keano77

Compromise Sephiroth, compromise. It?s not that difficult. I see the French are busy re-labelling their champagne as fizzy wine for the Russian market. Principles are expendable if people are going to lose money.

Equivalence

Sephiroth Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > "he isn't ignoring it - he is saying it was never > going to work, " > > I should have worded this differently - it was > always going to present the problems that UK govt > are now claiming to to be surprised by. It was > never going to work the way the UK govt seems to > want to think it would I understood you meant that

Or, the Protocol could be ripped up and we start again as the EU has never understood NI. Isn?t the marching season around the corner?

Well why did the EU sign it?

Alan Medic Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > keano77 Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > Interesting article from an EU point of view > > More like a factual point of view. The UK Govt. > wants to wriggle out of what it agreed to when > they 'got Brexit done'. > Possibly their plan all along. It's a shameful > place to be in for a once well respected country. > Now it's just run by charlatans, the worst of all > being the PM. Factual up to a point Alan. What Bruton conveniently ignores is the Protocol isn?t working. It was intended to protect the single market and peace in NI. However it is inflaming tensions there. Interestingly, Bruton recognises in his penultimate paragraph that although it won?t appear in the Treaty, the Protocol is also partly about keeping the UK tied to EU rules as a form of control over a sovereign nation as well as a deterrent to other EU members not to consider jumping ship.

Interesting article from an EU point of view

Oh dear, the beginning of the end? EU threatens to sue itself for going soft on strongmen leaders European Parliament says it will hit Commission with legal action unless it triggers clauses linking EU cash to respect for the rule of law https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/06/10/eu-threatens-sue-going-soft-strongmen-leaders/

Sephiroth Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > "For all the preparation, paragraphs coloured in > with highlighter pens etc the EU is now > jeopardising the peace process. " > > This is a really dumb statement amongst many dumb > statements - Brexit meant this, and we told you. > You wouldn't listen then and you won't now. EU > hasn't forced UK to make any of the decisions it > has - UK has done that in full knowledge of what > it means. > > Own > Your > Shit > > FFS (Munching on a Cumberland sausage sandwich slathered in Coleman?s English mustard)

Yes, but at the risk of upsetting anyone else ... For all the preparation, paragraphs coloured in with highlighter pens etc the EU is now jeopardising the peace process. Staged photographs can be deceptive.

diable rouge Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > The Gov didn't 'find' themselves in a situation of > sign the deal or leave with no deal, they > willfully engineered it. They could've asked to > extend the transition period and given themselves > more time to negotiate - Dominic Raab take note, > that's actually what being pragmatic and flexible > looks like, especially in the midst of a global > pandemic. But no, that wasn't deemed Brexity > enough for the purists... The EU signed the deal and made it an International Treaty. They see the damage their interpretation and implementation of the rules is causing. Question: what are they going to do to minimise the difficulties?

diable rouge Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Not my problem > > Wow, just wow... Sorry to disappoint but I don?t have any control over what our Prime Minister says.

diable rouge Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Keano, name me one element of the NIP that the EU > has contravened. If you can do that then there > would already be a case for third party > intervention/arbitration etc, because there will > be a mechanism in the agreement for such a > scenario. And you can guarantee that if this was > indeed the case we'd be hearing about it non-stop > from Leavers. Instead we get constant gaslighting > about the NIP as if it's been imposed on us > against our will, conveniently ignoring that > parliament wasn't allowed time to properly > scrutinise it, which in turn was clapped and > cheered like performing seals by the Brexit > supporting press. > I am not sure the EU has contravened any aspects of the NIP in a strictly legal sense. Nor have I argued that is the case. But as the EU does like to hide behind legal contracts I would point out, with reference to Peter Lilley on Newsnight, article 6.2 of the protocol mentions that the parties would try to avoid controls at ports and airports in Northern Ireland. This clearly isn?t the case. Hence accusations of the EU?s rigid approach and intransigence and inflamed tensions that are jeopardising the peace process. You forget the EU also signed up to this protocol and so are jointly responsible for the tensions. > And what is this so-called 'bad faith'. What does > that even mean in the context of the NIP? Again, > give me examples instead of conjuring up > manufactured phoney wars about ham sandwiches. Try > taking a ham sandwich through US customs or a > CANZAC country and see how far you get. I don?t see the relevance of your North American example. You and I both know of many examples of businessmen frustrated by EU bureaucratic form filling for products they have been supplying to Europe for many years. Suddenly there are questions of bits of British soil on vegetables, apples grow on trees, trees grow in soil and so on. Soil that was perfectly acceptable on vegetables one minute became unacceptable the next because technically we were a third country. This is what I mean by bad faith. It?s over zealous petty officialdom. A rigid application of processes that lacks commonsense. Many a scoundrel hides behind the letter of the law. > > If you want actual bad faith or as is often the > case, downright lies, look no further than the > British PM telling a group of NI business people > that there would be no border down the Irish Sea. > Where's your outrage at that? Not my problem > > The problem is and always has been your British > exceptionalism, you won't accept the known > consequences of what you voted for... You call it British exceptionalism and yearn for closer ties with the EU as a solution. But that would tie our hands and prevent us doing deals with others. You can be sure trade deals with the US will be discussed with Biden and his team at the G7 this week.

