But it will still result in a default and years of austerity ahead for Greece and a melt down of the Euro? It's all a bit catch22

Oh Oh ... a referendum in Greece is now being proposed. I must admit I didn't see that spanner on the horizon

I can't help feeling a little sorry for the way he met such a grisly end. Those pictues don't do his captors any credit.

According to the BBC the cost of evicting the gypsies/gypos, travellers/pikies from their squat could amount to ?18m so far over the 10 year battle. That's a lot of hip replacements, children's nursery places, free dental check ups etc etc ... I've listened to half-wits quoting some EU nonsense about how this is a cultural issue - so the offer of permanent bricks and mortar housing is unacceptable to travellers blah blah blah ... another site in Liverpool is too far away... If they are travellers help them to move on. What's wrong with that?

17 - failed. The book must be wrong.

Nelson putting the telescope to his eye-patch?

As titillating as this appears, you have failed to explain what the Myelin project is, and why it is more deserving of our support than any of the other (millions of) charities out there.

Slovakia says no. Okay, partly a vote of no confidence in its own government. But more importantly Slovakia is asking itself the same question as Germany is asking - why should we bailout other miscreants, and we're one of the poorest members. And that's not why we signed up. Some people on this forum like to think nationalism is dead, an out of date idea from the late 19th early 20th century. Really? Watch and wait. Edited for rogue apostrophe

Don't forget foie gras for Horsebox

What have I said that you disagree with or find simplistic DaveR?

So are you saying the EU and the Euro are the victims of the excess that led to the crash in 2008 (the Anglo Saxon problem as it was called at the time) rather than the political hubris of ambitious pan european politicians and the inherent flaws and contradictions of the EU/Euro?

Fair point Huguenot

"...The European Central Bank (which administers the Euro) is not on the brink of anything - it's probably the strongest bank in the world. That's the problem with talking to you about anything - you just make stuff up and keep on lying..." You haven't read the article have you Huguenot otherwise you'd realize how ridiculous that statement is. I never said the ECB was on the brink.

I think you're mistaken on your second point Hal. The many-worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics is only concerned with a single universe, not multiple universes.

That's better Huguenot - I can almost hear the dusty cogs grinding into action. "...Like voting reform before this, the importance of ideas such as economic convergence are like rubber bullets on the waste drum of your imagination.." Funny how 99% of Britain agreed with me. Now, may we have the benefit of your wisdom on the big story of today? Euro bank on brink as debt crisis spreads across continent France and Belgium battle to save continental lender Dexia, as fears begin to grow of a delay to next bailout payment for Greece http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/business/Economy/article788329.ece

Maybe this thread is a bit too high brow for you Huguenot. nothing I have said is controversial. The markets have already factored in a default from Greece. many commentators recognise that the EU cannot continue in it's present form. I have not said the Euro is dead. The question is whither the Euro?

Talk about head in the sand. You cannot keep bailing out countries indefinitely. At some stage it has to stop. Greece is on the verge of complete social breakdown. There are only two possible solutions. Cast some of the weaker members adrift or go for total fiscal union where unelected bureaucrats tell you what rates you set your taxes at. It must be nice living in your rose-tinted world Huguenot.

MP, this isn't schadenfreude. There is no gloating. Unless you've been on a different planet since 2008 we have a very serious problem on our hands. It's no use bleating about how the Greeks don't pay taxes, like to retire at 55 etc, all this was known before they became members. We are now talking about writing off 50% of their debt. Don't. Not one more penny, cent. When they can't feed themselves you'll be surprised how readily the Greeks and unions will drop their demands, nepotism, corruption etc. We can then send in food parcels until they learn to get up and do a fair day's work for a fair day's pay and pay tax for the luxury of doing it - like the rest of us. So forget bailouts - only then will the Euro have a chance of still existing in 2012.

The edf has gone very quiet on this issue. Serious problem folks. My view is Germany's agreement to the next tranche of the bailout for Greece will not help matters. The issue is no longer an economic one. Politics is now killing the Euro. A member country cannot be seen to be jumping ship. Sadly Greece, having prostituted itself to the Euro, can demonstate until it is blue in the face. The EU piper now calls the tune. Edited for typo

Well it does strike me that newtoedul is not actually new to this area. What worries me about such facile questions is would you move to an area on somebody else's recommendation? What happens if they do and don't like it - are they going to sue? Caveat emptor

Sorry Maxxi, but I cannot understand the thumbs up. It is a cheap cartoon and you are showing your ignorance by endorsing it. Yes, there is a purity in mathematics up to a certain level. After which it becomes so theeoretical as to verge on pure theory - ie no more reliable than pure belief, religion, theology. If you have to postulate 11 dimensions in order to explain the possibilbily of multiple universes you have a serious problem. The theory may be correct, but as nobody can test it it cannot be a science.

Are there any houses/flats to rent on that street? If so, rent one for six months and answer your own question.

Slightly unfair Huguenot, although you paraphrase me correctly. Katienumbers was correct in the sense that I am one of those people who read New Scientist in the hope of making myself sound clever. Science for the people. I could never get my head around all those high-faluting mathematical formulae. In fact, one of the reasons I hope that neutrinos do exceed the speed of light in a vacuum is that I can finally give up trying to understand Einstein's theory of relativity after 20 odd years of trying.

Ig Nobel prize awards (annual awards that recognise research that ?cannot or should not be reproduced" The honours are given to science that ?first makes people laugh and then makes them think?) Medicine Prize - shared by Dutch and Australian scientists - What happens to decision-making when you really, really need the loo? Scientific conclusion - people make better decisions about some things, and worse decisions about others. People who hold off the need to urinate are also better able to resist the temptation to spend money ? suggesting that avoiding the loo before a shopping trip might save you money. Chemistry Prize - awarded to a Japanese team for their patented invention of an alarm that wakes people up by releasing a pungent wasabi spray. Physiology Prize - awarded to an international team for an important paper published in Current Zoology entitled ?No evidence of contagious yawning in the red-footed tortoise, Geochelone carbonaria?. Peace Prize - won by Arturas Zuokas, the Mayor of Vilnius, in Lithuania, for his innovative and wholly effective crackdown on illegal parking. Mayor Zuokas took to the wheel of a tank, and ran over offending luxury cars. Biology Prize - Darrell Gwynne and David Rentz were honoured for their discovery that male buprestid beetles sometimes mistake beer bottles for females, and mate with them. Physics Prize - awarded to a team led by Hernman Kingma, of Maastricht University, for determining why discus throwers get dizzy, while hammer throwers do not. Psychology Prize - went to Karl Halvor Teigen, of the University of Oslo for research into understanding why people sigh. Literature Prize - John Perry, of Stanford University in California, for developing a Theory of Structured Procrastination. It says: ?To be a high achiever, always work on something important, using it as a way to avoid doing something that?s even more important.? 21st First Annual Ig Nobel Prize Ceremony Harvard University, September 29, 2011 http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/science/article3179644.ece