j.a. Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > keano77 Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > > > On a serious note. The protocol isn?t working. > The > > problem appears to be the way the EU is > > interpreting and applying the rules. > > > > Peter Lilley, now Lord Lilley, was on Newsnight > > recently and said something to the effect that > > more checks were being carried out at NI ports > > than the whole of Europe for imports from the > rest > > of the world. Now I don?t know if this is a > fact > > and I might have misheard him correctly. > > > > Now, it is of the utmost importance that the > GFA > > be protected. I would propose that instead of > all > > the threats coming from the EU an independent > > International body and journalists monitor > exactly > > what EU officials are doing at NI ports and > > produce a report. > > > > The world can then make its mind up whether the > EU > > is taking the p@ss and just squawking for the > sake > > of it or whether it is fully justified in > > confiscating lorry drivers? ham sandwiches. > > > Do you genuinely believe that even after the NIC > was campaigned on by Conservatives, supported by > Leave, and passed by a democratic Parliament, that > somehow - somehow - it?s *still* the fault of the > EU? > Yes. They are acting in bad faith in the interpretation and application of the rules. Partly to frighten other EU members who are thinking of leaving (Poland is looking 50/50). > Mate, so many Leave bigwigs were *fully behind > this deal* (do I need to remind you of what IDS > said?). It?s plain that the said whatever they > needed to get it over the line, figuring they > could try and change things later (Micheal Gove > anyone?). You could be right here > > This deal was signed up to by UK Gov, and for you > to now say it?s the EU?s fault *entirely* is > utterly rancid. Let an Independent inquiry look into how the EU is applying the deal. What are you frightened of? > > Maybe the Protocol does need to be altered, but I > have no idea how you do that. Your flippant remark > regarding Irish Unification would run foul of > Poots and co. Agreed. > > Like many Leavers, you seem insistent on blaming > the EU for *everything*. It?s pretty sad to see. Not everything. There are many positives to the EU when they are not threatening and trying to blackmail the UK into submission. We?ve even allowed them to have an ambassador although the EU doesn?t qualify.

Sephiroth Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > You really are Johnson?s target audience aren?t > you > > Happy to blame others > Glib about serious issues On a serious note. The protocol isn?t working. The problem appears to be the way the EU is interpreting and applying the rules. Peter Lilley, now Lord Lilley, was on Newsnight recently and said something to the effect that more checks were being carried out at NI ports than the whole of Europe for imports from the rest of the world. Now I don?t know if this is a fact and I might have misheard him correctly. Now, it is of the utmost importance that the GFA be protected. I would propose that instead of all the threats coming from the EU an independent International body and journalists monitor exactly what EU officials are doing at NI ports and produce a report. The world can then make its mind up whether the EU is taking the p@ss and just squawking for the sake of it or whether it is fully justified in confiscating lorry drivers? ham sandwiches.

Morning Sephiroth. I see you?ve woken up and smelt the sizzling sausages.

Don?t agree with your point about the GFA Alan. Lip service from the EU as we saw when Ursula threw a wobbly over the Brexit vaccine. Good point about a United Ireland though. That would be a solution. Problem is who?d pay for it. The Republic can?t afford to pay. So between us Alan we?ve come up with two possible solutions in the space of a few hours which thousands of EU bureaucrats seem unable to do.

It?s a possible solution. It will be a matter for the Irish people and government. The suggested minimum corporation tax could cause much damage to Ireland. The government is already preparing the people for big tax rises to recover from COVID. And once the save the planet greens really get going people won?t have two pennies to rub together. There?s hard times ahead the the EU dominos are wobbling.

The Republic leaves the EU. Problem solved and they an feast on delicious British sausages.

Agree we should never have signed it. However it was signed and both sides need it to work. The protocol does not protect the GFA, that?s EU propaganda.The protocol is to protect the EU?s single market, its interests. The over zealous interpretation of silly rules is causing real damage to the preservation of peace in NI.

I agree that?s the EU?s spin on it. Problem is it?s jeopardising the GFA but the EU can?t seem to see that.

True

I think we all know that the constant threats coming from our ?friends? are about more than petty officialdom and whether our sausages contain horse meat or not. The EU are huffing and puffing in an attempt to stay relevant. ?Europeans agree on one thing: the EU is broken... ...New polling and research by the European Council on Foreign Relations (ECFR) found that the majority of those surveyed in France, Germany, Italy, Spain and Austria now held the view that the European project was ?broken?....? https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/europeans-agree-on-one-thing-the-eu-is-broken-d0z93p8jk I?m surprised to see that ?sofagate? is at the G7 and that the EU haven?t ditched her yet.

I see we?ve allowed their ambassador-ino to become a real man. Hope he realises NI is now the EU?s problem.

?... I note no mention of the social impact Brexit is having, in particular as Seph alludes to, Northern Ireland and the peace process...? EU?s fault. They?ll soon realise they need to row back. Risking re-igniting the troubles just so they can earn a few cents on a tin of beans (in the name of protecting the single market) shows political naivety. They?ll learn. Here?s a smiley 😐